poel

Yes, I like the deal. But the work isn't done. Basically all Holland did so far is to give himself a chance to make up for a mistake he made. It obviously all depends on how good our 1st rounder will be and what Holland will be able to do with the cap space he got. He said he wants to sign a replacement for Datsyuk, which would mean a Center. The only topcenter in Free Agency would be Stamkos who I believe will resign in Tampa if he's not too pissed about having to play under Cooper which we probably all don't know. I'm pretty sure Toronto has officially given up on Stamkos...they have some really bad contracts and would have to move at least some of them in order to sign Stamkos. Buffalo to me also is highly unlikely to happen. Stamkos wants to be a clear Nr.1 center and get paid like it. Buffalo though already has Reinhart and Eichel. I know that Reinhart played on the wing recently but I still think it would scare Stamkos away. Right now he'd obviously be their number one guy, but he could get moved to the wing or even down to the 2nd line...something I don't think he wants. I think Holland needs to trade for a topcenter. Which surely won't be easy. I still say he should call Chayka and ask for Hanzal. They're reportedly shopping him. I know that there are some questions about his health...but if he's at his best, he's a beast. Maybe the most underrated Centerman in this league. Would be one heck of a 2nd line or 1st line shutdown center.

I doubt that even the best GM could get Stamkos to join us but I'd surely be happy if Holland gets it done. And no, I don't feel that I do that. I just feel that although this trade is creative and makes sense for both teams it's not the time to praise Kenny for it or even compare him with Bowman. If he gets to sign some good FA's or lands some significant trades and if the difference between the prospect isn't gonna be huge or even in our favour it will still be early enough to praise Holland for it.

Surely Holland called Chayka ahead of the draft day trying to unload Datsyuk's contract. But on the draftday Chayka confirmed that it was him proposing this trade to Holland as he want Chychrun who was still available and who they even considered to pick at #7. Other teams above us may not have been willing to trade down so he approached Holland with this deal. Chayka seemed like the obvious choice for us and from what I heard we wanted him. But granted, I don't know it and there were rumours heading in both ways. It doesn't really matter in the end. Chayka obviously wanted the guy and he would have get picked soon...if not by us soon after. That's not what I said. I even said that he did well to wait for the right offer. And again, Chayka clearly said that he wanted to move up to get Chychrun. It was him who proposed this deal to Holland...maybe he negotiated this deal but I'd guess that he didn't and there surely was time pressure.

Good on him for not panicking and holding on to Datsyuk's contract until the right offer came. But the offer came from Chayka and must have come in shortly before our pick as Chayka wouldn't have done it without Chychrun still being available. Therefore I highly doubt that Holland negotatiated a lot...he most likely just accepted Chayka's offer. Whether it was a good idea to accept Arizona's offer remains to be seen. Chychrun and Cholowski will get compaired regularly from now on. It also will be interesting to see what Holland does with the cap he got. For now it's a good deal for both sides but surely nothing to praise Holland for or even to compare him with Bowman...absolutely priceless...

Really? Starting to really worry about you now...you must be completely paranoid...would also explain some other posts I read from you recently. You compaired this trade with the Bickell one to Carolina and praised Holland for it which couldn't be any more wrong. Firstly, it was Chayka who asked Holland for this trade and secondly this trade has been completed because, other than in the Bickell-Trade, there is no salary to pay...which is key for the Yotes who don't have money. If they had to pay Datsyuk like Carolina Bickell this trade wouldn't have happened or at least with completely different assets. I predicted here that it was Chayka asking for it to get the guy we were about to pick. Post #17. I wrote this post before LeBrun, and probably any other media guy, confirmed it. To write that I misunderstood this deal is absolutely ridiculous as in fact it was you who didn't get the sense behind this trade. If you don't understand this I feel really sorry for you and would strongly recommend you to get yourself some help. The only thing I didn't get was why Chayka included Viale...but that's really just a side note. Obviously just a bit of salary moved from Arizona to us. Surely wasn't key in this deal.

You don't understand anything. You were compairing Bickell's deal with that one here which tells everything. If you don't know what you're talking about you might just for once don't touch your keyboard. This deal happened because Chayka wanted the player we were about to pick. There's no need to praise Holland for this deal or to even compare him with Bowman.

