Wings_Dynasty

You know what's messed up, he probably would have spent a season in GR with the Wings.

I'm going to vent my anger in this post and leave it at that. I can't control the team in any way and I have to get over that and just try to not swear in front of my children when a player I think shouldn't be on the team fouls up. Dan Cleary shouldn't be a Red Wing right now. I don't care how much he loves the organization. I don't care if he got the fictional "hometown discount." This is a business and he got what he got because that is what he is worth in the real world. Teams overpay for UFAs all the time because they think that they will be a cure-all for their problem (Leino, Suter & Parise, etc). Philly almost proved that point the way I understand the situation. The fans on BOTH the Flyers and Wings side were crying/laughing about the deal. "OVERPAYMENT!" they shouted with anger/glee. This is an unbiased assessment of Cleary's worth. His UFA price was too high. So, he took a "discount" and stayed with the Wings. And we talk of loyalty. KH knows he is over the player limit and signed a player. That is not a good environment for the other forwards. Don't get me wrong, there should be competition in camp and players shouldn't be under the impression that they have a guranteed spot on the 3rd or 4th lines. I shouldn't be able to tell you who will be on the 3rd and 4th lines right now and neither should Holland and Babcock. But for some reason, I can fill 2 of those 6 slots right now. Sammy and Cleary. No 3rd or 4th liner should have an NTC. NTCs should be for top tier guys so they will be not be uprooted by their org. and moved to Winnepeg so their previous team can get some young talent and do a rebuild. The majority of the 3rd and 4th lines in this organization with this cap should be reserved for youth. Guys being brought up from GR to fill in for injuries and during other 3rd and 4th liner slumps. This is the biggest flaw with Sammy's contract. The price was decent and length is OK. He was OK in VAN. Good enough to put with the Sedins on occasion. The Wings needed a righty and knew what kind of player he is. Not a bad signing. Better than the Cleary signing IMO. We know Cleary is on the decline and still signed him. But now we need players (older players) to leave and make room for youth (Tatar, Nyquist) and they can't be moved. At least two of these things WILL happen: - Bert dropped - Tootoo dropped to GR/traded - Tatar traded - Nyquist (Datsyuk 2.0) plays in GR until an injury - Eaves traded (EDIT: Forgot him) IMO, if I could, I would get rid of Sammy and Cleary. It won't happen. So we are left with the above scenarios. In all honesty, the thing I don't want to happen will most likely happen. Tootoo will be traded and Nyquist will play in GR. If Helm continues to have issues, we MIGHT not lose Tatar to a trade. But if Helm plays, Tatar is gone. IMO the Wings have 3 NHL-caliber players that have had playing time that they can get offers for on the block: Emmerton, Nyquist, and Tatar. Emmerton will be in GR, and I think Nyquist is too good to be traded after last season. That leaves Tatar to be offered up to make room for Cleary and Sammy, following Tootoo being dealt to NSH for picks. That's how it has to be now. On top of it all, we get older, smaller, softer, and slower. And we get to play in the East. Ok, I'm done. In Kenny I trust... I guess.

GURANTEED that Tatar gets traded for picks now. And most likely Tootoo is dropped/demoted (WTF!!!). Only option for a GM who wants to keep everyone he can from last year and still have all the youngsters play in addition to signing two wingers. So... Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader Franzen-Weiss-Alfie I can go with that. That looks promising even though the 1st line is missing a real sniper (Hull, Hossa, etc). Then this clusterflop. Sammy-Helm(maybe)-Nyquist/Cleary/Bert Tootoo/Miller-Andersson-Tatar/Eaves/someone I'm forgetting

Tatar is going to be traded. Cleary just finalized that.

Who do you think will get to 700 (regular season) goals first? Jagr has a slight lead with 681 to Selanne's 675. He has a 252 more regular season assists than Selanne with only 4 more regular season games played. And the second question, who would you rather see end up with the higher total? At this point I see them as pretty much the same player. They are one-dimensional, ex-elite snipers with too many miles on their engines that you don't want open in the slot. I think they have had similar careers (being both faces of franchises and hired guns, Jagr more the latter). For me, I would rather see Selanne on top. For some reason I guess seeing him against the Wings more with the Ducks, Sharks, and Avs has given me more respect for his play. Kariya and Selanne ending up on the Avs at the same time pissed me right off. Plus, I guess Jagr's recent league-hopping (both with NHL and KHL teams) has put me off to his accomplishments. I think if he would have accepted a contract with the Pens instead of NJ (as sickening as it is) I would have had more respect for him finishing his career in PIT.

