Richdg

No he averages .61 points per game for his career-regular season numbers. But points is less important than goals, which is after all his job: scoring goals. In his 9 full seasons in the NHL he has 1 season over 30 goals and 3 more where he scored over 20. That leaves 5 seasons out of the 9 in his career he failed to score at least 20 goals. We know he doesn't hit, he doesn't play D, and it is 50-50 at best that you can call him a goal scorer. if not that, then what the hell is he getting paid to do? other than generate a lot of hate mail on the internet! LOL

Ksmith, yes we had guys hurt. Do you expect that to improve by using the same small, old soft players? it will not. Nyquist btw only played 57 games because he was in the minors, not because of injury. To expect Z, datsyuk, and franzen to play more than 70 games again is folly. Not saying they never will, but to expect it at their ages and history of injuries is bad. They will all continue to play less and produce less as they move through their mid and late 30's. Same is true with Alfie if he returns, which I hope he doesn't but fear he will. As a team we had 1, repeat ONE 20 goal scorer. Sorry but the D can only help so much in that regard. As a team we were 15th in shots and 16th in goals. We outshot some pretty good offensive teams like the Pens and the Caps. The pens were 16th in shots but 5th in goals. So it not like we didn't have our chances. We did. But taking a bunch of shots from 30+ feet away is not going to lead to a bunch of goals being scored, which is our norm. Just for reference, in 2012/13 with the same group on the BL we were 10th in shots and 20th in goals scored. fact is we are getting our shots, we are not putting the puck into the net. D is not responsible for that.

Top 6? Ok just some random numbers from the 2013/14 season. Rankings are just among forwards. 139th in Goals 112th is assists 335th in games played 102th in TOI/G 110th in face off win % 122nd in points 221st in hits 245th in blocked shots 289th in takeaways Those are top 6 numbers for you? Ok if you take the truly generous position that there are 180 top 6 forwards in the NHL-which of course is just silly, then maybe you could find some way to say Franzen is a top 6 forward.

ET, while agree that FA is out of whack, he wouldn't get multiple years. To many hits to the head for that now at his age. No upside to be found anymore.

There was a thing posted by Khan from Holland saying: he expects lots of trade activity to start at the Draft Prospects Evals coming up........ So we shall see. As for those that say we have to improve the D, yes we do. But the O wasn't any better. We were 15th or 16th in both last year. A year that we won 39 games! Less than .500! action is needed ASAP!

Back to the Franzen hate! LOL The other day, might have been over the weekend I saw a quote from Holland where he was talking about Mantha making the team. In the quote he said that Mantha only stays in Detroit if he proves he is top 6 worthy like guys named Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Nyquist, and Franzen. Think about that. Franzen as a top 6 forward? WTF?????? Go back and read through this thread, even those that defend Franzen agree that he should be on the 3rd line where he doesn't have to face the pressure. The fact that Holland considers a guy like Franzen a top 6 forward in the NHL is truly freightening! He is not a top 6 player, nor has he ever been one in his 9 year NHL career. It is thoughts and beliefs like this that have lead to the demise of the RW's. This is why we are now a sub .500 team-we only won 39 games this year! Let me ask a classic what if question. If Franzen was bought out-which yes I agree isn't going to happen, what type of free agent contract do you think he would get from other NHL teams? If he decided to stay in NA and play-I think there is a better than 50-50 chance he would go home, I can't see him getting anymore than a 1 year deal for maybe 3 million. 34 year old sub 20 goal scorers with multiple concussions are not going to get big time money or term. yet we are blessed to have him under contract for 6 more years!

Trading up this year doesn't help us much. this draft is viewed as a weak draft by all the pundits. Going through the guys available at the top, none of them look to be guys that are ready to play now. yes one could surprise or find themselves in the NHL early by being on a bad team, but all look like they need 2-3 more years of development. We need NHL ready talent now. Even mantha-someone he is older and far more ready than anyone in this years draft is only a 50-50 shot of starting in the NHL this fall.