Sure. I forgot that you have to pay LTIR's. Makes sense now....

Cool. But why did he want to include him in this deal? If this is true that would make no sense. I don't trust him yet

Trade is un-Holland-like because it was Chayka who initiated it. I don't know how much Holland negotiated but I say he probably just agreed as there was time pressure

Eyeballs to eyeball stats? But that's not the point here. You just compared a contract with salary and a contract without salary...which, sorry, is extremely stupid. Arizona doesn't have any money. They wouldn't have done this deal if they had to pay for this contract. It's a deal that makes sense for both sides. The Yotes get a contract they can use to reach the cap floor without having to pay for it. They got to draft a player we would have drafted and they unloaded a useless player. We unloaded tons of cap and even received a compensation for not being able to draft our original target.

It does make sense. LeBrun just confirmed it. https://twitter.com/60CarltonSt/status/746533100155342848 Your post makes no sense. You compared apples and bananas. The salary is the different between the two deals. And we gave up on a player. A player we wanted and that may have went too late in this years draft. Deal to move Datsyuk's cap is ok but not more.

And you don't think Chayka might would have demanded way more if there was salary attached? It's just cap...cap they need anyway. And they even get Vitale off their roster...a player we have to pay. Plus he gets a player he knew we wanted. Honestly...the deal was creative but if you wanna tell us now that Holland's a genius because of this deal it's slightly ridiculous He was injured pretty much all season long. Not sure if it's already clear that he's not gonna play next season. I doubt that. If it was then why Chayka wanted to move him?

Vitale is not gonna be in our roster. It changes nothing. Vitale is useless. Miller will be back...or at least I hope so.

Good one. But for both sides actually. Smart deal from Chayka also. Would have liked to get Hanzal in a bigger trade. Hopefully that's still to come... He'll be really good. But that was the prize. Chayka knew that Holland was gonna pick the guy. That's why he did the deal besides getting Vitale off the roster.

Common sense should normally tell you that these numbers must be wrong. If you're, despite ridiculous numbers, several links provided by another user and and my explanations still convinced that they're right then it's on you to explain why a player has good numbers and why another one doesn't. First you criticize me for not knowing how they track it even though I clearly wrote that and why those numbers are wrong. After it came out that there really is no definition for a take- or giveaway you make it very easy for yourself by just saying that it's not on you to prove that the numbers are right. So you criticize me for saying that they're wrong but refuse to tell me why they're right? You're a joke. Really ridiculous. But good on you for not abusing those numbers to spread lies like others about Tatar or Helm being that good, never losing pucks and so on...I'm sick of it.

We can tell? Who is we? You and your ego? You seem to be a bit bipolar... Just because they tell you what you dream about in your fantasyworld, take- and giveaway statistics are 100% true and waterproof and you ignore every fact that tells you the opposite. You keep telling people that what they see with their own eyes is completely wrong but at the same time have no proof for your weird fantasies other than stats who obviously couldn't be more wrong. I'm also still waiting for some other user with similar problems theory why Stone is such a takeaway monster, dominated the league in that regard over two years and is, together with Datsyuk, by far the best takeaway player ever in NHL history. You, Echolalia, indicated that my theory of those stats being randomly counted is absolutely wrong so I suspect that it should be easy for you to explain me why Stone isn't a superstar already. Cannot wait for you to tell me.

It's exacly the other way around. Tatar's point total was okay to me. It's not my problem. I'm not okay with the way he played. Like "Now I got my contract I don't care whay you say, Blash. If you don't wanna play me in the top 6 then I'm just gonna show everybody that I'm not too motivated to play 3rd line." Tatar played completely different under Babcock. And again...I'm not talking about his points total. And also, I again wanna tell you that I like Tatar...just like I like Smith. But his work ethic and attitude were terrible last season. He didn't seem to hit anybody all season long and didn't show the slightest bit of the energy he had when playing for Babcock. As a rookie he was an absolute wrecking ball...last season he looked like a lame duck. The only player I really don't like on this team is Helm. I never liked him in fact. Always was a terrible, dumb player without skills with a bad hockey sense just relying on his speed. But please don't tell me again that I would make unfair judgements of other players because I don't like them. It's just not true.

