shoobiedoobin

I'm not sure why labels matter when we all know exactly what type of players our guys are. Labels are used to easily categorize, but we're already acquainted with the play style of a guy like Franzen. Unfortunately, there's Franzen the power forward sniper, which is what he is when he wants to skate and play hard. Then there's Franzen the slow dangler who looks for the perfect shot, who is neither sniper nor power forward when he floats.

I'd be OK with Pav and Hank as long as long as they finish here and don't do something crazy in the last few years. I don't think we should hold every single player to the standards of Stevie or Nick. They built their legacy partly because the team when they showed up wasn't as good as it is now. And since we're so good, we can afford the opportunity to let our best players ripen so to speak in Grand Rapids, or wherever. We don't have to shoe-horn them in at 18 or 19 years old and won't even if they are ready. Add to that, our playing style is less about individual points and attributes and more about the team. Which makes it almost impossible to have a Stevie kind of career. It's more a testament to how our team has been built for the past decade or so. I think Pav and Hank should go up, and if we have 7 or 8 names, whatever, we've been stacked and this would just be proof of it. What if in the next 20 years we're mediocre? For a good period of time? We're understandably worried about cheapening the honor of going up at the Joe but maybe we should look at the forest a few more feet away from the trees. We could have 8 names in the next 5 years or so but it could stay at 8 for the next 30. We've been pretty lucky as fans to even get to have this conversation.

LOL what a random couple to pair against one another

Thanks for the welcome folks I don't really have a specific reason to put Pav with Gus aside from not having many other options and not having enough time to really look at Gus. But they seemed to work well together. Pav I wouldn't be worried about, if you actually try he'll make you look good. Nyquist is more effective with the puck but hey, having the best passer feeding you can be nice.

I'll try ranking them by overall value. Otherwise it may devolve into season vs season or something like that. And I guess this depends on the relative definition of value to the Wings. Championships, winning seasons, stats, etc. 20. Hull 19. Helm 18. Howard 17. Maltby 16. Cleary 15. McCarty 14. Franzen/Stuart (couldn't decide) 13. Osgood 12. Kronwall 11. Hasek 10. Rafalski 9. Filppula 8. Chelios 7. Yzerman 6. Shanahan 5. Draper 4. Holmstrom 3. Zetterberg 2. Datsyuk 1. Lidstrom Beyond the top 3 or 4 this list might change if I put more thought into it but for the moment this is what I think. This could stir up a lot of debate since like I said everyone will have a different definition of valuable over 10 years. Even I had a tough time deciding for example if something like 4 great years was on par with 10 good years. It's tough and makes you appreciate how absolutely stacked we've been.

I doubt Luongo gets bought out, he's likely to be traded to Toronto or maybe Florida. I think this bail out-er-buyout clause is to help teams get rid of guys like Gomez, Redden, Dipietro, etc. Players no one would trade for that their current team also wouldn't want to keep. At least realistically. It could also be to keep players from signing and getting lazy (or at least trying enough to be the third worst contract on the team). As for us, I think if Franzen doesn't smarten up he could find himself bought out. Other than that, I don't see many bad contracts. Holland's played his cards pretty well. We'd have to really reach to start calling guys like E, Quincey or Sammy bad deals. Almost every team has those type of contracts.

I've lurked for awhile but I thought I'd reg and reply to this. These are the lines I think we should roll with, not the ones I think we eventually will. Nyquist-Datsyuk-Franzen Filppula-Zetterberg-Brunner Miller-Helm-Tootoo Cleary-Abdelkader-Sammy Bertuzzi Mursak The top six to me was fairly easy. Bert can't be there anymore. He's very skilled but he's an anchor (and if we could trade for a forward I'd drop Mule, too). Skilled anchors worked in the olden days but now, I'd rather have younger faster legs. Contact sports rely on the push/pull relationship between contact and speed. The more we reduce contact, the more the game becomes about speed. Gus and Brunner need to take spots from guys like Bert and Cleary. If Cleary can show he's gotten some speed back, I'm all for him moving around but his lack of speed killed his game the last couple seasons. Brunner's got to at least start and likely stay with Hank, and so does Fil after last season. First line could be solid gold if god willing Mule wants to try. Third line I think could be a total nightmare for any team in the league to play against. Miller usually adapts and plays like his linemates and Helm/Tootoo are wrecking balls. Miller's shown the ability to play fast and hard. Tootoo is that extra dimension we needed on our grind line. I honestly think this line could top out as best in the league for pure grinding. 4th line is blah, whatever, Bert and Sammy can battle it out. Kronwall-White E-Quincey Coliacovo-Smith Kindl I don't think our D is as bad as some say but I do think it needs improving. However how many true top end dmen exist anymore? It seems we're swimming in a sea of really good but not great players with only Weber, Chara, Suter and maybe Doughty left as elite. I think our top D pairing won't hurt much, contrary to popular belief. Nik I think is capable of doing what Nick's done the last few seasons. It's the second pairing that will hurt badly. No matter what we do we won't get a second line as rock solid as Nik and Stu. E and Quincey are a scary drop-off, even if I think we underrate both of them a little bit. We need to make a trade or scoop up someone who has been bought out, or something. I think the bottom 4 may swap in and out with eachother until something works. Team D this year more than ever, I think. Howard Gustavsson I'll also say that I'd bet the lines will change pretty frequently until Babcock starts thinking it's a bad idea to tinker too much, especially with the forwards.