Richdg

While I like Miller not sure he was needed or where he is going to play. This makes about 15 forwards as of today and it has been rumored that Cleary and Brunner will be resigned. That makes 17 forwards. yes we could make a trade or buy a guy out. But there does seem to be a lot of avergae/below average guys on the roster eating up places and cap space.

When you say things like this, you really make yourself look foolish. 1 or 2 pr draft? LOL! I am not sure to debate with you or ignore you after that. That is so wrong it isn't even funny. But since you like to post I will answer. here are the 1st round stars out of each draft from 2000 through 2009. The drafts after that are in the still to soon to know grou. 2000: Heatley, Gaborik, Klesla, Hartnell, Orpik, Boyes, Williams, Kronwall-8 that really made it. 2001: Kovolchuk, Spezza, Weiss, Goc-4 the worst year 2002: Nash, Bouwmeester, Semin, Ward-4 the worst year 2003: (this years draft is believed to rival this draft) Floury, Staal, Horton, Vanek, Michalek, Suter, Phaneuf, Carter, Brown, Seabrook, Parise, getzlef, Kesler, Richards, Perry-15 stars 2004: Ovechkin, Malkin, Ladd, Smid, Stafford, Zajac, Schneider, Green-8 2005: Crosby, Ryan, Johnson, Price, Kopitar, Hanzel, Rask, Oshie-8 2006: E Johnson, J Staal, Toews, Backstrom, Kessel, Okposo, Giroux, Bergland-8 2007: Kane, van Riemsdyk, Voracek, Couture, Sutter, McDonugh, Pacieretti-7 2008: Stamkos, Doughty, Bogosian, Schenn, Boedker, Myers, Karlsson, Del Zotto, Eberle, Carlson-10 2009: Tavares, Hedman, Duchene, Kane, Schenn, OEL-6 That makes 78 in 10 years, or a 8 star per year average. Yes you get a stinker year once in a while and you get a loaded year once in a while-like this year. Of the names listed above, how many are under 6 ft tall? 1 or 2. Giroux is the only one off of the top of my head. The game is getting bigger and will continue to do so. yes a smaller guy can play, but the odds are very much against him. we need players with the odds in our favor that can become stars to lead this team over the next 15-20 years. Yes. I didn't even get to that part yet. Diabetes is something that robs many of their strength. In the NFL-where this is common, once a guy develops it, they tend to have very short careers. No it is not a sure fire kiss of death, and depending on what type of diabetes it can be controlled and guys can have long careers. But again, this is a very deep draft filled with talented players. Why should we take that risk? we need some sure fire home runs this year. Like we did in 1983. Yzerman, Ysebert, Probert, Klima, Kocur, Grimson all in the same draft. All forwards and as a group gave us everything a team needs: speed, skill, size, toughness, leadership.

Of course he has, and if he is honest he would tell you he has no idea on how things will work out. That is true of every prospect in every draft. No his dad listed about 210 wasn't fat, but he also wasn't much of a hockey player. I watch Tie play for years. Great fighter but that was all he brought to the table. Max is not as big as his dad nor will he be. Which is fine. In 5 years the chances are much greater that Mantha, Gauthier, Wannenburg Erne etc... will all be better players than Domi, which in the end is what matters.

That is always the trick. Mantha could be Modano or Klima. One I like the other not so much. Gauthier to me plays a game that could be Keith Primeau minus the fighting. But others compare him to Joe Thornton. Either of those work. I don't think that Gauthier is a guy that will be a 80+ point per year guy, more like 70 ish every year. 25-30 goals with another 30-40 assists. But he is also a very good face off man and plays great D. Long term he is also more affordable. There is always the great debate, is a team better with 4 superstars making big time money or 7/8 very good players making less, but having more depth? That debate will rage on.

So? Doesn't mean anything. His dad 15 years ago was a goon. Nothing more. Hell Grimson once won our hardest shot competition. he couldn't play either. Now again, I am not saying max is a bad player. he is a guy that is able to put up Hudler type numbers. 20-25 goals and equal number of assists. but that is not a star and we need stars. Max is the type of guy you put on a line to help the other 2 out. he is not a guy that can lead a line. Thinking other wise is trying to put a round peg in a square hole. We do the same thing now with Cleary. we use him and a top 6 power forward, but that is not what Cleary is.

