Richdg

Got to love how so many jumped up and defended jurco when he was about broken in half by a cross check. Oh wait........

ya, those 6 extra goals he has is worth the 2.5 extra million we pay him...... he isn't even going to score 20 goals this year. remember the beginning of the year, when everyone and I do mean everyone was bitching about tatar and nyquist needing to play, be consistent. No need to waste money and roster spots of washed up players. No matter how great they USED to be.

No he doesn't. Even though E-is primary partner has a positive rating.......

I don't understand why so many are so willing to bring back 40 year olds instead of playing the youth. makes no sense. we don't need Alfie back, nor cleary, nor bert etc..... we have a top line of Z-Dat-franzen for next year. we have several good young F's: nyquist, tatar, jurco, Sheahan and pulk that need to play. add in grinders like helm, abby, legwand if he comes back, Weiss if healthy, miller and glendening and we already have 14 forwards. We also have a lot of cap space. If spending the money and trying to add talent is the plan-I hope it is, then go after vanek-40 goal guy, moulson-30 goal guy, and Callahan-25 goal guy.

Yes +/-is flawed stat, I understand that and said so. but lets also look at it correctly. prir to becoming a "top pair" guy a typical Kronwall year was 30ish pointsand +7. Now he is a 50ish point guy with a - rating. He is getting more minutes, more PP time, and far more shifts with our top forward line. yet his D is worse overall. yes losing Stuart-who everyone agreed was a #4 Dman hurt. Kronwall is simply not a #1 guy. Even in this very thread others are talking about he needs to be paired with...... #1 Dmen don't need to be paired with others to be great. They are great and make others around them better. Kronwall doesn't. BTW, anyone who says, and I quote: "Quincey gets to much heat from fans on this forum..... wouldn't mind him back at a lower salary" has no room to talk about the quality of any Dman in hockey.

Now the point in what I posted above is, Howard is clearly a top 10 goalie. depending on the year he is somewhere between the 6th and 10th best in the league. The really isn't any debate about this. The numbers don't lie. Now is he having a bad year by his standards? yes. he has had a bad knee all year long. For the RW's this year, that is a broken record. But history says he will bounce back and have a great year next year. he is only 29, signed long term, and to date hasn't had his career year yet. In 2009/10, 2011/12, and 2012/13 Howard had save% of .920 or better and GAA's of 2.26 or better in each year. This year and 2010/11 his numbers are worse. There are only 5 other G's in the NHL with career save % better than .920 (Rask, Schneider, Bishop, lundqvist, and Thomas) and only 3 that have career GAA better than 2.26 (rask, Schneider, and Brodeur). That is it. 6 guys that one can say are better than Howard has been over their careers. That is a very small list. 1 of which is the greatest G of all time.

There is no true way to measure players or goalies. But the 2 best ways to measure goalies are: save% and GAA. neither is perfect on its own. So combining those 2 numbers can be effective. Now this will take time to type, but here we go. All numbers are the career numbers for every goalie that has played in 35 or more games this year. Save %: 1. Rask .927 2. Schneider .925 3. Bishop .922 4. Lundqvist .920 4. Thomas .920 5. Rinne .919 5. Luongo .919 5. Bernier .919 6. Holtby .918 7. Halak .917 7. Hiller .917 7. Bobvowsky .917 7. Howard .917 8. Varlomov .916 8. Miller .916 8. Price .916 8. Niemi .916 9. Quick .915 9. Lehtonen .915 10. Crawford .914 10. Smith .914 10. Anderson .914 Just for reference, Brodeur's career save % is .912. GAA: 1. Rask 2.15 2. Schneider 2.16 3. Brodeur 2.24 4. Lundqvist 2.27 5. Quick 2.28 6. Niemi 2.34 7. Rinne 2.36 7. Bishop 2.36 8. Crawford 2.37 9. Halak 2.38 10. Howard 2.40 11. Bernier 2.46 12. Hiller 2.48 13. Bobvrovsky 2.49 14. Luongo 2.51 14. Thomas 2.51 15. Price 2.53 16. Varlomov 2.57 17. Miller 2.59 17. Smith 2.59 18. Fleury 2.61 19. Holtby 2.64 20. Lehtonen 2.68 21. Anderson 2.76 22. Mason 2.82 23. Pavelec 2.96 Now, take those 2 lists, and average those together. here is what you have for their careers: 1. Rask 2. Schneider 3. Lundqvist 4. Bishop 5. Rinne 6. Quick 6. Niemi 7. Halak 7. bernier 8. Howard 9. Thomas 9. Crawford 10. Hiller 10. Luongo

I agree. In fact they are both paid like second pair guys. Top pair dmen make 6+ million each. If we found a top 10 RHed Dman to pair with dekeyser that would allow Kron and E to move back to the second pair. Make us a much better team overall. But those type of Dmen are very expensive.

