Richdg

Again we have no idea which players were offered or asked for. Just an opinion of a writer. Every year we hear of players available that "we can't afford" and then they get moved later for less than we thought. Nash comes to mind. Yet Holland seems to over overpay when he does make a deal: Legwand and Quincey come to mind. Maybe he just isn't good at negotiations. Who knows. Now back to some of the players being discussed. Would Kesler be an upgrade for us? Yes. He would be our 3rd best forward the day he arrived. Maybe more like tied for second. The same is true of Spezza. He is a better player than every forward currently on our team not named Datsyuk or Zetterberg. Both Kesler and Spezza are from a numbers stand point in the same class as Datsyuk and Zetterberg.

This little debate brings up the question that none of us know the answer to. What is the RW's goal for 2014/15? Make the PO's and keep the streak alive OR win the Stanley Cup? With the talent we already have we can do the first-make the playoffs. yes it would be a dog fight all year-just like the past couple, but we can do it. Now if the goal is to win the SC we need some major upgrades. Now back to Boyle. Is he a major upgrade that is needed to contend for a SC? No. Since we already have the talent to contend for the PO's, I just don't see the need to bring him in. As others have said, if the choice is playing youth or aged vets, give me the youth if making the PO's is the goal. If the SC is the goal, then we need to move some youth for proven stars and sign a top UFA or 2. I am fine with either option BTW. What I hate is half steps that really don't put us on either path.

Good, maybe he will trade us Carlson! BTW, don't feel to bad for Dan. He gets to spend the rest of his summer sitting on the beach in Grand Haven shining his SC ring and counting his millions. Don't be surprised if he lands a high profile job somewhere close to home.......

Kindl may get moved, but I think Lashoff will stay as the 7th. he is a decent 6/7th Dman and cheap. No need to move him. Just play him less. But again, Boyle just doesn't fit. yes I do see Holland making a move like him-thus my White reference from before.

Both are gone. I like Bylsma-Michigan boy. He will bounce back. Neither can complain much. The players have to play better than they did. Sometimes a new voice is what is needed. I blame MAF but we shall see.....

Just finishing off last year. What a middle of the pack blah season it was. We were 15th in O, 16th in D, and 15th in points. Our PP was 7th in goals scored, but we were only 12th in PK. As we all know, we are losing: Legwand, Alfie, Bert, Cleary, Sammy, and Q. Combined they scored 40 goals for us last season. That "production" needs to be replaced. Of course we spent 16 million to get those great numbers! Most if not all of those 40 goals can and should be replaced in house. If you take the numbers for Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan, Dekeyser, Smith, Glendening and spread their production over 80 games, you pick up another 25 goals. Weiss should be able to add 15+ goals. That keeps us even. But that is only middle of the pack. To be a solid top 10 O we will need to add another 25+ goals to our totals to do it. How important is being a top 10 team offensively? All 10 of the top 10 made the playoffs this year. As for the D again we were middle of the pack. 16th. To become a top 10 D we need to shave off 20+ goals based on this years numbers. How important is being a top 10 D? 9 of the top10 made the PO's this year,-only NJ failed to do so. Of the 5 teams still in the PO's, 4 were top 10 D's, with Chicago being the 12 D.

If Boyle is in Detroit, that means Sproul and Marchenko are in GR. How is he supposed to teach them when they are all in different places? Doesn't work like that. We need a true top 4 guy. No he isn't going to block any of the youth. 2 years from now-when Ouellet, Sproul, and Marchenko are out of minor league options, we have 2 Dmen in the mid/late 20's in Smith and Dekeyser, 2 guys in the mid/late 30's in Kronwall and Ericsson. That means we need 3 more Dmen at a minimum. There is plenty of room here long term. Holland needs to stop with the band aid approach and get real players that we can keep for 7+ years and build a team around.

Cool. I don't watch junior hockey. just check each teams websites once and a while. They still haven't unpdated any stats and had him listed as out since Dec 8 or something that.

2 years ago Boyle had 48 points, last year he had 20 points in 48 games, this year he had 36. The three lowest totals of his career, when he has played the full season (last year being the lockout). That is a negative slope for you stat geeks. He is clearly declining fast. At 5-11/190 and turns 38 this summer he is done or real close to it. SJ is a much better team than we are atm and IMHO he would really struggle trying to be a top 4 guy for us. His mins played per game have also been declining.

Spezza-like all of the great players in the league will never become a UFA. Ott is moving him because they are cash strapped. We are not. We can easily resign him to a 4-5 year extension. Now why would Spezza want to sign? What is his number and why does he wear it? BTW guys that score 30 goals in multiple seasons are premier scorers, which Spezza has done several times (4). Yes Holland had interest in Kelser, then decided not to pay the price to get him. That is passing on a player. Now we have no idea of what players were truely involved, but he did pass on the deal.