My ideal lineup for next season: Abdelkader, Zetterberg, Okposo Mantha, Hanzal, Radulov Athanasiou, Larkin, Pulkkinen Jurco, Sheahan, Glendening Miller, Nosek DeKeyser, Trouba Kronwall, Marchenko Smith, Sproul Green - Trade Datsyuk alongside Tatar, Nyquist and Pick to Arizona for Hanzal - Offer sheet for Trouba - Sign Radulov and Okposo via Free Agency - Buyout Ericsson

How do you wanna handle that? This stat is already a joke. You'd need to hire a lot of people with a lot of knowhow to do that. The people who are currently in charge of it already fail to find a common denominator how to score give- and takeaways. Not surprising. Thanks for the links. About time some users here land back on earth. I'm sick of dumb postings like "Helm has just 16 giveaways and therefore he's no turnovermachine but our best defensive forward".

Let's call it common sense. Nobody does. Or do you wanna explain me why Mark Stone is by far the best takeaway player in this league and nobody ever realized it? I can't wait to read your explanation. If those numbers are true, Mark Stone would be an absolute star. Datsyuk's all time NHL-record for takeaways is 144 but in 82 games. In all fairness, Mark Stone is a good player. But these numbers are just ridiculous.

I think he should have trusted Smith like Babcock did. He will always make a few mistakes but with confidence he'll play well enough to justify his spot and he'd add important elements like speed, skills, mobility or toughness to our defense. Tatar, like I explained earlier made too many mistakes and didn't look like he'd care too much. He was a lot worse than in his rookie season and even though he got protected like a rookie he failed to solidify his game.

I like Smith but what this couldn't be more wrong. Smith turned over the puck far too often last season to be a good possession player. It's also questionable to just count shots and then tell that somebody is a good possession player or not. Smith has the tools to be a good possession player but he wasn't last season. Anyway, his greatest plus is his mobility and speed. He's an excellent skater and that's why Babs liked him that much. At the same time his giveaways were always his biggest problem. Smith is a good defender but he's not a good possession player as he's not solid enough and lacks consistency even when playing really well.

It's not clear enough. We all know what a shot is, what a hit is, what a block is. It's not hard to count for pretty much everybody. Take- and giveaways are different. I don't know how they count them but the numbers are too low. Like I said...don't even need to know hockey to understand that the numbers aren't right. Therefore I'd really worry about you if you don't agree... Andersson per nhl.com has 0 givaways in 29 regular season games. Marchenko has just 7 takeaways in 66 games. If those numbers are true we shouldn't resign Marchenko and offer huge money to Andersson instead. A few other numbers leaguewide: Takeaways: 1. Mark Stone 128 (in just 75 games) 2. Jeff Skinner 77 3. Dustin Byfuglien 73 Giveaways: 1. PK Subban 106 (in just 68 games) 2. Brent Burns 102 3. Joe Thornton 98 They really must think that hockeyfans are extremely stupid.

You can think what you want but it's like I wrote. I'm a fan of Tatar and there's nothing I'd want more than to see him play the way we all know he could. For some reasons he didn't and if some of you guys continue to say to yourselves that he played great nd it's all Blashill's fault that he didn't get the minutes he and you want it doesn't make it true. Same goes for several other players. Wings didn't play a good season and several players, also young ones, played even worse than before. You can blame Blashill for certain decisions but not for everything.

Empirically? Wow. So you're convinced that these numbers are right? Ericsson might turn over the puck 71 times per hour...but not per season. These numbers are as random as it gets and generally waaaaaay too low. Really. Statistics are usually pretty good nd precise in the nhl but not in terms of give- and takeaways. It's not even possible that those numbers are right. You don't even have to know a lot about hockey to understand that.I have no reason to hate Tatar. In fact I even was a great fan. He was great as a rookie. Lightning fast, hitting everybody, shooting...he brought lots of energy into this team. Last season I saw none of it. He scored a few points but there was no energy, he didn't hit and also didn't seem to really care. He was brutal. No need to lie. It wasn't enough. And he wasn't the only one who lost all trust of the coaching staff with careless or naive play.