The 91 of Ryans

Such a fair comparison

The tank is back on!!!

That was ugly

Sounds like McIssac and Veleno may both make Team Canada's WJC team.

Yeah. I don't think he looked great in Detroit to start the season. But he's been incredible down in GRs. We'll see what he's made of over the next month or so.

Finally

Uhhhhhhhh you and Kip basically begged me to make an assessment on Veleno. I reluctantly did so. And made this pretty clear. So nice try. Don't worry. You're still the Craig Button around these parts. I won't be challenging you for this role. Keep reaching for the stars man.

IMO, Green has been this team's third best player behind Larkin and Howard. I agree with you though. This will be great for Hronek, and great for the team's long-range goals.

It could be Veleno sure. But maybe it isn't? I'm in the "I'm don't know the answer to this camp". You seem to be in the "I've made up my mind about this camp" Unlike you guys I'm not a scout or an expert on prospects so I don't know where Veleno "tops out". If I had to make something up or manifest some reality or narrative to exist in, from a fan perspective, (which no one around here ever does eh?) I'd say to me he looks like a defensively responsible center with good play-making upside with 2C ceiling, 4C floor. Just like I'm no scout, I'm also no statistician. But I'd say the average between 2 and 4 is 3 no? Are commentators really uniformed idiots if they think that's what he projects? A 3rd line center in the NHL? And would that even be so bad? He'd probably end up being an above-average 3C who is hopefully slotted there because Larkin and Hughes/Cozens etc are 1 and 2. Also, with regards to the bolded part: the longer you keep saying that, the harder it's going to be to admit that you were wrong you know.

I wasn't bitching and moaning. I was laughing. Big diff. And I don't do it every time. Just every now and then. I'm actually pretty even-handed. I don't typically over-hype and I'm not really a hater either. Other than the odd call-out when I think bias or devotion is skewing opinion, I have zero agenda. There are more polarizing opinions on here than mine, and more emotion-based irrational discussions than this one. I never said I wasn't high on Veleno. I merely said that I have my reservations about how good he'll be because part of me believes that a whole s***-ton of NHL scouts saw something in his game that they didn't see translating well to the pro level. How hard is that to understand? I also said that (because of this) maybe you guys are hyping him too much. How hard is this to understand? It's not, right? f***, I'm probably wrong. At least it seems like my opinion is very unpopular based on the responses in this thread. You made your point several times. Now you're just dragging this out because you're all poopy that I was giving you a hard time.

ALANIS (from Ottawa) HYPE!!!!

You do it all the time man. Someone chimes in on a prospect and out you come. You might not be as blunt and as much of a jerk as me, but there you are. Christ you even had a bet with that fool about Sambrook (I think). Sambrook!!!!!! Who the f*** really knows anything about any of our prospects let alone some kid taken in the 5th round. Like you'd know. I can probably tell you, even just from casual observation, who you're "high" on and who you've not. Because you're constantly telling us. Excuse me for saying that you, and others, might be overrating Veleno. Same way I've been calling BS on Mantha being a 30 goal scorer. It is a Red Wings site and we're all Red Wings fans (although some members seem like bigger fans of themselves than the Wings - but I digress). And believe it or not we are having a hockey discussion here. You hype Joe, call other GMs idiots for not drafting him, and I'm pumping the breaks. It's really all that's going on.

Cool. I'm ready to move on if you are. I'll be going to see Veleno play in January when Drum rolls through. (Just like I did with Mantha - who actually was lazy and sucked that night - and just like I did with Svechnikov - who was great) Maybe I'll wear my Rasmussen Jersey. Anyway I apologize for giving you s*** for getting excited about Veleno. Don't go to sleep mad.

If Veleno flops you'll blame the org. for mismanagement. I have no interest in telling you "I told you so" I'm not "cautious" about prospects. I'm just "adult" about them. You know, not overzealous. I don't really give a f*** about any of this. But it's clear that slights on Veleno trigger you as much Mantha criticism does. So I shall steer clear of the subject. We seem to agree on plenty of other topics.

1. Don't ever compare me to frank 2. Hearing you call Jurco a bum now after suffering through all the hype-smoke you blew up hizzazzz from his draft year until they shipped him off to Chicago? This, my friend, should serve as your cautionary tale.

Sure there's reason to believe he'll outperform his draft position. There's also reason to believe that 2/3rds of the league's amateur scouts, who had probably seen him a lot, obviously had doubts about his ability to translate success in the Q to the pros. I know he's been ripping it up right now post-draft, so we'll see. My point is that we'll see. But I suppose I should stop being a jerk and just let everyone enjoy his shootout goal in that WJC training camp exhibition game. And I really don't need to know anyone's thoughts on why he slid in the draft.

I'm not undervaluing Veleno at all. This whole thing started with a joke about his stupid shootout goal in a training camp for a team he probably won't make - which his biggest supporters here agree with by the way. THEN I asked a legit question which no one could answer: "why did he slide so hard in the draft" ANYWAY you and @krsmith17 were both wrong about Rasmussen so why should I listen to either of you on this?

Alright alright. I give. Totally wasn't trying to jurco you around. I was just trying to rekindl some decent debate on here. I think you guys just smithed my point a little. I really am pulkining for Veleno to do well. I was just sheanan silly. Rock n' Sproul boys. Rock n' Sproul.

Sure it is. Just not blindingly so. The knock on him was his shot I believe. I'll wait to see how he gets along vs pro goalies before I start gloating and calling other analysts "idiots" for trying to explain why he fell in the draft.

In lieu of some sort of real explanation.

I think there has to be a real reason he fell in the draft. You don't. Except I trust the opinion of all the GMs and their amatuer scouting staffs who passed on him more than I trust you opinion that they were wrong. It's nothing personal.

Yup. He sure dangled the hell out of no one there. Pretty standard looking hands and release to me. Pretty sure if Veleno fed the correct change into a vending machine you'd be singing his praises and handing him the #2 C postion with the Red Wings in 2020.

BOTH!

Agreed. That team has 4 star forwards. One could argue that 3 of them are superstars. It's ridiculous to think they need anything to get them over the hump. They have to get themselves over the hump. But a guy like Kronwall would provide the calming influence and experience to help them get there. ANYWAY, this is all just talk. Ain't happening.