Richdg

There are many points and counter points being brought up. But let's go deeper and more in depth. 1. Franzen is a good deal at a 4 mil cap hit. Is that true? What other players have cap hits between 3.75 and 4.25 million? in no order: Hornqvist, van Reimsdyk, Voracek, Callahan, Dubinsky, Oshie, Stewart, Ladd, pavelski, Simmons, Bickell, Duchene, steen, and many others. Of the names listed, how many would you take straight up for franzen? All of them. 2. he plays good D. LOL Don't even know where to start with that one. he is terrible. 3. he can be a decent 3rd liner. Really? 4 million for a 3rd line guy? If he is on the 3rd, then who do we demote? Sheahan? Jurco? tatar? That's is our 3rd line. We need 1 or 2 top 6 guys with size and grit. If that isn't Franzen, then he has no home on this team. 4. For his career Franzen averages 26 goals per 82 regular season games. But he doesn't play 82 games per year. he averages 66 games per non lockout year. taking his goal per game average times 66 games is only 21 goals per year. yes those are averages, some years are better and some are worse. But that is what we are paying 4 million per season for. That isn't very much production for the money.

Shin.....Chara and Lucic say hello. Just because a guy is big and tough doesn't mean they lack skills. Hell Probert the all time heavy weight champ was a 20 goal per 80 games guy.

Franzen or Lucic. Which would you rather have? Money is about the same, goals per year is about the same. Franzen can't be Lucic and that is who/what we need. But we get to watch Franzen for 6 more years! Ok maybe 2 more playing then pay for him for another 4. That 4 then becomes 8.

Several things happened. 1. Less ice time. 2. Other teams adjusted to him. 3. he was shooting at a rate that nobody can maintain. Finished at 18.3%. Crosby and Ovie were around 13% just for comparison. He had to drop back to normal at some point. 4. Lines changed up again. 5. Keep in mind he isn't very big. Down the stretch play gets tougher and harder every game. I am sure he was a bit worn out.

Most seem to think D is the more important way to go. So the next question is, what are you willing to give up to get the D we need? We have 4 NHL caliber Dmen and 2 holes. DK needs a true top guy to work with him-thus becoming our top pair, that allows Kronwall and E to be the second pair, then Smith and someother guy to be the third pair. So at what price? A Greene or Fayne signing in UFA works to fix the third pair. Both are good sized RHed defensive Dmen that would allow Smith to roam more. It is the top pair guy that we need that will have to be a trade. No Q is not worth it. He is not good or even average. At 4+ million per year he is also getting expensive.

What silliness or is it being naive? Not sure. Bertuzzi and Moore anyone? What was Gordie Howe's nickname while playing? Elbows. Probert just rolled over in his grave once again. The Night of the Turtle. All are examples of class? No. All are examples of hockey. Always have been and hopefully always will be.

Those are great teams-in both ends. But which is more important? if you win a game say 4-1, what was the reason you won? the fact that you scored 4 goals or the fact that you gave up 1? yes tall grass stuff I understand. But there is a reason why in most sports people will tell you "defense wins championships".

lefty, the sad part is within a week the franzen supporters will be back taking about who he isn't that bad, the RW's don't just drop loyal players etc........ Some have been beating this drum for several years. he just isn't that good overall. Never has been. 1 great playoff run. That being said, Holland isn't the first GM that has been fooled. HS, what is the chance he stays healthy? he already has had 3-4 concussions, more will happen. This is part of the problem-he is hurt every year.

The reason I ask is because right now we don't have either. Nor do we have enough pieces to have both for a couple more years. So for us to improve-and maybe this is the better question, which do we spend our assets on? Do we strengthen the BL group even if it means weakening our forwards, or build up the forwards and play with what we have on D. Not an easy choice. For us to have a great D we need a true top pair guy. To get such a guy is going to cost several of our good young forwards. Just as an example....... The Kings call and offer up Doughty but want Nyquist, tatar, and Sproul in return. Would you do it? OR Snow calls and offers up tavaras for the same package. Now neither is going to happen. But I think you all understand the question I am asking.

