FlashyG

I don't think there are any rules against it. He's already been on it for 2 years, has moved away from Philly and has no intentions of ever playing hockey again despite not filing his retirement papers. I think Philly plans to exploit the LTIR loophole for the duration of his contract as it was a 35+ contract and would count against them if he retired.

the site was called drop your gloves, the first page I opened was entirely about fights, and brawls, then in your next post you posted 2 fight videos. Forgive me but it sure seemed like you were talking about fighting.

To me the Hurricanes are kind of like toast. Its hard to feel strongly one way or the other about them. I guess these are better than their previous ones, but mostly I don't care what the Canes jersey looks like.

I must have mistook what you meant by "Physicality fests".

The reason those brawl filled games are in the east is because there are more fighters there. The fights are usually fighters fighting other fighters, if you don't have one to fight, then you're less likely to be involved in those types of games. I bet guys like Orr and Mclaren will be scratched when they play the Wings, or played very sparingly as they won't find any dance partners, and will likely be exposed by the speed on our 3rd and 4th lines. I doubt it would change the results much but keep in mind that hits, takeaways, blocked shots etc are stats that are kept by the home teams stats guys. The reporting of them is wildly inconsistent from team to team. You might see that the Wings hit totals are significantly higher next season even without much of a roster change.

Both Kindl and Smith rank above Colaiacovo on the depth chart and he's making 2.5 so I can't see them agreeing to much less than him unless its a long term deal. I believe Kindl is actually eligible for arbitration and would likely get more than 1.2 if we went that route. Nyquist and Andersson were guesses I can see them getting anything from the .725k up to the 1.2 million Eaves makes. I hope its less than a million as well, if it means we can bring in a FA for the top 6/ I agree on Cleary, I'd prefer him let go as well, but he's one of Babcock's favorite players, he was one of the more effective players we had in the playoffs and he's expressed a desire to take a pay cut to stay so I figure he'll be brought back.

Mrazek will definitely not be in the NHL for at least another season, and even then its not guaranteed. I doubt they want to use him as a back-up and as well as he's playing he's nowhere near as good as Howard right now. Down the road he'll push him for the starting role, but until he's ready to do that he'll be in the minors. Here's what I consider to be a realistic roster for the Wings going into next season. I don't think we sign any free agents this year, and I only see us using one buyout on Emmerton because Andersson has made him expendable. Salaries are a guess and probably slightly lower than what they will actually receive. CAPGEEK.COM USER GENERATED ROSTER My Custom Lineup FORWARDS Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m) Tomas Tatar ($0.840m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Danny Cleary ($1.500m) Gustav Nyquist ($1.200m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Damien Brunner ($2.500m) Todd Bertuzzi ($2.075m) / Joakim Andersson ($1.000m) / Jordin Tootoo ($1.900m) Mikael Samuelsson ($3.000m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.200m) / DEFENSEMEN Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($3.250m) Kyle Quincey ($3.775m) / Brendan Smith ($2.250m) Danny DeKeyser ($1.350m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.250m) Carlo Colaiacovo ($2.500m) / GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($5.292m) Jonas Gustavsson ($1.500m) ------ CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter) (these totals are compiled with the bonus cushion) SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $62,794,545; BONUSES: $1,010,000 CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,515,455

The Flyers aren't really in that much trouble with the Cap. Remember Pronger doesn't count against it because he'll be on LTIR until his contract is up. They actually have about 5 million is space to re-sign Gagne and to round out their roster. Capgeek is a little inaccurate with Philly's roster because they had so many injuries at the end of the season. There are a lot of guys on their Capgeek roster that will be back in the minors freeing up a bunch of space there as well as Pronger's money.

See my problem with peoples perception of Franzen is that he's held to a different standard that the players they compare him too. Others seem to be graded simply on what they produce, but when it comes to Franzen he's judged based on what they think he's capable of producing. Franzen has routinely out produced both Dupuis and Burrows, In fact the only season Burrows has out scored him at all, Franzen was injured and played only 27 games. Yet you think Franzen is only worth 2 million and Burrows is worth his 4.5 million cap hit. I've got no problem moving Franzen if its for an upgrade, or after we've upgraded, but there aren't many forwards available that are going to out produce him and even fewer that will out produce him for equal or less money.

What are you talking about? I never said anything even close to that.

Where did I say this? I intentionally didn't answer your hypothetical random numbers because it has nothing to do with Franzen, which is the topic of the thread. Of course in that context the guy with 1 goal a game over 30 games is more consistent over that stretch, but I fail to see what that has to do with Franzen, he scored 5 in a game once 2 years ago, he is far closer to the guy who scores 1 goal a game than the guy who scores 5 a game 6 times a season. In fact such a player does not even exist.

Technically I've been arguing about whether his production is consistent or not. His effort is what's inconsistent about him, but that can't really be measured like his production can. As far as production goes here is a short list of players who have been streakier or less consistent on the scoresheet than Franzen this year. Clarkson, Datsyuk. Perry. Kessel. Toews, Neal, Kunitz, Nash, Staal, and Parise. The list goes on but you can see my point, that other than an elite handful of scorers all players go through stretches where they don't score. At the end of the day their numbers as a whole are more important than they are in any individual stretch of games, and Franzen's production is not only good, but very consistent. You have a point on the length of his deal though, I doubt he'll maintain that level of production until he's 39, but I don't see any upside to buying him out if we can't replace his 25-30 goals a year.

If anyone wants a stream to this game PM me.

