Neomaxizoomdweebie

'96 Panthers?

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying you don't put skill players on the PK. Z and D could do it, because they were both really good 2 way players. Larkin fits into that mold which is why he is used. Mantha is more of a power forward type, and you don't really see guys like that on the PK. He's more in the mold of a Hull or Shanahan, and I don't recall either of those 2 ever being used on the PK. Mantha may be decent defensively, but like Hull or Shanny, I wouldn't describe him as a 2 way forward. AA is more of a speed guy like Helm, but with more offensive ability. Not sure I would prefer AA on the PK until he improves his defense. If/when he does, he would be a good fit there. And unlike Helm, he hopefully pots a few shorties on his breakaway chances.

Maxim Kuznetsov. That guy had a high ceiling.

It would appear that the "Swedish mafia" is expanding to become the "Scandinavian mafia". Kiss the ring of Don Zetta!

Mantha isn't on the PK and shouldn't be on the PK because there are at least 4 other forwards on the roster who are more suited for it. The best analogy I can think of is the mid 90's Lions. Barry Sanders is the best RB to ever play the game. He was certainly better than Mel Gray. Despite that, the Lions didn't use Sanders as a kick returner, that's what they had Mel Gray for. Could you imagine the uproar if the Lions threw Sanders out there on a kick return and he suffered a catastrophic injury? That's why you have special teams guys. The PK is basically a special team. That's why you have guys like Helm, Miller, Glendening, etc. You don't put Mantha out there.

First bold: Yes, I was referring to Cole, de Haan, etc. not Carlson. I am not opposed to signing Carlson btw, I agree that he is a top pairing D (on any team), but he's more of a 2nd tier guy. My concern is that he ends up getting top tier pay. Wings can't afford to get into that sort of bidding war. 2nd bold: In terms of Cole's salary, he signed a 3 year deal for 6.3 mil. DeHaan's deal was for one year. Somehow in my brain that turned into Cole making 6.3 mil on a one year deal . Which would be a lot for a 2nd pair guy for sure, but that's where I got that number from. Although considering recent deals for defensemen last year, I think he gets more than 4 mil. That would be less than what Brendan Smith and Ericsson are getting. Cole's better than both, IMO. Based on that, I think he gets 4.75 or more. 3rd bold; I agree. I also think the chances of him coming back are better than people think. https://www.si.com/nhl/2015/11/15/mike-green-detroit-red-wings-washington-capitals 4th bold: 7x7 is not a bad deal at all, but I would be more comfortable with 5 years, and I don't think he would sign for that. Besides, it only takes one idiot GM to overpay beyond that. Holland should walk away at that point. Maybe we could pair Leturnover with Errorson.

I am no expert on the prospects by any means, but I was going to post something similar. My plan, regardless of draft position, would be in this order: 1: Draft Dahlin if available 2. If Dahlin is gone, draft Svechnikov if available 3. If Dahlin and Svech are gone, draft Boqvist or Hughes if available 4. If all of those 4 are gone, draft one of Tkachuk or Zadina 5. If the Wings get really bad luck on the draw (likely), and all 6 are gone, throw darts

I chose B. Wings won 4 cups in just over ten years and have been going downhill for almpst another 10. I wouldnt even mind another 10 years of suck if it meant another 4 cups in 10 years thereafter.

just a few thoughts: 1. Shattenkirks contract is an outlier. he took less money and term to play for the team he wanted. he would have gotten a lot more if he chose to chas the money. using his contract to predict Carlsons is pointless. 2. Why would we consider adding more 2nd pairing dmen? Would you say that we have a "plethora of pinatas", I mean 2nd pair guys? Dekeyser, Daley, Ericsson even if u trade Green. This team needs top pair guys. 3. Why would u buyout Ericsson to replace him with more expensive 2nd pair guys. A guy like Cole will cost like 6+ mil to keep. Add Ericssons 2+ mil buyout penalty to that and ur essentially paying 8+ mil for a guy like Cole. Is he worth twice what Ericsson is already making? No. 4. The reason you dont take less than a 3rd for Green is because you basically lose any chance of re-signing him if you ship out of town for a few weeks for little return. That would be a dick move by Holland, plus every other GM would smell blood in the water. 5. Why wouldn't Green want to re-sign here? We weren't a good team when he signed before. I would like to have him back. 6. No top name dman in UFA has lived p to his contract since Suter. If you can get Carlson for fair value, I am down with that but someone is going to overpay. I would rather it not be Holland.

No, Daryl Johnston.

This is exactly why Larkin is untouchable to me. He is just a great kid. He doesn't even realize he's a star athlete. I witnessed him waving back to kids from the ice at training camp when no other players did. I saw him skate from the bench side across the ice to give his broken stick to a kid in the stands there. That kid will remember that for the rest of his/her life. I didn't see anyone else doing that. Larkin is the most down to earth player I have ever seen. He should stay in Detroit until he retires. I wouldn't trade him for anyone. Some things are just more important to me than wins. You just summed up 3 pages of posts in 8 words. Well done.

Which only strengthens the argument that he just isn't good and there is no bias against him. IF Mrazek was any good that would give them 2 reasons to give him more starts. 1: Mrazek gives them a better chance to win (and make the playoffs) 2: It raises his stock/trade value. He isn't starting because: 1: Howard gives them a better chance to win (and make the playoffs) 2: It would lower his trade value if other teams saw bad Mrazek is playing. Does anyone still think that they're deliberately playing Howard over Mrazek in order to lose games and keep Mrazek's stock low?

