Neomaxizoomdweebie

I picked Byfield. He's only 17 and already 6'4" and 215 lbs. He's the only true center in the top 5 besides Rossi. He averaged almost 2 points per game in the OHL this past season. He's being compared to Malkin. He's also the consensus #2 overall pick on many sites.

First

I think both.

Lindros just didn't want to play in Quebec City. Not a problem now because: 1. Players don't do this anymore. 2. Players actually want to play in Detroit. 3. Quebec doesn't have a team anymore.

I thought you wanted to be kept out of this.

I literally gave you a comparable in terms of how I see Zadina panning out. Being as that Zadina's future hasn't happened yet, giving an example of another's player's career that has taken shape seems like a reasonable model to show this. This is literally how projections work. I don't understand your confusion. My take on Zadina is that his development is slower than expected, but I see nothing that tells me he won't still develop into a top line forward. His defense needs some work (not at all unusual for young, offensive forwards at the NHL level). He would benefit by having a better center, and is not at the level where he is going to generate a lot of points on his own. He also will probably get a lot of his points on the PP, and will be more dependant on that then I would like. My overall take, as I said in my last post, is that he will continue to increase his point total each season, and will become a 60 point player within 3 years. This is a better track than what you see, but is not at all unrealistic.

Agreed. I always thought the criticism of E was often unwarranted. He was tasked with playing above his skill set on a regular basis. And because he was used as a 2nd pair D, he was fairly paid for it, even tho his play wasn't at that level.

If I'm picking 2nd and I believe Laf is the BPA in the draft. If the team with 1st overall wants my #2 pick, plus one of my best prospects, and another pick. Why would I do that? Is Lafreniere worth Stutzle/Rossi/Byfield + another one of my best prospects+ another pick? If I'm a rebuilding team (which I likely would be picking that high), I am not giving up 3 quality assets to build with for 1 who is only slightly better than any one of the assets I'm giving up.

You want substance? Ok. After less than a half seasons worth of games. Zadina is at a .5 PPG pace as a 20 year old rookie. That's a small sample size. And it only translates to a 40-45 point season. Low end 2nd liner. If you think he's peaked at 20, then yeah, trade him. I personally think he's got a lot more potential. I don't think he plateaus at a Hudler/Nyquist level tho. As a comparison, I give you fellow Czech Jakub Vrana. He's roughly the same size as Zadina. Was drafted 13th overall in 2014. Is currently 24 and in his 4th season. Vrana made the NHL at 20 just like Zadina. In his first full season, he only scored 27 points in 73 games. Then 47 points in 82 games and was on pace to finally break 60 points this season. And he was playing on a line with Backstrom which probably padded his numbers a bit. Zadina was already on pace as a rookie to match Vranas 3rd year numbers while not having anyone as good as Backstrom as his center. And while it took Vrana 4 seasons to break 60 points, I think Zadina will break 60 points by age 23. This is the trajectory I see for Zadina.

I mean, he can try. But you have to have a partner to dance. So if there aren't any takers for that pick, you can't be upset at SY that he just picked the guy he wants. FWIW, I don't think we'll see anybody picking 2-4 attempt trade up. Even if you really like Laff, there are some really good consolation prizes that wouldnt make the assets required to move up to get him worth it.

So E is a hero then.

Can a 7th rounder be a bust?

Are you guys worried at all that he won't play center at the NHL level? If he's going to end up being a winger, and he's picked over Lafreniere, I think that would be a mistake. The only way I take him first is if I'm confident that 1C is in his future. So far, Zadina has not been the player we hoped we were getting. So by definition, disappointing would be accurate. But, 1. He may still develop into a top line winger, which would not be disappointing at all. 2. "Disappointment" and "bust" are two entirely different things.

I'll give you Anaheim. I would also include the Kariya, Selanne Ducks as well. San Jose, on the other hand, was far too good for far too long, to not have a Cup victory. IDK if it was bad luck, choke jobs, or what, but they were certainly good enough to do it. And lesser teams during that time did win Cups. I don't think they're the same.