Sorry don't see it. Watching him I see Tatar, nothing more. I undestand everyone has their personnel favs so be it. It he is our first round pick it will be bad bad pick for us long term. he s not the type of player that is going to carry a team, like first round picks should from time to time. That doesn't mean he can't play. I feel the same way about Rychel (spelling). Not a big fan of his either. I watch him and see Cleary. No that isn't terrible, but I expect a lot more from first round picks. BTW John, I get that you have mad man love for Domi, but he is not his father. He is listed at 5-10 and we all know teams never lie. But him at 210-220 pounds will be fat. Go look at Lapointe his last couple of years. There is such a thing as to much weight, and 220 pounds on a 5-9/5-10 frame is a good example of it.

Now names for the 3rd/4th round. Going to add some here. Here are 16 names of guys that I hope we get aleast 2 of: Tambellini, Hayden, Bell, Yakimov, Sanford, Buckles, Fasching, Peterson, Cehlerik, Baptiste, Moutrey, Olsson, Paul, Kujowinski. Lodge, and Natasiuk. 8 are RHed and 8 are LHed. There are Americans, Canadians, Swedes, Czechs, and Russians in this group. All are 6-1 or taller. All are considered late 2nd-could side a bit, 3rd or 4th round talents. I would prefer to stay with RHed shooters. In the 3rd I would go in order: Hyden, Fasching, and Lodge. In the 4th round i would go in order: Yakimov, Bell, Buckles, Baptiste,Olsson, and Natasiuk. So though the 4th round, we have now drafted: Gauthier 6-5/220 LH C McCarron 6-5/230 RH RW Hayden 6-3/220 RH C/RW Yakimov 6-5/210 LH C I will finish up round 5-7 tomorrow. These as always are long shots and hail mary picks.

Now let's talk 3rd round and where we are at as an organization. As of today we have 18 forwards listed on the RW prospect page. of those 18 guys, 12 are LHed and 6 are RHed. the average size of those 18 is just under 6-1 in height and about 195 pounds in weight. Agin the NHL average for all players is around 6-1.5/210. So we are undersized. Now we (in my mock draft) have added 6-5/220 LH C Gauthier and 6-5/230 RH RW McCarron. That helps our size and adds another RH shot to the mix. That being said this is a really deep draft. There are 2 more rounds worth of guys that in most years would be 2nd round talents or higher. Time to pick really smart and turn this into a GREAT draft. I stay with forwards these next 2 rounds, unless a super falls. Again we have very good depth in our system on the blueline, a weak undersized forward core, and 1 last thing, the 2014 draft is considered to be a draft strong in defensemen and undersized skilled forwards. So I would stay big these 2 rounds. To this point in the draft there are so many good players that every team should be having a great time in NJ. No matter who a team takes, everyone-that is drafting, should be doing well.

No. he will get killed in the pros. he has good not great speed. Being undersized with only good speed is a recipe for a guy being a 15-20 goal per year guy. We need BETTER than that with our 1st. I am hoping he is gone that wau there is no way Holland F's up and takes him. he is a clone of Nyquist and tatar and we really don't need another guy like them.

Now, lets talk the second round. If we take Big Fred in the first, a big 6-5/220 LH C who do we take in the second? If McCarron is there we have to take him.But will he be there at 48? Not sure about that. Big RH American wings that can score go fast. So let's pretend he is gone (mother F...ers you better not take him). But if that happens, who? Bailey would be a great choice here. he has good size at 6-3/190, is RHed, has good speed and could be a C as well as RW. Those would be my top 2 choices. Of course any 1st rounders that drop should lso be looked at. Of the guys I am focusing on for the first round, the one most likely to slide into the second is Zykov. Call it the Russian factor-even though he is playing over here already or just flat north american bias. In the end, all 3 guys are RHed power forwards, and I would be happy as a pig in mud with any of them. Starting a draft with 6-5/220 LH C Gauthier an then 6-5/230 RH RW McCarron would be freaking awesome! Tomorrow we will do the 3rd round. In this draft the 3rd and 4th rounds will determine if we have a good draft or a great draft.

No Abby is about average. he is not "very physical". he is average in that department, maybe slightly above. In 2011/12 Abby had 148 hits. Not bad, that was 49th in the league amoung forwards. That was 220 hits behind the league leader Martin. Now don't get me wrong, I am a fan of Abby and we need MORE GUYS LIKE HIM. Now who in the draft is equal to Abby or better? Those are or should be our targets. That is the point. We have a bunch of guys like Filppula/Tatar/Nyquist/Jarnkrok etc.....

When talking about our present prospects-not just bodies it is true. Now there are a couple of guys with average size in the system. There are no abslutes nor did I say there was. Guys like Abby and Anderson-our "bigger" forwards are not all that big. They are average sized NHL players. The last 2 big forwards that we drafted and developed are Franzen 6-3/225 and Kopecky-6-3/215 and one isn't on the team. As for prefered players, yes Holland does like smaller skilled guys that can play his prefered puck posession style. There is no debate about this. Now I am a firm believer in balance. A team full of big guys isn't going to win a Cup-IE Philly nor are teams filled with small guys. You need both, just like we had 97-2002.