I took the 3rd bold as a continuation of the narratives, not a reality separate from it. I misunderstood the assignment. Sorry Teach. If we had a Matthews caliber player, we would be closer to Toronto, yes. And if we had a Matthews caliber player, we would certainly have a brighter future, yes. Those are both hypothetical realities? (is that an oxymoron?) But the "perception" of this team by outsiders would not change, even with Matthews. People would just say that "they're a team on the decline with a stud to rebuild with" unless other changes are made as well: trading away high salary veterans, new coach, new GM, etc. Then "perception" would change. This is all just my 2 cents tho, and it's entirely possible I'm still doing it wrong.

Don't do it.

Do it.

I agree, but do you think it will be perceived that way if there are no coaching or management changes? I am not saying the Wings need a top to bottom overhaul (although some are). I just think people see this team steadily declining over the past 5-7 years and see the same basic roster, GM, etc and don't see a team on the rise. That could change with a new coach, and some veteran contracts being moved (which will probably require a new GM). Bring in a new influx of kids, start heading in the opposite direction points wise, and I think people's perception of this team will change. Adding a guy like Dahlin will help. But I do not know one fan of any other team who consider the Wings an "up and coming" team, but there are many who believe that about Toronto. And I don't think subtracting Z and adding Matthews would change that perception. It would take a lot more. Would you take him over Toews? I would.

I added the link to the article: http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/12/14/which-teams-should-trade-for-red-wings-petr-mrazek/ You're not getting a 2nd for Howard. If you can get one for Mrazek and still keep the better goalie, you do it. Why would you keep Mrazek under those circumstances? This is a rebuild right? Trade who you can for what you can.

Actually I think Leftwinger is close. Goalies weren't as much in demand at the time of the expansion draft. The fact that teams are even considering Mrazek now implies that that's changed. Craig Custance was saying that he thought Mrazek could fetch a 3rd round pick even at full salary and James O'Brien a 2nd round pick if the Wings pick up part of the salary. There are actually 6 teams who might be interested right now. http://nhl.nbcsports.com/2017/12/14/which-teams-should-trade-for-red-wings-petr-mrazek/ If he can get a 2nd, you have to think that even the most stubborn Mrazek supporters would like that.

I don't think its as much a roster change as it is a management and coaching change in Toronto. The Leafs were bad for years before the finally cleaned house from President all the way down to the roster. Lamoriello, Shanahan, Babcock were all brought in for a complete overhaul. Then they got rid of guys like Phaneuf and Kessel and kept younger guys like Bozak, Kadri, and JVR to start a rebuild. It helps to draft a big ticket like Matthews, but they've also drafted and developed guys like Marner, Nylander, and Liljegren. Those are all the reasons why the Leafs are seen as rebuilding and "up and comers". The Wings on the other hand have done none of those things. Devellano and Holland are still running the ship. Yes, there was a coaching change, but that was "in house". All the veterans are still here. They haven't traded away guys like Zetterberg, Kronwall, Ericsson, or Helm for picks and prospects. Datsyuk would've never been traded either as long as he wanted to be here. And even though there are some younger guys being brought into the lineup, none of them are at the level of a Matthews. They haven't been bad for years and stockpiled picks and prospects. Those are the reasons why the Wings aren't seen as "rebuilding" but instead are seen as a team on the way down. In regards to whether or not switching Z for Matthews would change that, I would say no. The Leafs have done all of the other things to be seen as a team on the rise. Even with Matthews, the Wings haven't done anything else to be seen any differently than they already are.

Considering the fact that there is interest in him and KH seems like he wants to trade Mrazek, it speaks volumes as to how lowly management regards him right now. Think about it, if you're trying to trade a guy, you usually play him so that other teams can scout and evaluate him. The fact that Mrazek isn't being played tells me that the team is actually worried that doing so would lower his trade value or cause teams to lose interest all together. There is no bias or conspiracy NOT to play him, its just that they feel its safer to limit his starts to keep his value up, as strange as that sounds.

It's really an either/or. Can't keep spending over $9 million on goalies. Mrazek will be an RFA and if he's re-signed, both he and Howard will be making too much for either to be backups. So one has to be traded. Mrazek is an RFA on an expiring contract, he is younger, cheaper, consistently healthy, and inconsistent, but some will still believe he's worth taking a chance on. Howard still has one year left after this year, then he becomes an UFA. He's more expensive, older, and you know what you're getting. Mrazek is just the easier of the 2 to trade right now.

That's been the case for years tho, and nothing has changed. Yes, the Oilers have some good talent. But they've had good young talent for YEARS with little to show for it. They've been in rebuild mode for as long as I can remember, and the poster child for how NOT to do it. They've had tradable assets for years too. How many of their lottery picks have they traded away now? And now there are rumors of them trading away RNH too. Despite all of their trades, I haven't seen any real improvements (although I don't follow them admittedly). They may have more young pieces or even better young pieces, but their years of ineptitude makes me skeptical. Could they become a contender before the Wings? Yes. But I don't think so. And I don't think Mrazek changes that. But if you follow them, maybe you know something I don't.

That's a D I want to see to.

Thanks. I was having an emo moment.

I sensing a different theme tonight. So goals for David Booth, Dylan Larkin, and Darren Helm. More D's please.