Pros and cons of this proposal: PROS: - Tootoo is more cap friendly - Fans don't get to see Cleary relied on/treated like a part of the offense - An actual "sheriff" if one of our stars gets run - Energy - (Half-serious) PK gets more practice for the post-season (sounds ridiculous, but sound. Teams with good PK do better in the playoffs). CONS: - Lose a net-front presence on 2nd PP (easily filled by Bert if healthy) - Train whistles may still show up - More fighting??? Is this a con to people still? - Lose a LGW whipping boy (2 in one summer may be bad (adios Flip, but Sammy is still on the team...)

I like the runner-up jersey design better.

Since some people seem to be confused with the thread title, I officially re-dub it: Keep Tootoo, Please Kenny DO NOT Sign UFA Cleary As Some Media Outlets Have Reported That You Wish To Do Because He Is A Drain On The Team And The Cap And Tootoo Would Be Better For The Team On The Fourth Line Than Cleary Would Be On The Third.

I know that this is off topic (kinda) but the only retired player that is a former Wing that fulfills all of my personal requirements for a number retirement (games played, personal accomplishments, Stanley Cups, standing with fans, and ability to steal games) is... ... I know what's coming... ... and let me preface this in saying that I do not think that this will happen... ... Chris Osgood.

Ok, here's his Wikipedia page summarized down to the reasons he is up there and Shanny won't be. Bolded areas are of particular distinction. So besides the 3 Lady Byngs and being basically the second greatest non-goaltending Red Wing (behind his linemate Gordie Freakin' Howe) until Yzerman and Lidstrom finished their careers he has no other reason to be up there.

Name an individual performance award he won.

I'm glad they're not as popular as the Lions or Tigers. Makes getting tickets easier.

Most entertaining: *Kronwall Most effective over the course of a game: Abby Person I wouldn't want to be hit by: Tootoo Best overall (considering being caught out of position the least, effectiveness, game-changing ability, legality / form, and overall impact): *Kronwall * he has his own verb

It's not ALWAYS about stats. Darren McCarty has 4 Cups and 2 of the biggest goals in modern Wings history (3/26/97 OT winner and 97 Cup winner) and the Lemieux beatdown. He has a place of honor with fans but his number will never be retired. This is where Pavel and Hank currently sit. Honored but not legendary. Now if they could retire gloves then Pavel's would be in the rafters.

You're hilarious.

I think that Datsyuk and Zetterberg have not accomplished enough to have their numbers retired. At this point neither of them are on par even with Fedorov in terms of accomplishments and Fedorov's number will not be retired. Neither will Shanahan, Larionov, or even Osgood. And they have more Cups and personal accomplishments. I think if the Wings were a less storied franchise and didn't have Howe, Sawchuck, and Lindsay up in the rafters right now they would have a better chance. But this isn't Columbus or Buffalo. Detroit has had giants, and while Datsyuk and Z have been huge for their team, they are not HUGE like those other names.

They can be signed before camp starts. The Wings can also go over the cap by 10% this summer and still make trades later if they want.

So, will they boo?

Dallas and Detroit pursuing Cleary. Hopefully Dallas takes him. Thanks again, Nill. Brunner hitting market, anyone besides us expressing interest? Ribiero deal is ridiculous overpayment. Glad we get Alfie over him.

Can you post a quote or source? I didn't see that.

Pass. He got beat up by Crosby for God's sake.

If by "spontaneously combust" you mean become a defensive liability via turnovers and poor decision making with pinches and passes, then yes, he will burst into flames.

Cleary being re-signed is the worst thing I can think of to happen to this team right now. After that it's not signing a defenseman to replace Smith when he blows up halfway through the season.

How is this nobody worth $7+ mil / year?!

This.