I am not sure why you are 1. showing every guy drafted by Holland over the last 16 years, most of which are not with the team and/or not playing hockey anymore and 2. I have been very clearly talking about FORWARDS and yet you keep listing Dmen. 3. At no point did I ever say holland never drafts guys with size. Not once. I said very clearly we need to add more guys with size/speed/skill/strength. yes we have a few guys in the system that are bigger forwards. But as history has shown over and over again, 1 out of 5 ever even make it to the NHL. So having 5-10 propsects with some size means we have 1-2 real players

The key here is, most of the bigger guys where drafted in later rounds and have almost 0 chance of ever making it. Even some of the guys you are listing as big, really are not. The average size of a NHL player is 6-1 1/2 and about 210 pounds. That is the league wide average. Now big by itself means nothing. Same as any other atribute. You need a combo: size+speed+skill. guys like Franzen and Bert come to mind. 6-3/225 or bigger that can do it all-or at one point could do it all. Those are the guys we need to add to our system.

I agree. mantha is what we need, but I don't think Holland will go that way. If you look at all the guys on our team/in our system, most are clones of each other. Similier size and skill set. But Holland isn't dumb. he knows he has t replace Cleary, Sammy, Bert, and Franzen over the next 1-3 years. There isn't much in our system that can do that.

Wennberg is compared to Zetterberg all the time. A little bigger and a little faster. But I think he will be gone when we pick.

Now let's have some fun. if I was going to place money on who the RW take in round 1, who is it? Tough question,but here we go. let's ass-u-me that all 5 of the guys I listed are still there. most should be Erne is the one most likely to be gone. How wouldI rate/predict the order? As of today I would go: Big Fred, Zykov, Horvat, Erne, Mantha in that order. Why? well style of player. We all joke about Holand's man love for "small skilled euro's". But that is only partly correct. His real man love is good 2 way forwards, which Euro's have a higher % of. Most NA players tend to focus on 1 thing at this age. Of the 5 gus i listed, Big Fred, Zykov, and Horvat are all very good/great 2 way players. They are good offensive players as well and all have good/great size and toughness. As much as I personnally like Mantha, he is a future Malkin/overchkin type offensive player, i don't think that Holland will go that way. I firmly believe that he would rather have a good defensive player that can score 20-25 goalsover a 40+ goal scorer that doesn't play D at all. Now playing D is a skill that is taught. anyone can learn to back check and block shots. But the Wings have always prefered guys that play defensive first and teach them how to shoot. So as of today my pick: Fred Gauthier 6-5/220 LH C in the 1st round.

There is a minimum-Huskins signed for it last year and a max. In some of the malkins threads it was posted, and IIRC it is 20% of the cap number.

Now some of my thoughts. Best pure goal scorer? Mantha. The questions on him are, is he a Petr Klima type player (only offense) or will he be a Madano type player? Guys that I think will be in the NHL the fastest? Mantha and Bell.Mantha will arive fast becasue he is a pure scorer. Guys like him don't take long. as for Bell, he is also a great scorer and he is already 20. he got passed over last year due to a tragic car accident. he was driving, got into an accident and his girlfriend died. He was cleared of all charges, wasn't drunk or stoned. Just a true accident. This year he got moved to Wing for the first time and put up 90+ points with 40+ goals. he reminds me of a bigger more physical version of Parise. he is a sniper. Best power forward? McCarron. No question about it. has size and uses it. Not a true fighter, but will drop the gloves if/when needed. he likes to play in front of a goalie and force the puck home. But he has a great shot as well. Moves well for a guy his size. One of the sites compared him to Clark Gillies. For those old enough to remember, Gillies is a HOF forward that was part of the Islanders dynasty in the late 70's. best sleepers: Bell and Haag. Both were born in 93. Most scouting sites over look each. How you overlook a guy that scores 90+ points in junior is beyond me, but it is the case. As for Haag, he was never drafted and did provide some good reviews in a 11 game tryout with Muskegon this year. 7 points in 11 games. not to bad. he has decnet size and likes to play low in front of the net. best way to describe his game is Homer but can skate. One last thing for tonight. There are a bunch of guys on this list that are going to play college hockey. Meaning we will not see them for 3 years. McCarron, hayden, fasching, Buckles, Tamballini, santini, etc... are all college bound.