Once again you disregard facts and resort to name calling and attacks. I'm discussing the topic of the thread, and I'm happy to back up my opinions with factual evidence. I'm not attempting to start an argument, but I'm not going to shy away from one either, especially when I believe someone is making ridiculously incorrect statements. You took issue with me saying Franzen is consistent and you suggested buying him out to sign 2 of Bickell, Horton and Clarkson. I've backed up my argument showing you that not only is he the most consistent of the 3 by my definition of consistent, he's also more consistent by your definition. The irony in your last sentence is mind blowing, you think I'M the one letting my feelings toward a player get in the way of numbers when you have completely disregarded every number posted in this thead out of your clear disdain for Franzen. I've already stated the many flaws I find in Franzen's game, his consistency isn't one of them.

I love how people disregard facts when they disagree with their clearly incorrect argument. The reason you are wrong is that you seem to be thinking only in the short term. Every player in the NHL is inconsistent if you are grading them game to game. The #'s that matter is what they put up over the course of a season. Franzen is a streaky scorer (Every goal scorer is) so he's not going to score every game, but he'll consistently put up the same #'s every year. Whether he gets his goals in bursts of 5 or 6 in a couple of games and none in the next few the end result is a consistent 25-30 goals a season. The longest Franzen went without a goal this season was 7 games, for Clarkson it was 13 games, for Horton it was 8. Even by your standard Franzen is the most consistent of those 3, so please spare me your personal attacks and condescension

Andersson will be a great 4th line center, but Helm would make that line FAR more dangerous offensively. They'd have enough speed that every team would have trouble containing them

Franzen's Goal production since his 2nd year in the league. 27 in 72 games (1 goal every 2,6 games) 34 in 71 games (1 goal every 2.1 games) 10 in 27 games (1 goal every 2.7 games) 28 in 76 games (1 goal every 2.7 games) 29 in 77 games (1 goal every 2.6 games) 14 in 41 games (1 goal every 2.9 games) By comparison here is Clarkson's goal scoring numbers over that same time frame. 9 in 81 games .(1 goal every 9 games) 17 in 82 games (1 goal every 4.8 games) 11 in 46 games (1 goal every 4,2 games) 12 in 82 games (1 goal every 6.8 games) 30 in 80 games (1 goal every 2.6 games), 15 in 48 games (1 goal every 3.2 games) Clarkson's absolute best pace is the same as Franzen's Average. Mule may not be the best scorer in the league, he may be capable of even more, and he may not give as much effort as we want him too, but he is absolutely consistent in what he produces.

You win a hockey game only by outscoring your opposition, out hitting, out forechecking and out fighting is nice, but if you do all that and get outscored you still lose. Franzen is guilty of floating, and of not playing as physically as he's capable of but he is one of the most consistent goal scorers in the entire league. Clarkson is not a better player than him, he's had a hot season and a half but if you think Franzen is inconsistent then you're going to be sorely disappointed by Clarkson who before last season had never even hit 20 goals in a year. He's hardly worth the 5-6 million a season he's going to cost. If you want to add a Bickell, you can easily do that without letting Franzen go, but Bickell is not going to make the top 6 any better. The only one of the players you mentioned who would be worth pursuing for a top 6 spot would be Horton, and we'd be better served having him and Franzen. Rather than him and Bickell, or him and Clarkson.

Craig Button did the mock draft and only did it for the 14 lottery spots. Here is his mock draft for them

Why do we need 2 of those 3 guys? I like Horton as much as anyone but even at his absolute best he's only going to match what Franzen produces not exceed it. Clarkson is even more of a gamble considering his career average before his 30 goal season is around 15 a season. Bickell is an upgrade on Abdelkader but you can add up every goal he's scored in his NHL career and only be slightly ahead of 1 season of Franzen's production. On top of that, Horton and Clarkson are both going to cost more than Flip wants, and likely a few million more than Franzen for what at best will be the same production. Contrary to the saying, the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

If we were going to get Horton that would be one thing, but I'd rather Franzen than Clarkson. I think this past season was an anomaly for him, and Franzen while frustrating as hell sometimes is far more consistent with his production for much less money than Clarkson will get in this weak FA class.

When asked if the talk of buying out Franzen was Crazy, Holland replied "To me it is". Franzen will be back next year.

Draft Order 1. Colorado 2. Florida 3. Tampa Bay 4. Nashville 5. Carolina 6. Calgary 7. Edmonton 8. Buffalo 9. New Jersey 10. Dallas 11. Philadelphia 12. Phoenix 13. Winnipeg 14. Columbus 15. New York Islanders 16. Minnesota 17. Ottawa 18. Detroit 19. New York Rangers 20. San Jose 21. Washington 22. Toronto 23. Vancouver 24. St. Louis 25. Montreal 26. Anaheim 27. Los Angeles (Subject to change) 28. Boston (Subject to change) 29. Pittsburgh (Subject to change) 30. Chicago (Subject to change)

Trades don't work like that in the real world. You don't see blockbuster trades involving roster players going both ways. If the Wings wanted to acquire Horton and Lucic it would cost us draft picks and prospects. You might see one roster player thrown in for salary reasons, but your proposed trade would get you hung up on. I'm not sure why everyone is so hurried in getting players to the NHL, Sheahan will possibly be an injury call-up but has no chance of being an NHL regular, same goes for Mrazek. Pulkinnen MIGHT get 1 or 2 games at the NHL level if we have a rash of injuries like we did this year but Frk has absolutely no chance whatsoever of playing at all with the Wings next year. We probably won't see him for another 2 or 3 years at the earliest.

Datsyuk is up again in the play of the year voting, Its his goal vs LA. The vote is 50-50 so vote often. Lets make it a Datsyuk vs Datsyuk final.