Jimmybigrigs69

Next AA. He'll wash out.

Id argue howre u gonna do it? We dont have the cash or the assets

Youn mean Kris Draper?

4th line grinder = i wreck shop

I just realized Ken made his son assistant GM of the Oilers lol and his kid was working for the Maple Leafs back when Ken was still managing Detroit...

Canucks not re-signing Casey DeSmith. Id like this pickup for us. Cheap reliable backup goalie. Can step in if Lyon or Husso falter.

My guess is Holland was a better manager than he was a scout. Hence why he was promoted from amatuer scout to scouting director so quickly in 80s. And he was good at that role. Again, the nuts on him to go with part time scout Hakan Andersson's pick of Lidstrom in the 3rd was ballsy good work. Hakan had been driving cabs only a year before that. Holland knows how to use his people well. The brain drain in the 2010s killed that man. Suddenly his right hand men were Ryan Martin, Tyler Wright, and Jeff Blashill... Martin had no background in hockey. Wright is already no longer even employed in pro hockey. And Dan friggin Bylsma got another HC job before blash could. Bad people = bad results

Or they have several guys at the same rank. Like if you have 20 guys tied for what you think is the 40th best player, might be smart to trade down and get a buncha picks in the 35-50 range. But I think we're going to be trading up. Yzerman is kinda known for that.

I don't think Seider at 6 was as much of a surprise to teams, that it was to fans and the media. The DEL isn't a league teams focus on scouting heavily. Maybe a team has a German born amatuer scout on staff, but up till today I've never heard of one. Andersson I know spends at least the first half of the season at home scouting Sweden. Not until late in the year does he start venturing out to view the other countries prospects, like Finland, Russia, Czechia etc... I assume most scouts do something similar and Germany is probably a last stop low priority country. My guess is this is why the Seider selection came out of nowhere for the media. I didn't even know who he was until about a month before the draft, but when I did start finding out, I was like oh damn this kids got stud written all over him. So im doubting the media had up to date info on Mo. And that's yet another example of teams not using McKenzie and CSS to draft their players lol. Friggin CSS had Mo ranked as the 6th european skater... guys ahead of him haven't even made the league yet and he's at 250 games played already. Great work by the scouts who couldnt get a job from a Pro or Junior team over there at CSS. Real reliable stuff I can use for drafting.

You literally selected only the mock drafts that had him low, and then used that as the premise of your argument. I don't care how many mocks you read. I'm telling you your premise is wrong, because you selected a narrow amount of information to base it on. "I thought no one paid attention to draft rankings." Ummmm... I do? Because I'm a fan... not a scout of an NHL team? I literally detailed what it is to you, and why it exists, already.

Holland traded Vernon away almost immediately upon taking over. And Holland ran every draft from 87 to 97. He's literally directly responsible for drafting Fedorov, Lidstrom, Konstantinov, Kozlov, Osgood, Knuble, Primeau, Lapointe, Sillinger, McCarty, Drake, and Holmstrom. I also find it funny that you credit Andersson with Datsyuk and Zetterberg. But you don't consider the fact that Lidstrom and Holmstrom were also Andersson, not Jimmy Devellano. Oh and Klima, Kozloz, Fedorov, and Konstantinov... those were masterminded by Jim Lites, not Jimmy D. Do you still think Devellano drafted Steve Yzerman? Sorry to tell you, but that was Neil Smith. Probert and Kocur were both Neil Smith. Shanahan, Fetisov, Murphy, Maltby, Larionov, and Vernon trades all happened when Jimmy D gave GM responsibilities to Scotty Bowman. But do you know what trade Devellano did do? The Federko trade. Probably the worst trade in Red Wings history. But I guess he also did the best trade in Wings history when he got Draper for one dollar.... wait! Nope, that was Bryan Murray. Paul Coffey, Brad McCrimmon, and Dino Ciccarelli, also Bryan Murray. Now that I think about, the Wings were pretty much garbage under Devellano until Holland, Andersson, and Bowman came around. So really Devellano got handed an all star team by them. No wonder he had to step back in 97 and let Holland take over. Furthermore, Hakan Andersson was hired by Devellano based on the advice of Nick Polano and Crister Rockstrom. Devellano had never even met or spoken with Andersson before he hired him. The hiring was blind luck on Devellanos part. But do you know who Andersson credits with mentoring him and training him up to become a full time scout intead of a part timer who drives cab and guides fishermen? You guessed right: Ken Holland. So I guess you could say Ken is sorta responsible for Andersson's career? Boy, and aren't we lucky Holland actually had the nuts to listen to a part-time scout with no prior expierence only 1 year in, or we wouldn't have gotten Lidstrom in that draft. You can hate Holland for the failures post Lidstrom all you want, but that guy was an integral part of building all of the dynasty teams. And was the guy who successfully navigated us into the cap era to win more cups. He's in the HOF because smart folks responsible for that dont base their entire opinion of him on recency bias.