The first question is Babcock. he has 1 year left on his current deal. Does he extend or is he going to retire/leave?

As we move through the PO season please post any rumors you come across. For example, Spector had a little thing a couple of days ago about the Kings. many expect some reshuffling if they are beaten in the 1st round. 2 of the names mentioned were Brown and Carter-neither has a NTC or NMC in their contracts.

shin, both. prior to this yer we left guys in the minors to long. But now we have major holes are are rushing guys-at least in theory. GR has largely been depleted of NHL ready talent. The guys that are left behind need more time. Yes Sproul and Ouellett should be good in time, but they need more time.

Kenny, move in before anyone in Washington thinks and steal ovie! grab Carlson while on the raid and we are nearly cup ready!

RW need 3 new players. A true top pair Dmen and 2 big tough/rugged wingers that can play the game. Not goons that can only fight and play 5 mins per game. But guys in the Matt Martin mold. a 12+ min per game guy, that is young and fast and good for 400+ hits per year. Now those guys are rare and expensive to get. But that is what this team need so bad it isn't funny. has been true for 4 or 5 years now.

A few things. I said at the time it was a bad trade, I still think that and I am not a Jarnkrok fan. The 2nd alone should have been enough or Jarnkrok alone. We overpaid. Now in this thread some are complaining about babs not changing the lineup et others are talking about him demoting Legwand. Both can't be true. Either he was making changes or he wasn't.

IIRC if we were trade Franzen and he retires before the end of his contract, we get hit with the cap penalties.

If the timing works out, he will come to GR. He can be a black ace and start to see what being a pro player is all about. Don't forget he needs to add some strength and weight. he is currently listed as 6-5/205 which is very skinny. It would be awesome if he plays in the 215-220 range next season.

Just an idea: UPGRADE over him. He isn't what we need-as you pointed out. There are only so many roster spots and if he can't be the player we need then replace him. That is how the real world works. Don't try, do or don't do. If you do, great we will keep you around. if not, then bring in the next guy. Pretty simple.

TBH I don't expect anymore than one "big" move, if that. Should we make more? Yes. But I would not bet on it.

Yesterday I was talking to a member of the Griffins management, he is the one that told me that. Now does playing in the NHL change things ref Dekeyser? No idea. Not a rules expert. Just repeating what I was told by someone that works there.

It has gotten to the point I really want the season to just end so everyone can take the summer to rest, recover, and heal up. The daily if not hourly medical reports are sickening.........

Hate? No. Honest dislike for his play? Yes. I don't hate anyone. But Franzen needs to go. I have been saying it for several years. He has amazing talent, but only uses it for 15 games per season. Anyone else performs like that at their jobs and they are fired. So why isn't he? Franzen isn't a young player that can get better, he is 34. He also has mental issues, has had 3-4 concussions, and a very long term contract. We have 1 more chance to fix all of this. We have 1 buyout left, and it has to be used this summer. No we don't have cap issues this year. In fact we have cap floor issues if we do buy him out. But over the next 2-3 years we have several young guys that will be pushing for long term big money deals. Do we really want to risk getting to the point where we can't resign a Tatar, Jurco, Sheahan, Dekeyser etc.... becasue we are short of cash due to Franzen's 4 mil per season cap hit? Hell no! In fact is Franzen even going to be able to play in 2-3 years? Concussion effects build up over time. It is time to cut bait. Using the buyout on Tootoo-who has 1 year left at 1.9 mil is a waste and does nothing for us long term. In both cases each player is going to get their money no matter what happens. Time to buy out Franzen and let him go back home to play in Sweden where he doesn't have to deal with the media/pressure/concussion issues anymore.

Join yes, play no. he can't play in the AHL playoffs because he didn't play in at least 1 regular season game. Silly AHL rule......

Petry would be a very good pick up. He would form a great pair with Dekeyser. Both are 6-3/200, both skate well, both can play a physical game as needed, DD is the LHer and Petry is the RHer, both have the ability to score 30-40 points from the BL. Those 2 as a pair may be better than Kronwall and E as a pair.

Looks like the 15th pick for us. Baring the greatest upset in the history of the NHL.