Ok we all agree we need 1 or 2. heck even Holland and Babcock are finally talking about. Should have listened to us! We all have been talking about it for several years now....... Ok so who are the top RHed dmen? What would be list as the attributes? I will start with: Under 30, at least 6ft tall, at least 200 pounds, can skate, hit block shots, and score. Did I miss anything? So here is what I come up with as a shopping list. All numbers are based on 2014 season. Weber Nsh 3rd in points, 24th in hits, 10th in blocked shots-The Gold Standard Byfuglien Win 4th in points, 9th in hits, outside the top 100 in blocks Subban Mon 6th in points, 46th in hits, 59th in blocks Pietrangelo Stl 8th in points, 14th in blocks, outside the top 100 in hits Wisniewski Clb 9th in points, 50th in hits, outside the top 100 in blocks Niskanen Pitt 12th in points, 50th in hits, outside the top 100 in blocks Shattenkirk Stl 13th in points, 97th in blocks, outside the top 100 in hits Seabrook Chi 22nd in points, 20th in hits, 32nd in blocks E Johnson Col 26th in points, 44th hits, 49th blocks Green Wash 28th in points, 84th in blocks, outside top 100 hits Carlson Wash 29th in points, 5th in blocks, outside top 100 hits Doughty LAK 30th points, 19th hits, outside 100 blocks Demers SJ 36th points, 83rd blocks, outside 100 hits Voynov LAK 37th points 27th hits, outside 100 blocks Schultz ED 38th points, 85th blocks outside 100 hits Franson Tor 42nd points, 1st in hits, 77th blocks Faulk Car 44th points, 89th hits 93rd blocks Trouba Win 52nd points, 87th hits, 42nd blocks Gilbert Flor 58th in points, outside top 100 in blocks and hits Hamilton Bos 66th points, outside 100 hits and blocks Jones Nash 67th points, 100 blocks, outside 100 in hits Letang Pitt 77th points, outside 100 in hits and blocks Myers Buf 78th points 70th hits, outside 100 blocks Gudas TB 83rd points, 33rd blocks, 2nd hits Stone Phx 85th points, 34th hits, 71st blocks Lovejoy Ana 95th points, 7th hits, 25th blocks hamonic NYI 96th points, 91st hits, 37th blocks Petry ED 100th points, 18th hits, 39th in blocks That list is 28 names long. those should be our targets. IMHO I would focus even further down to only the guys that make the top 100 in all 3 categories. That list is down to just 12 guys: Weber, Subban, Seabrook, Johnson, Franson, Faulk, Trouba, Gudas, Stone, Lovejoy, Hamonic, and Petry.

BULL SH!T!!!!!! Those that think that was a dirty hit, grow a pair! That was a perfectly fine hit. Didn't leave his feet, no elbow, went straight at the guy. Not Abby's fault that the dumba$$ dropped HIS HEAD in the slot area. As a defender you are SUPPOSED to level offensive players in the middle of the ice WITH the puck to protect your goalie. This shouldn't have been a penalty, and the Czech player was a classic example of guys not knowing how to protect themselves. But then again we are talking about Europe and the wussified version of hockey that they play. LOL....talk about timing...... Prust does worse to Stephan and is still playing in the game.

Dabura.....The idea that Chelios could teach Neal how to not be a D-bag is kinda funny. So is the moral outrage about having such players on the team BTW............ Yes Holland has been sub par the last few years in terms of going out and replacing stars. Not filling holes, which is what he tried to do. We truly need 2-3 top 6 forwards and 1 true top pair Dman. There are very few of either option in UFA anymore-a trend that will continue, and it takes 3-5 years for draft picks to develop if they ever do. Tht really only leaves one option left: trades. Holland does need to get off of his A$$ and make some deals. Not kick the tires, but nothing fight. That is not an option anymore. We need talent and we need now. Yes some deals will fail to work out, it happens. Some will work. As long as it is more of the later than the former, we are ahead.