Nobody was convinced on Bertuzzi either, and boy he proved everyone wrong. And Mazur plays the same way. First year in GR and he's already ahead of the more offensive prospects in Kasper, Lombardi, and Soderblom on the score sheet. And he's nipping at Hirose's heels as well. Lowkey our most promising forward in GR.

Holland helped build every wings team from 1985 to 1997. He ran the draft for 10 of those years, and was AGM for 3 of them. Thats like saying Kronwall got handed a cup because Lidstrom was captain.

Correct me if Im wrong on any of this THE FIRST TRIUMVIRATE IS FORMED 1980 - Denise Illitch marries attorney Jim Lites, and Mike Illitch subsequently hires his son in law to be counsel for Little Ceasars. 1982 - Lites assists Mike in purchasing the Detroit Red Wings, where Lites also assumes the role of in house counsel. To run the franchise, Illitch and Lites manage to poach the mastermind behind the Islanders dynasty, Jim Devellano. 1985 - Working together, Lites and Devellano are able to mastermind Petr Klimas defection from the USSR to the USA and the Red Wings. This same year the Wings AHL goalie Ken Holland retires, and Devellano gives him an amatuer scouting position with the Wings. 1987 - Scout Ken Holland is promoted to Director of Amateur Scouting, and the first triumvirate, of Lites, Devellano, and Holland is formed. 1990 - Lites is promoted to VP of Hockey Ops Under these three the Red Wings would draft Lidstrom, Fedorov, Konstantinov, Konstantinov, Kozlov, Lapointe, Osgood, and McCarty, and manage the successful defections of the Russians. A solid portion of the eventual 97 and 98 cup teams. THE SECOND TRIUMVIRATE 1993 - Lites's wife was being a total B, so he divorced that skank. Because she was an Illitch, he decides it's best to find work elsewhere, and is hired by the Dallas Stars to be President and CEO. Thus ending the first triumvirate. But the timing couldn't have been better for this, because Devellano is able to hire living legend Head Coach Scotty Bowman the same year. Thus the second, and the most powerful, triumvirate of Devellano, Holland, and Bowman is formed. 1994 - Holland is promoted to Assistant General Manager, and Jim Nill, a pro scout from the Senators, is poached to replace Holland in Ken's old director roll. 1997 - After winning a cup, Devellano is promoted to President of the Wings org, and Holland becomes the new GM. 1998 - Holland promotes Nill to become his assistant GM. 2002 - Bowman retires from coaching, but stays on with the team in an advisory role. 2003 - Holland and Nill hire Joe Mcdonnell to take on draft duties as the new scouting director. 2005 - Holland and Nill poach coaching prodigy Mike Babcock from the Ducks. 2006 - Steve Yzerman retires and is hired to be the new VP of Hockey Ops. The seond triumvirate captures 4 cups. Including one in 2008 after shrewdly and successfully navigating the team into cap era. And a new future triumvirate is begining to form between the likes of Holland, Nill, Mcdonnell, Babcock and Yzerman. THE BRAIN DRAIN 2009 - Scotty Bowman leaves the team to instead advise his son, the GM of the BlackHawks. 2010 - Steve Yzerman, believing Jim Nill is next in line to run the team when Holland retires, leaves to cut his teeth elsewhere, and becomes GM of Tampa Bay. 2013 - Holland, after talking for years about retiring when Lidstrom does, opts not to. With this, Nill decides to seek promotion elsewhere, and he falls into the arms of former 1st triumvirate star Jim Lites, who hires him to become GM of the Dallas Stars. Jim takes with him to Dallas Scouting director Joe Mcdonnell among several other Detroit scouts. Tyler Wright is hired to replace Mcdonnell. 2015 - Seeing the front office gutted for 4 years and the team on the decline, Babcock decides to leave for the Maple Leafs coaching job. Rookie coach Jeff Blashill is hired to replace him. Suddenly all that remains is an aged Devellano, Holland, and two very green replacements in Blash and Wright. THE FALSE TRIUMVIRATE 2017 - After years of Blashill unable to get results from his veteran roster, Wright unable to replace the vets, and desperation contracts from Holland, the Illitch faimily finally authorizes a rebuild. 2019 - Holland and Chris Illitch orchestrate Yzermans return to manage the Franchise, so that Holland can move to President. However, after this is done, Holland is offered a GM job with an already loaded Oilers team and its too juicy to pass up. He leaves and takes Tyler Wright with him. Holland would fire Wright in Edmonton a few seasons later, as would Yzerman fire Blashill in Detroit.

