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For those surprised to see Liv on the roster, don't be. He's a damn good goalie and would make a good backup in the NHL if he were still on this side of the pond. Three of Liv's last four seasons in Elitserien he has taken HV71 to the finals, winning in 2004 and 2008). In 2004 he did not allow a single goal in the finals. In World Championship play he has allowed 10 goals in 7 games, posting two shutouts. He was on the 2006 Swedish Olympic team as the second goalie, with a 2.00 GAA. Liv has been one of it not the top goalie in Elitserien for several years, and has played for Sweden every year in the WCs or the Olympics since he was 22, save for the 2002 Olympics, and the 2003 and 2007 World Championships. Sweden wanted him to start for the 2007 team, but he was unavailable as he was with the Griffins at the time. For Sweden to not name Liv would be unusual, given his performance in Elitserien and the lack of Swedish goaltenders with comparable skill in the NHL or elsewhere. I would honestly not be stunned to see Liv pursued by an NHL team during the summer, as he was a top prospect with the Wings and has shown quite a bit of skill in Sweden and internationally.

What has been said is basically on the mark regarding numbers; however one specific has been left off. Typically the starting goaltender would get the #1, typically the regular defense would be from 2-9, and the regular forwards would wear in the teens to the low 20s. The high 20s were reserved for when teams would have to bring in extra players due to injury, and the backup goaltender would wear between 30 and 35. With #1 being retired more and more often, the starter was then required to pick a number in the 30s. After that, it's basically been tradition as mentioned. Obviously there have been exceptions to the rule even when you go back a fair distance; such as Ted Lindsay and Gordie Howe wearing single digits. But a primary reason for the numbers based on position was so that players could immediately be recognized as a forward or defenseman, even when the line of sight was not great. You always knew that #4 or #6 were defensemen, while #13 was a forward. It wasn't until much more recently that players started wearing numbers above 40, which largely stemmed from players wanting to wear a specific number that was unavailable. Reversing it such as Hossa did earlier in his career, switching from 18 to 81 was a major factor in the surge of high numbers. Choosing a similar number, such as Belfour switching to 20 when he moved to Dallas, has been a very common sight. Occasionally a player would make an unusual switch, such as Wayne Gretzky changing from 9 to 99. Or perhaps the player would simply choose an unrelated number, or one he had used previously in his career.

You have displayed quite a lack of knowledge regarding the 1993 Canadiens. One, Eric Desjardins was a defenseman. Oops. Two, here's some numbers to look at. Montreal's offense was good, and the defense was good. Montreal finished sixth overall. Montreal's top-six scoring forwards (Damphousse, Muller, Bellows, Keane, Paul DiPietro, and Gilbert Dionne) posted 95 points in 114 man-games. Montreal also got solid offense and defense from Desjardins, Mathieu Schneider, Patrice Brisebois, and Kevin Haller. Comparably, the Penguins were playing with Larry Murphy, Ulf Samuelsson, and journeymen Jim Paek and Paul Stanton as their top four. . Murphy and Samuelsson doubled-over was pretty much the defense top-seeded Pittsburgh, who most expected to win, used. It's not the "came out of nowhere riding Roy's hot hand to the Cup" story that people like to tell. Montreal was a legit contender that season. It would be like Detroit winning the Cup in the 96-97 season when they finished 5th overall. Not exactly a team that came out of nowhere.

"Average" save percentage has varied wildly over the years. If I remember correctly, the league leader in 1993 had a .907 mark. Grant Fuhr's career mark is .887, and he only topped .900 twice; in St. Louis in 95-96 and 96-97, with a .903 and .901 respectively. He's considered one of the best goalies of the past 25 years and his "important stats" are crap compared to "all-time" averages. Just like Joe Malone's 44 goals in 20 games has to be taken into context. He led the league by a fair margin, but it's unlikely he would score 180 goals in today's NHL if you adjust for all the differences between the eras, such as the conditioning and training, as well as the playing style, or the fact he played 45-50 minutes of the game in his era. Still an impressive season, but how many goals do today's great goal scorers get in 20 games of playing 50 minutes? Based just on goals per minute, Ovechkin's best year comes out pretty close to Malone's.

So a columnist on a website says Kovalchuk wants the max, and that makes it truth? Nowhere in that article does it actually have anything involving Kovy or his agent. It's just speculation stated as a fact.