Because of all the talent we already have in the system on the blueline, it isn't or shouldn't be a priority for the first 3 or 4 rounds, unless a super drops. IE if Santini were available in the second, then hell yes you take him. 1st round talent 2nd round price. My personnel hope is we take 4 forwards with our first 4 picks, and in a perfect world they would all be 6-2 or better. The good news is, there are a bunch of guys available this year that project to be that size now or in another year or 2. Most guys add 1-2 more inches by 21. We also have to start adjusting to the new conference. We are small. At forward anyway, so we need to find bigger talented guys. The dyas of 5-10/180 pounds guys leading a team to the SC are over. Even the Hawks "smaller" forwards have decent size to go with their speed and skill. When drafting you always pick the best available. In this draft we have 5-7 potential superstars then another group of about 60 that anyone of thme could be a good solid long term player. The differences in talent from 15 through about 80 is very very small this year. Then there is another group of about 40-50 that should be good 3rd line types.

Now of course this is not an all inclusive list. Go to central scouting for that. But these are guys are ranked close to where the Wings are picking in each round that fit our needs. There are several neat options that we could take. For example, we could draft Gauthier, McCarron, and Yakimov in the first 3 rounds. All 3 are 6-5/210 or bigger. That would fix our lack of size problems over night! You could also go all USA. Erne, McCarron, Hayden, and Fasching in the first 4 rounds. USA! USA! USA!

Ok, here are some names to watch for, by round. The later the rounds the newer the names. The high end guys are fairly well set. 1st: Valentin Zykov 6-0/210 RH RW Frederik Gauthier 6-5/225 LH C Anthony Mantha 6-4/190 LH LW/C Bo Horvot 6-0/205 LH C Adam Erne 6-1/210 LH LW 2nd: Mike McCarron 6-5/230 RH RW William Carrier 6-2/200 LH C Justin Bailey 6-3/190 RH RW/C Jason Dickinson 6-1/180 LH C Steve Santini 6-3/205 RH D 3rd: Adam Tambellini 6-2/170 LH C John Hayden 6-3/220 RH C/RW Myles Bell 6-0/210 RH RW Bogdon Yakimov 6-5/210 LH C Zach Sanford 6-3/185 LH LW 4th: Matt Buckles 6-2/210 RH C Hudson Fasching 6-2/215 RH RW Avery Peterson 6-2/195 LH C Peter Cehlarik 6-2/195 LH LW Carl Dahlstrom 6-3/210 LH D 5th: Antoine Bibeou 6-3/205 G Niklas Hansson 6-1/175 RH D Ryan Graves 6-4/220 LH D Nicholas Paul 602/200 LH LW Stephan Harper 6-1/200 LH LW 6th: Parker Reno 6-2/195 RH D Marcus Hogberg 6-4/205 G Tyler Hill 6-6/225 LH LW Villiam Haag 6-1/200 LH LW Brent Pederson 6-2/205 LH LW 7th: Anton Cederholm 6-2/205 LH D Greg Betzgold 6-2/195 LH C/LW Keegan Kanzig 6-7/240 LH D Jordan De Kort 6-4/195 G Sergey Stetsenko 6-3/191 LH D

You mean things like this: http://network.yardbarker.com/nhl/article_external/thoughts_on_moving_malkin/13791047 All rumor yes. But who knows. It will be hard for the Pens to keep him, Crosby, Neal, and letang. but who knows.

Going back to the begining for a bit here. I started this thread talking about the RW needs. We have a bunch of good young Dman prospects, and have several good young G prospects. There really isn't much need there. Our needs are Forwards. To be specific RH shooting forwards with size. We currently don't have a single C that is Rhed and very few RH shots in general. Keeping that in mind and where we are drafting-18th in each round, I will have a updated list of prospects late today/tomorrow. Some old names and some new ones. NA players and Euros.

The only ral negative with Malkin-and no pne has brought it up yet, is he has had injury issues in the past. Now let me ask everyone a question. Some here have argued about the cost to resign/keep him. So, think of it this way. If we had drafted Malkin, and at 26 he was coming up on his final year, would you be pushing for the RW to resign him? Or would you guys be ok with the RW letting a 50 goal scorer walk away? or would you be pushing for him to be traded? I have mentioned a couple of times on this forum, that maybe we should look into trading datsyuk or Zetterberg, thus getting something for them now while they have value, vs. letting them slowly decline and retire-then we get nothing. Of course many become un hinged at such talk. But at the same time may of those same names chime in with "we can't pay 1 guy 10 million or more per year". Which is worse? 10 million for a 27 year old 50 goal scorer or 7 million for a 35 year old 20 goal scorer? that is in essence what we are talking about.