Euro_Twins

I agree with the fact that he is unproven in the nhl, but the wings have always found a way to have guys play to their full potential in the NHL. That being said your information is incorrect, in 2011/12 he scored 24 goals, 36 assists. Which is 60 points in 45 games. To put that in perspective, if that were a 82 game season, he was on pace to hit 109 points in the swiss league, and 43/44 goals. So let's not get our hopes too high, but also not knock the guy yet, because those kind of points are quite good, and if he can transfer even half of that to the nhl and get 20+ goals and 60+ points, I would be very happy with that. EDIT: Josh Holden also had maybe 2 good season in the swiss league, whereas no matter who his linemates have been Brunner has been very consistently good for ZUG

You're wrong. The Mayans did not have leap years, but they did have a much more accurate way of telling time then even we do, where every year an extra .25 days was added in. Their time telling system was much more accurate and reliable, not saying the world will end, just saying your theory is wrong.

only needs 7 owners to like him(assuming he gets the Phoenix vote)

you realize this won't be accepted because you edited it?

One news reporter quoted; Another news reporter; and another;

This is wishful thinking, but this may result in something positive, maybe a deal within the week? *fingers crossed*

Tuesday November 6 3:00pm est

What if Bettman actually paid $250k payment for the winter classic but said he cancelled it, and now is trying to push the PA to make a deal so he doesn't lose the owners money... Just a ridiculous thought, for fun

While this IS true, you have to remember the escrow payments were around 8-10% every year, and they got the money back once they went through the finances. Now what the owners are asking, is that the players take an immediate rollback of 12% and still they will lose money to escrow, so they are actually losing more than what is contracted. Yes, to begin with Fehr was playing hardball, but that is what you have to do against Bettman or you won't get anywhere with him. Maybe they are not speaking the "same language" but Fehr has been consistently trying to get Bettman in a negotiation room with him, which won't happen unless it is on Bettman's terms. The PA's proposals do actually make it down to 50/50, as long as the league continues to grow at least 5% each year. Lastly everyone is entitled to their opinion, so if the resident mod wants to like my post, I do not see the issue, as it is something he agrees with. (yes I did see your apology letter, and I think it speaks volumes, but again everyone is entitled to their opinion) You are looking at this as if the owners actually paid $240 million for their teams, which they did not. For instance Mr. Illitch, I believe actually paid somewhere around 75-80 million, and not it is WORTH about $350 million. So if his original investment was $80 million, and we assume he made $7 million this year, his profit on his investment would actually be 8.75%. Now you can argue about money they spend every year blah blah blah, but they make that money back, and most years make profit, and mr. illitch's teams worth has grown about $270 million since his purchase, which is even more profit. There is about 10 teams "making money" and about 7-8 teams losing money, every other team basically is breaking even, give or take

I am not trying to stir up a fight here, but I had to make a point on this last statement you made. Obviously the owners locked out the players, and refused to let them play under the old CBA. That being said, yes the NHL and the PA are both at fault here to varying extents. I believe the owners and Bettman are more at fault, which is partially why I take the players side, lets look at the facts; - Bettman and the owners have been negotiating in bad faith since day 1 (look at the first proposal they made), and they refuse to negotiate unless it is under preconditioned terms. - Fehr and the players have consistently put out proposals with different methods of how to get their revenue share to what the league is asking, and they got shot down without any consideration for what they are proposing. - Bettman and Fehr are both trying to win a PR battle, difference is Bettman is making proposals that look good to fans, so they will back him, but when they players read through it, they realize he never had any intention of doing anything the players asked. - The players are willing to go down to 50/50, it will take about 2 seasons to get there, but they will get there, all they ask is current contracts thatthe OWNERS willingly signed before the lockout be honored (not a lot to ask, considering they were given a contract right before the lockout stating they would be payed X amount) but the owners are refusing that now. I am on the players side, but nothing I mentioned was based on opinion, or bias. Everything I wrote is factual, and if you really want I can post links to back up everything I have written.

well, Cabrera finally showed up, gave the tigs a 2-1 lead. First time against the giants they've had the lead. Maybe a few more guys will wake up now

We also get to pass up a full season of trading away a first round draft pick!