My point is that a player can fail to live up to the hype and still not be a "bust". Many of the players I listed, including Zadina fall into that middle ground. Not good enough to be elite, but not bad enough to be a bust. My point was to show that over the last 10 or 15 drafts that 6th overall picks range from non-NHLers (Filatov) to top forwards and top pair D (Tkachuk, OEL). And calling Zadina a bust because he's not at the elite level would be false, because then most 6th overall picks would then be "busts". And I think it's safe to say that busts are by definition, the rare exception, not the often rule.

This is exactly why you get blowback from so many of us. You and Mackel keep using the word "bust". Yes, it's a subjective term, but to use it to describe Zadina is still inaccurate IMO. I mean, fellow Red Wing Sam Gagner was a former 6th overall pick. Is he a bust? And if not, then how is Zadina one? Other 6th overall picks since Gagner range from to Nikita Filatov, Brent Connolly, and Mika Zabinejad, to OEL, Hampus Lindholm, and Matthew Tkachuk. Other 6th overall picks during that time frame are Pavel Zacha, Cody Glass, Sean Monahan, and Jake Virtanen. I would currently put Zadina at 6th on that list. Behind OEL, Zabinejad, Lindholm, Tkachuk, and Monahan, but ahead of the rest. And I think he will still bet better. So if Zadina is a "bust", then what are the rest of the players on that list? What is Zadina? Not the elite winger we were hoping for, but still a solid top 6 winger who is only going to better. Hardly a bust. Which just makes you and Mackel sound like trolls whenever you refer to him as such.

But the point is that Buffalo made the kind of trade that you're advocating for and it didn't work out for them. This is exactly what could happen if the Wings make those kinds of deals. And we'd be worse off for it. I actually think we'd be more successful building thru the draft and supplementing what are sure to be high draft picks for the next few years with the Manthas, Larkins, and Zadinas instead of "hoping" that we get better players by trading them. We all agree that Larkin is at least a 2C, right? Zadina and Mantha are top 6 wingers, right? And we were still the worst team in the league with those guys. So u want to trade them for picks in order for us to be worse? You literally can't be worse than last place. And we could then end up with draft picks that don't return us a 2C or better, or 2 top 6 wingers. How would that make this team better?

Oh. So you need veterans to win Cups. I thought we were supposed to trade everyone away for draft picks.

McDavid was drafted 1st overall. Draisaitl was drafted 3rd overall. You aren't getting a 1st or 3rd overall for any of Mantha, Larkin, or Zadina. That's the problem. I agree with you. Feeling a bit nauseous now.

Here's the problem. Buffalo's return for ROR was Patrik Berglund (32) and Vlad Sobotka (31); both of whom are aging middle 6 to bottom 6 forwards, a former 2016 1st round pick (Tage Thompson) who still hasn't cracked the NHL, a 2019 1st round pick (31st overall which is basically a 2nd rounder) in Ryan Johnson, who will doubtfully ever be as good as ROR, and a 2021 2nd round pick (see previous). Who do you honestly think won that trade? Hint: It wasn't the rebuilding team who traded away their younger, less than elite, but very good center. Do you think Buffalo might be regretting that trade? I do. And I don't want to be another Buffalo. Apparently there are only 2 choices on Zadina. Either you think he's an absolute bust or the next Pavel Bure. Mackel is the former. Apparently you are the latter.

How r u still single? Except Ottawa is in the same boat and wouldn't trade those picks for exactly the same reason.

96-0 would leave them 2 games shy of a Stanley Cup win.

Just watched episode 3. Ewwwwww.

I guarantee that one of our 2nds would be going back. Throw in Flip (expiring contract) and Bowey or Timo (RFAs) with it for Strome and a 2020 fifth. I would do that.

Glenny has more experience, more offense, and is a RH shot. I would give him the edge now. I believe Ehn will become the next Glendening in a few years.