DickieDunn

Holland used to move on if he needed to. He let Lapointe walk when he got a big offer from Boston. He traded for Hasek even though we had Osgood, and Osgood and Holland are really close. Now, if he had a chance to get an elite level player at the cost of someone on the roster who was "home grown" and he was close to, I don't think he'd pull the trigger.

There was a certain someone insisting that Larkin was already an elite player 2 months into his rookie season.

EXACTLY

One, I wasn't talking about specific players necessarily. Two, 14 minutes was just a number I threw out. Three, a forward who doesn't score a single goal until the very last game of the year averaging anywhere close to 14 minutes a night, and Sheahan was at 13:58, and getting a second of PP time means your coach has gone full retard. By then end of the year he should have been a regular healthy scratch, if not waived, regardless of the "good things" he did. A forward's primary job is to score. If you're not scoring much you damn well be hitting everything that moves, especially if you're a relatively big guy.

did they get a new coach? No? I don't expect much, then.

captain cut and paste turns into captain link to an actual journalist. but like I said, nothing I've read has suggested he'll be on LTIR this year, unless you believe that last year will 100% mean he can't play this year. Sheahan is as soft as a new born bunny player who has always had limited offensive upside. AA is a dynamic player who should be able to score 25-30 goals given the right usage. On most teams, the guy who can score gets paid and the defensive player gets what's left. In Detroit it's the opposite. Gotta respeck da process.

Sheahan signed a 2 year deal worth $2.075 mil a year after a season where he scored 14G and 25 points in 15:15 TOI a game at 24 years old in 81 games. Athanasiou scored 18 goals and 29 points playing 13:28 a game at 22 years old in 64 games. You're right, I'd want a lot more. 2009 he was one of the 10 best int he NHL, easy. He hasn't slipped that much. Start listing teams with 3 better forwards. I'll wait.

Depends on who his wingers are. Put him on the Caps with Ovechkin on his wing, he's the #1 center and they have a better shot at the Cup. Toews is younger, but not necessarily better. Pens have probably the best 1-2 punch at C, so he'd either be a winger or 3rd center there. TB he'd be a top line winger or #2 C. BUT you said zero top line forwards. There are no teams with 3 forwards better than Zetterberg, and damn few with 2 better than him. Since he can play both wing and center, you're wrong. Plus Mantha could be a legit top line winger if he takes a step forward. If Larkin rebounds he cold be a top line forward. Of course, a lot of the rebounding and progressing depend sin large part on coaching, and I've read nothing to suggest that Blashidiot is going to change anything, so I expect a repeat of last year with most players performing below their capabilities.

Except by trying to be cannon fodder for a first round opponent they're not going to get the higher draft picks that typically mean better players. His 68 points was tied with Pavelski for 24th in the league, one fewer point than Ovechkin, Mathews, and Benn. This isn't the 80's where all the good scorers are up around 100 points. He'd be one of the three best forwards on any team in the league. Why in the hell would AA take a dime less than Sheahan got on his RFA deal? I sure as hell wouldn't

Except Holland is also loading the team with mediocre talent on deals that are too long for too much money instead of going with a youth movement, because he thinks making the playoffs just to get bounced in 5 games is a good plan for a team that needs to rebuild, because he doesn't think they do need to rebuild.

He's elevated "process" to something more than it should be. It's like Marinelli's "pound the rock" BS.He'd rather play guys with no real skill 14 or 15 minutes and maybe win 2-1 than give younger players who still need to grow defensively like AA and Mantha that time and win 4-3. Beyond that, he thinks every forward needs to be some kind of defensive whiz, and that's not true. Player A is responsible for 60 goals for, either scoring them, setting them up, or by doing something where he doesn't get a point but his actions lead to the goal (causing a turnover with a forecheck, screening the goalie etc). He's not very good defensively, and he is responsible for 35 goals against from defensive lapses. Player B is a defensive ace with limited offensive ability. He is responsible for 20 goals for and 15 goals against. Both players average 14 minutes a game. With player A, your team is +25 goals over the course of the year. With Player B, +5. Other than certain situations like last minute of a game where you're leading, or the PK, Player A is the better overall player. Blashill would rather have a team full of guys like Player B.

OK, so if Larkin and Mantha (or two other forwards) end up as legit top line guys, Cholowski and an as yet unknown player are a legit top pair, and they find a long term solution in net, be it Petruzelli, Mrazek, or whoever, they can't be a contender in 3 years?