Osgood only won with Detroit

He drafted Zetterberg and Datsyuk my guy

Friedman says Buffalos 1st is also in play

Utahs naming contest has narrowed it to: Yetis, Mammoth, Outlaws, Venom, Blizzard, and HC

Everywhere he goes he wins

I think you're on to something here

Friedman saying Canes may buyout Kotka

My suspicion was theyre still trying to pry Markstrom out of CGY. Throwing their 1st onto the market to drive up interest may get CGY to finally bite, before Boston trades them Ullmark or something.

Cossa - 2/1B Augustine - 2/1A Edvinsson - 3rd pair/2nd pair ASP - 3rd pair/1st pair Johansson - 7th/2nd pair Buium - 7th/2nd pair Wallinder - 7th/2nd pair Tuomisto - Europe/Europe Gibson - 7th/2nd pair An. Johansson - AHL/3rd pair Cleveland - AHL/3rd pair Danielson - 3rd C/1st C Berggren - 3rd LW/2nd LW Kasper - 4th C/2nd C Mazur - 4th RW/1st RW Lombardi - 3rd/2nd C Buchelnikov - Europe/2 LW Finnie - AHL/3rd C Soderblom - Europe/3rd LW

Kenny will soon have his 5th ring. Does everyone still think hes a terrible GM?

You cant be serious? You think CSS exists to direct teams on who to scout? Wild First off, CSS exists because in the expansion era teams couldnt afford robust scouting depts, or travel. So they created a scouting service to help. Back then rankings were private, but for like the last 30+ years CSS makes all their rankings public, because teams no longer rely on them for scouting needs. They are literally just a central database for the public. Seondly, CSS employs 15 scouts plus part timers. The wings alone have 15 full time amatuer scouts including Draper and Yzerman. And teams start scouting players wayyyyy before CSS does. Teams are scouting players as young as 14 and developing working draft lists for drafts well in the future. If anything CSS and the league likely rely on all 32 teams to give them rough direction on who to scout each year. And rest assured teams omit their gems, steals, and other inside tracks. Lastly, CSS only ranks draft eligble players based on skills (shooting, skating, etc) and how well those skills would translate to the NHL. They do not have meetings with players, coaches, or managers, they do not evaluate things like character, attitudes, potential, growth, practice habits, fitness, playing big in big moments, readiness for pros, on and on and on. Teams know way beyond what you, or I, or analysts, or CSS does.