151st. after tonight, a game that E was -4, he still has a positive +/-. think about that.

Jurco with ribs. Hope those are not broken.... that injury sucks 100% of the time.

Yes. he is a very good second pair guy. As of tonight Kronwall is 10th in points by Dmen. But he is 151st in +/-. yes I understand that +/- isn't perfect. But no one that is top 10 or 20 or 30 should be ranked 151st.

Tonights game was a good example of why Kronwall isn't a true #1 or a top 20ish Dman. he played poorly coming down the stretch and E was downright terrible. Kronwall finished the game -2 and E was -4! That is our top pair!

He may play. With the way our guys are dropping like flies....... Abby and Sheahan both played a game or 2 after their college seasons ended.

So..... cut/trade Howard and go forward with Gus-hurt again and mrasek-getting torched tonight. RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGGGGHHHTTTTTTT............

Ok a question for you all. if you were building a team in todays NHL with a cap, which way would you go? 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines OR 3 scoring lines and 1 checking line? if money were no issue I would go with 3 scoring lines. But there is a cap. Scorers cost more than checkers, be it in money/cap/or trades. So saying that, I would go 2 scoring lines and 2 checking lines. This would keep more money freed up to keep your stars on the team and thus allow you to keep a team together longer.

Ok how about some 2nd round C options: Kempe 6-2/190 LH maaaaaybe Bleckley 6-1/195 RH maybe Quenneville 6-1/190 LH Gersich 5-11/175 LH Kraskovsky 6-4/180 LH

Forgot a few: Martin NYI Perry Ducks Petry Oilers Ladd Jets

Not going to do every team. But here is a list of guys I like watching play: J Staal Krieder Gudas-TB Dman hanzel Ryan Kesler Carlsson-Caps Dman Weber Bergeron Backus Seabrook Kopitar Nichskin-Dal Neal Mantha-yes he is our prospect, but playing on a different team!

The question with Smith-Kindl as well, isn't talent. it is between the ears. But and always keep this in mind: D take longer to develop. Always has been the case. Why? Who knows, but they do.

Every fan base has biased opinions of the local players. Love em or hate em. 1 of the things that GREATLY helps kronwall is our system. We have a ton of defensive F's that help our BL a lot. Other teams don't play that style, and rely on their BL to do the job.

Silliness.

yes lets send one of our best players right now back to GR. That is a great way to build a winning club. Jurco is playing GREAT! yes he is young. yes he will make mistakes. But way waste money of a 40 year old? Pulk needs to come up and play a few games as well. Our 2/3 lines should be filled with our young talent. Put the 3 old F on the top line and the bangers on the 4th line. leaves the money free for real quality UFA's. as for the OP's original question, most of the RFA's will be around .8-1 million per. Dekeyser will be much higher. 2 years ago I said Abby and helm would get 4-4.5 million per year for the 2 of them. Don't doubt me on this. Dekeyser will get 2-2.5 million per for 3 years on a bridge contract.

You have to balance needs vs talent available. this year there just isn't many top C's available and very few top D. Most of the forward prospects tend to be smaller guys as well. yes we need a C. Most likely not one there for us. Same with D. As for forwards, we have a ton of the smaller skill guys, need more beef. Tuch fits the bill to a tee.

As you watch the game tonight, leep an eye on #7 for NJ. That is pending UFA Dman Mark Fayne. He is 27 this summer, RHed, 6-3/210 and would be a great UFA pick up for us to pair with Dekeyser. No he is not a great O Dman, but he is one of NJ's best defensive Dman. if we could land him for say 5 years/15-20 million that would be an awesome pickup.

HS, yes greene would also be a good pick up. In fact lets dream a little and sign Fayne and Greene. That would give us the following BL corp: E-Kronwall Dekeyser-Fayne Lashoff-Greene Almqvist Not bad. But maybe more important, this would free up Smith and Kindl for trades to improve the F group.