I call BULL SH$T! Maybe in your mind there was an issue, but when we picked up Chelly I was out at several sports bars in the GR area, and all were filled with very happy RW fans. There was 0 repeat zero worries about picking him up by anyone. In fact there was universal praise for Holland/Bowman for having the guts to do it.

Yes, but there is still a cap. There are better options to go after than him.

Little Tuzzi hasn't played hockey since December. he has an unknown neck/head injury thing going on. Haven't seen anything since january about if the docs have figured it out or not.

Not a fan of Boyle at all. I keep seeing White all over again. He is small, old, and isn't very good defensively-we were 16th last year in D. I do agree that he does fit Hollands patch and plug approach of the last 5 years or so. Same thing if Alfie returns. Those type of moves = another year fighting to just make the PO's are an early exit. At what point is winning the SC going to become the goal again?

One of the things I was thinking while watching the B's vs the habs was, Boston looked tired. That very much included iggy. Just didn't seem to have much speed/quickness in that series. At his age that could be the norm. if we were 1 piece from being a cup contender then sign him. We are not, so we are better off spending assets elsewhere.

This isn't about mantha and what I think he will/will not be. This is/was about if we as a team have one of the top young players in the league and he wants to get paid, do you pay him or move him. That simple. Could be a forward, Dman or G, doesn't really matter.

So if we develop a guy that produces like Perry, Getzlef, ovie, Weber etc...... you don't want to pay them? yes I do understand that premium players making premium money can cause issues with the cap. But I would not be one to trade away to level performers for prospects, unless we are a sub .500 team that needs to completely rebuild. That is what we are talking about. How pissed would everyone be if this off season Holland trades away Datsyuk for 4 1st round picks?

That is the point, anyone can be moved in the right deal.

DD, to be clear, you would trade or let him walk?

BTW nawin, you are arguing for something that doesn't happen for any RW not named Datsyuk or Zetterberg. The last time another RW forward played 20+ mins per game was 2002/03 and some guy named federov did it. Even Datsyuk and Z only get to the 20 min mark in about half of their seasons. A typical year has Z and D at about 20, then 3-5 more forwards in the 16-18 min range, which is fact Nyquist was at this year. he was 5th for us in TOI/game this season.

Ice time changes every year for every player. It is impossible to predict. yes if he was to play 20 mins per game he may get more shots. But that doesn't always hold true. The fact is Nyquist just performed better at the highest level than he ever did in college or the minors. Now some of that is the position change. Prior to this year with the RW's he was a C. For the RW's he played wing and was told to shot more. he did. However, history is filled in all sports with guys that had their best year-offensively in the first year. BTW there is nothing wrong with a guy that scores 23-26 goals over the course of 75 games. We need more that can do it. We had 1 guy that scored 20+. Holland has already talked about adding a top 4 RHed Dman and a top 6 scorer. teams don't give away those types of players. To get you have to give. Nyquist has what could be his highest trade value right now.

Anyone can be traded in the right deal. While I like what the young guys bring, if you can upgrade you do it. As for Nyquist it is a very real possibility that he just had his career year as a goal scorer. He scored 28 goals in 57 games with an 18.3 shooting %, which is very very high. Most of your best goal scorers are in the 12-13% range. This year he averaged 2.6 shots per game. if you do the math for 75 games at the 12-13% mark, Nyquist drops down to 23-26 goals for the full season. Sometimes you need to move guys when they are hot, others you hold onto. Which is he? No one really knows, but never rule anything out.

not a ;awyer-to damn many of those, just going by what Kaser has said many times. This is why last years guys where sent down during the year, never played for GR and where able to play in the PO's. Now if I am wrong, GREAT! would love to see him play. But don't think he can. Moving on......

Lets be clear about a few things. 1. Thee are tons of players in the NHL that if added, would make us a better team. Spezza makes us better, Kesler makes us better, Ovie makes us better, etc etc etc. 2. The RW's need to add 3-5 premium talents between now and the start of the 2015 season to become a SC contender. 3. Last season we where 16th on O and 16th on D. Both ens need to improve. 4. One thing about Kesler, Holland already passed on him once, then went out and overpaid for Legwand.

Not even close. Legwand for his career is a .59 points per game guys and makes 5 million. Spezza is a 1 point per game guy and makes 7 million. 41% more points per game/season. He is a primer offensive guy. Solid defender as well. Legwand isn't that good on O.