I made a list of RHed Dmen we should be taken a long look at and trying to get. So now I will do gritty forwards. None of these guys are goons. They a big guys that can skate, hit, and even score. Guys that play 10+ mins a game, some in the 15mins range. All are under 30, all make less than 4 million per season, and none are going to break the bank to pick up. So here are the guys I would take a long hard look at: RW's: Brouwer Wash 6-3/215 Setoguchi Win 6-0/200 Jones CGY 6-2/210 Kassian Van 6-3/215 Smith-Pelly Ana 6-0/225 LW's: Martin NYI 6-3/210 Greening Ott 6-3/210 Bollig Chi 6-2/225 Clifford LAK 6-2/215 Kulemin Tor 6-1/225 Maroon Ana 6-3/230 C's: Wingels SJ 6-0/200 Jenner CBL 6-2/205 Hanzel Phx 6-6/240 Smith Ott 6-2/215 Eller Mon 6-2/215 Nolan LAK 6-3/225 Setoguchi and Kulemin are UFA's, so we could just sign them. The others need to be traded for. I would LOVE to see us grab 2 guys off of this list, or find 2 guys that play the same type of game as these guys. Guys that skate, hit, play hard every shift and could net 10+ goals. We need the grit and size, as Boston clearly showed us.....

As always, for whom is the question. Do we need Neal or guys like him on the team? hell Yes! Do I want neal for the price of Nyquist, tatar, and Sproul? No. That is the rate for a guy like him. Big, tough, physical, and good for 40 goals every 80 games. Good contract. Now Neal gets mentioned because he has a tradable contract. But one of the Pens biggest problems is: they lack size and toughness up front. Doubt they trade away their only player that brings those qualities every shift.

Dirty....letang. Some things. Last I saw, the media was saying the doctors think he had his stroke because he has a hole in his heart that never filled in when he grew up. That would be a potential long term thing. That being said, over the last 4 seasons, Letang has averaged .74 points per game. That is great! The bad is, he has missed over 1/3 of the games over the last 4 seasons. he is a modern day Coffey. great O, no doubt. But he doesn't really play D. He isn't physical either. All that being said, this is the guy that Holland will pick up........

There is lots of smoke about Ott moving him. Thoughts? 1. Ott is cash strapped so i think he will get moved. 2. Spezza is 31 this summer, 6-3/220 RHed, C, great play maker, good scorer, and great at puck poss. He is not a banger. But he does use his size and strength to move through the D. 3. First glance, I thought no. But the more I think about it, he is the type of player I think Holland would go for. Fits our system well and brings more size and O to our team. 4. Think of a top 6 with Datsyuk, Z, Spezza, Nyquist, with Jurco, Mantha, Sheahan, and tatar fighting for spots. Not to mention Weiss and Franzen. 5. This is his last year-scheduled to be a UFA next summer. This will drive down the cost of trading for him. The rumor mongers are saying: NHL player, prospect and a 1st to get him. 6. Ott sucked on D last year. We have some pieces that we could move to make this happen. NHL player, 1 of: Tatar or Helm; Prospect: Ouellet or Mrazek; Draft pick: 2014 1st. 7. if we pick him up, then of course sign him to a 4 year extension. Takes him through the year he turns 36. Ok flame away.......

WTF? Both had better records, more points and are still playing in the PO's! That is BETTER than us. As for Babs, he is a great coach, has been a great coach, and will be a great coach. Be it for us, some other NHL team, college team, HS team, mite team, whatever HE wants to do. He has earned it.

Possible. But we know that we are losing a 80 point guy in Datsyuk by then, and Z will be 37/38 and a shadow as well. Which is the point. The only other guy that we currently have in the system that could be a big timer is Mantha, and he has yet to play a pro game. But regardless of which guys turn out or not, we have to replace talent that is already gone AND the talent we will be losing over the next 5 years, just to be a team capable of making deep playoff runs. For us to do that we need more talent than just the standard 7 picks in the draft each year can provide. We need to either pick up veteran players or more 1st round picks.