There's a difference between having expectations that young players behave in a professional manner and elevating grinders to some high status that they don't deserve. Bowman expected players to work at both ends of the ice, but he still allowed his skilled players to be creative and wanted to keep the puck as much as possible. Blashill seems to be content to try to win games 2-1 and get out shot by a wide margin most games, as long as they don't get blown out and look competitive. Hard work is great, but when a player doesn't have the talent to go with it, he shouldn't be looked at like he's some key contributor.

They have a good potential base in Larkin, AA, Mantha, Svechnikov, and Cholowski. Dekeyser, Tatar, Nyquist are all still fairly young complimentary players. There are a few young guys who can fill out the bottom of the roster. If Larkin ends up as a legit #1 center and Mantha as a #1 winger, and they can find a #1 D and a goalie they can trust long term, or at least until Petruzelli is ready, they could have a contender in 3 years.

that doesn't help when you have Kenny "Gotta play it safe" Holland in charge It shouldn't need to take more thaqn 2 or 3 years if they were smart about it. Now Holland has them backed into a corner

At 9th overall he better be better than a top 6 forward, he better be a top line forward

Nope. Plug the numbers in. Swap Sproul with Frk or Svechnikov and it doesn't change the numbers. They'll be over the cap with 23 players just losing Sheahan. 13F: Zetterberg, Larkin, Nielsen, Abdelkader, Helm, Glendening, Tatar, Nyquist, Mantha, AA (at $2mil) Witkowski, Bertuzzi, Frk 8D: Daley, Dekeyser, Green, Kronwall, Ericsson, XO, Jensen, Sproul 2G:Howard, Mrazek Sheahan traded for a pick, Franzen to LTIR Wings are $303,334 over the cap

Trading Sheahan gets them below the cap if they carry 22 players

No, he's not one of their best players. I like the kid, but he's probably going to top out as a 45-ish point secondary scorer, similar level as Tatar and Nyquist, both of whom were overhyped at one point as well. That being said, Holland has completely screwed the pooch this off season. Let's assume AA ends up with a $2 mil cap hit, similar to Sheahan. They send Sproul down so they can run with 7 D and 14 F. Svechnikov and Frk make the team. Tatar, Zetterberg, Nyquist, Abdelkader, Nielsen, Mantha, Svechnikov, Larkin, AA, Helm Glendening, Sheahan, Witkowski, Frk Daley. Dekeyser, Green, Ericsson, Kronwall, Jensen, XO Howard, Mrazek That puts them roughly $2 mil OVER the cap, after Franzen takes his trip to LTIR land. And Holland's plan seems to be hoping for someone who makes enough money to matter to be on LTIR for the year, which means someone who makes at least $3 mil because they'll need $975k or so to bring in a replacement unless they keep 22 players on the active roster all year. And that team has one first line caliber forward and zero top pair caliber D and 2 goalies who are huge question marks, plus a head coach who appears to be completely clueless. But ownership trusts Holland's plan. Zetterberg 4 more years, Tatar 4 more years, Abdelkader 6 more years, Nielsen 5 more years, Nyquist 2 more years, Helm 4 more years, Glendening 4 more years, Dekeyser 5 more years, Kronwall 2 more years, Ericsson and Daley 3 more years, XO and Jensen 2 more years, Weiss on the books 4 more years, Howard 2 more years. And they have to decide about Sheahan and Mrazek, plus extend Larkin and Mantha. Well done Kenny.

Teams cannot reacquire a player they lost to Vegas for a year

Unless they're lying publicly, which is a possibility, that isn't the case though. Nothing I've seen has said anything but he fully expects to be ready to go at the start of the year.

not if he's as healthy as everyone says I think he will do something stupid like trade Mrazek for a bag of pucks right before the season starts because he'll be hoping for some miracle injury and then will be stuck

Not every injury qualifies for LTIR

Oh really? They've never been this far over, other than one year after they brought Samuelsson back. Over the cap has always accounted for Franzen and that's about it. Who's going to be on LTIR? Kronwall and the team say he's playing this year. Everyone else is either healthy or just has some minor issues that needed to be taken care of over the summer. Their current salary minus Franzen leaves them over the cap with only 22 players on the roster once AA gets a deal. That doesn't work.

Sheahan and a 3rd doesn't come close to a first rounder. Might get a second. Despite the rumors I doubt anyone was all that interested in him at the deadline. But yeah, they need to do something. Despite what krsmith thinks, it's not going to magically fix itself, and LTIR isn't a viable plan.