The only reason Bettman has so much power is because he gave himself it. He chose who to put on the board, and created the rule of needing 23 owners to overturn him, after he gathered up his group of 8 owners that will always do what he says they should. They are like a gang of schoolyard bullies, one guy bullying them while the rest of the group cheers him on behind him.

It is a lot closer than what bettman is claiming it to be. The problem is Bettman wants to "win" this war to prove he is better than Fehr, Which is why he refuses to meet without preconditions, and why it's his offer or nothing. If Bettman's offer is the one they use, he looks great to the owners and to the fans. If Fehr wins the war he looks great to the players and fans, and Bettman possibly (hopefully) gets canned. It's all just a PR battle, it wouldn't matter if they were $50 apart or $600 million

Hmm not bad, but you're missing Miller in there, but I like the overall look of those lines, I would prefer to pair smith with someone who doesn't miss a lot of games like Colaiacovo does, he is young and needs a good reliable pairing to help him grow. That is why I paired him with Ericsson, he has gotten much better over the last couple years, and was better than Stuart and the end of last season. I think he also a lot less injury prone. Just my humble opinion though.

It's not about "proving himself", it's about proving he is injury free and capable at playing at the same level he once was. Just because he played all season injured doesn't necessarily mean he will be good again once he is healed. For all we know he may have caused permanent damage to his knee playing on it all year while it was injured. All I am saying is if he proves he is healthy and playing 100% or close to it, he can be on the lineup this year, if I were Babcock and felt he was underperforming in training camp, he would be a healthy scratch, or maybe a 4th liner.

that just seems like a recipe for disaster... no Brunner?

I am not debating the fact that they are standing firm. Good on them for fighting for what they (the owners) think is right. I am upset about the fact that they refuse to meet with the PA to discuss what they can do to solve all this crap, without any preconditions. Everything should be on the table for negotiations in a lockout, not just what Bettheleaguesmoneyman thinks should be discussed. The PA wants to negotiate currently and resolve the lockout, the evil twins don't. If that changes I will take the owners side. Yes, but what Fehr did was in fact a little bit different, as the owners tabled an extremely unreasonable offer, while the PA was trying lose as little as possible. I tend to agree with Fehr on that one solely because the owners were refusing to budge on their initial proposal, rewording a proposal does not count as a "new" proposal. Yes I know the PA was also trying to keep what they had, but that is what any good unionhead would do, they were not asking for more, just what they were promised (as far as contracts go), but the owners were asking for a huge salary rollback, afgter they committed to the contracts THEY signed.

If Cleary can come out and prove he has recovered from his knee injury and play well, I would put him on the third line, problem is we have a lot of talent and no where to put it all. If Cleary plays the way he did last year he is not very useful to us, that is why I did not include him. Cleary a few years back was good, but not for a little while, but hey here is to hoping I am wrong.

Difference is the pa wants to be able to negotiate the whole contract, the nhl does not want that by any means. The pa submitted three contract proposals, and the nhl wants them to submit another after they barely even looked those three? I think its the nhl's turn to submit another proposal, but they never want to move off of their stance, there is about 600 million dollars seperating them over 6 years, they should be able to figure this out, meet in the middle. EDIT: http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=408045

The thing is too, Bettman and Daly refuse to negotiate unless the Fehr brothers are nogotiating on their terms, off their proposal they tabled Tuesday and willing to make only minor changes. That is not negotiating, not at all. At least the Fehr brothers have tried to get in a room and hash it out, but the evil twins refuse to listen unless fehr says we want to accept your proposal but negotiate the "make whole" issue. That is why I am against Bettman, he consistently refuses to negotiate, while Daly says there is nothing to discuss. There is plenty to discuss.

You fail to take into account that Illitch does not lose money on the wings, the last 5 years or so his "losing" franchise was in the top 5 revenue teams every year.

Exactly my thoughts, this lockout may prove to have some benefits after all.

The issue of whether the PA found out about it Friday is neither here, nor there. The main issue is that the owners violated their own rules during the lockout, and went behind the unions back to contact players. All this does is cause more distrust between owners and union reps, and create more of a riff in bargaining. Instead of playing politics they need to sit down for 8 hours(a regular work shift for most working stiffs) and hash out their issues. I just want to watch hockey.