XM I disagree. 3 years from now when the young guys you mention are developed-which they will be, Datsyuk will be gone, Z and Kronwall will be in the late 30's-who knows how much they will still be able to produce, Franzen will be gone I HOPE! Ericsson mid 30's etc.... The point is, the young guys are not coming fast enough to replace what we will be losing, which in fact has been the problem the last 4 or 5 years. Even if all of the young guys that have already made it to detroit pan out-which history says they will not, none of them are guys any sees a future 80 point guy. Most look like good solid 2nd and 3rd line players. Guys that will score between 15-25 goals with 40-50 points per year. Yes every team needs guys like that. But it is your point per game guys that win cups. Or if a team is able to shut down those point per game guys.

According to what was posted on Bleacher report, from a bunch of different sources, Ovie had an MRI and there are NO torn legiments. Should be fine in a couple weeks. May play later in the tourney.....

DD, you have to remember 2 things about our drafts in the 80's, 1. there were a lot fewer teams, 2. We were taking risks on guys from behind the iron curtain that NOBODY else wanted to take. As for draft success rate, now those are correct. The thngs not included are: lots of undafted players and guys that have played longer than 15 years, which was the random cutoff I used. Do a google search on it if you wish, but the success rate of guys drafted, thatplay 200+ games in the NHL is about 2/3's for the 1st round, 1/3 for the second, and 1 out of 10 for all remaining rounds. That has been the results since 1990 until now.

Carefull Dat, you just painted a target on yourself. How dare you point out and say those things about Nyquist........

If I was placing a bet, it is 50-50 if we trade the 1st round pick this. I would not be surprised to see the 1st, and a couple of players get moved to pick up a top pair RHed Dman, something we need now, not 2-3 years from now. If we keep the pick, I still can't see a better option at 15 than Tuch. Still makes the most sense.

When Nash was being moved, nearly everyone on this very forum was hoping we got him. I was not one of those however. At the time of the trade he was and is a great goal scorer. The Rangers gave far less for him than we offered-which is the point I was making. For whatever the reasons a lot of players in all sports fail in NY. ET as for 9 calling you a fool, don't worry. He just likes to troll. If a post was up about the sun rising in the East, he was disagree and claim it was in the West.

One of the things that comes up on a regular basis is: "player X has to high of a cap number", when we are all playing cyber GM. So a question for you. Let's pretend it is the summer of 2017. Mantha has in fact turned into what we all hope he will become. He has just finished his 3rd full year with the RW's. he is a sturdy 6-5/230 and has scored 40+ goals in each of the past 3 seasons, hitting 50 goals 1 time. Mantha and his agent are now working with the RW's on a new contract. He wants a 8 year 96 million $ deal. The current Cap is 82 million. Do you resign him? State your reasons either way. My opinion: Hell yes I resign him! Players like that are not available on every street corner. We are talking about a guy that has proven he can produce at the highest level. At this point in time we are talking about a guy that is 23/24 years old and will be 31/32 when the contract is completed. The cap will continue to grow and his share of it will continue to get smaller. As other star players develop they will end up with even higher cap hits over the lifetime of the contract.

The draft is always a crap shoot. About 63% of 1st round picks make it, about 1/3 of 2nd rounders, and about 10% of all other rounds make it. There are 23 players on a roster. Over a 15 year period the best teams might have 15 draftees that turn out. This has been true in both hockey and baseball forever. Even now, we are all excited about our prospects in the system. But history tells us 2/3's will not make it.

Some forget that this was where we once were. Back in the early 90's we were one of the best regular season teams year after year. Yet we couldn't win the Cup. In comes Bowman, still didn't win it. Made a few moves, then we won. it took the correct balance of players, coaches, and management to win. Winning a cup is not something that is easy to do. But it is easier to fire a GM and coach than it is to fire 23 players.......