In the spirit of this thread, here's my proposed All-Decade Team for the 1990s: First team C: Mario Lemieux W: Jaromir Jagr W: Brett Hull D: Raymond Bourque D: Chris Chelios G: Dominik Hasek Second team C: Steve Yzerman W: Brendan Shanahan W: Pavel Bure D: Nicklas Lidstrom D: Brian Leetch G: Patrick Roy Honorable mention: C: Sergei Fedorov, Peter Forsberg, Joe Sakic W: Teemu Selanne, Paul Kariya, Keith Tkachuk, John LeClair D: Rob Blake, Al MacInnis, Sergei Zubov, Scott Stevens G: Martin Brodeur, Ed Belfour, Chris Osgood

If we're going back as far as Tretiak, we have to also consider Billy Smith on the list. Huge clutch goalie. But Tretiak definitely tops any post-O6 list if he played any reasonable amount within the defined period.

If Nick retires, Kovy might be an option. But that leaves the Wings with #4-#6 defensemen questionable. Ericsson should improve, Kindl/Meech could make up a solid 5-6. If Lilja can return then we have a decent unit. If not, replacing Lilja is probably necessary. Don't forget, it's possible Hudler returns next season. That's another cap consideration when thinking about Kovalchuk. Huds would be locked in at $2.875, meaning Z/Dats/Franzen/Flip/Huds/Cleary/Draper/Leino and Kronner/Raffi/Stu/Ericsson/Kindl, plus Ozzie and Howard, and you have eight forwards, five defensemen, and two goalies locked in at $44.5m. Leaves $12.3m for five forwards and two defensemen. Say Meech or another defenseman for $500k. Then Helm, Abdelkader, and Eaves back for $2.5m total. Perhaps Lilja or a replacement signs for $1m. This leaves $8.3m to sign Kovalchuk and another forward. Holmstrom or Maltby coming back at $500k? Maybe even both? Or maybe Miller? Kovalchuk at ~$7m allows for that. We'll see on Hudler, but I would bet on him coming back next season if Holland expects to have the cap space. If Lids retires and Kovy takes $7, it works. If Nick stays and takes something like $5m, Kovy is probably not an option. Nick for $2m could make it happen, though. Next summer will be interesting to watch. Find out Hudler's decision, Lidstrom's decision, and what happens based on those decisions. If Nick doesn't declare retirement but stays unsigned until other guys are signed, such as forwards being basically sorted out, and the Wings don't pick up a top-pairing type defenseman without trading Raffi or Stu, then look for Lids to take cap leftovers. Would love to see something like: Kovalchuk/Datsyuk/Franzen Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary Eaves/Filppula/Leino Helm/Draper/Abdelkader Maltby or Miller? With Homer in the lineup, it could be: Kovalchuk/Datsyuk/Holmstrom Filppula/Zetterberg/Cleary Franzen/Hudler/Eaves Helm/Draper/Abdelkader Leino/Maltby or Miller? Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Ericsson Kindl/Stuart Meech Osgood Howard

Roy is somewhat overrated as a big-game goalie. He won the Smythe in 93 and people say he carried a weak Montreal team to the Cup. Roy had one of his worst regular seasons that year, and Montreal still finished with over 100 points, among the best teams in the league. He was clutch, but he wasn't the sole reason they won the Cup as many like to say. In Colorado it's debatable whether he deserved it; IMHO he won it out of reputation. Considering all of that, if you consider the modern era to be the last 25 years, it's pretty clear that the top five are Hasek, Brodeur, Roy, Osgood, and Belfour. Hasek vs Brodeur is very close; Roy-Osgood-Belfour is how I would order 3 to 5. Honorable mention goes to Vanbiesbrouck, Barrasso, Vernon, Hextall, and Richter. All clutch goalies who played their best in the postseason, with consistently excellent regular season play.

Well, if we are going by who most deserves a place on the roster, it's Janik.

Well, that's not true. There are AHL teams with worse players.

Well that much is obvious. I mean, Brodeur is terrible offensively; he can't run a PP at all or create his own offensive chances. /sarcasm

Here's a shocker: Osgood has had comparable playoff success in terms of both stats and clutch play as Brodeur and Roy. Fewer games, but similar GAA/sv% and win%. Ozzie has been a lights-out playoff goalie and has been the best clutch goalie in the league in the past two seasons. Luongo is a great goalie, but he hasn't been the clutch guy Ozzie has, so saying the Wings would have more Cups with Luongo is questionable. Hasek for much of that time, remember? Hasek>Luongo in the clutch. Maybe Luongo over Legace or Cujo might have done a bit better... but I doubt Luongo does any better than Hasek/Osgood in this decade. And Legace/Cujo the team didn't play that great, so a Cup win probably doesn't happen those years either. In 2006 and since, the Wings would be MUCH weaker because of Bobby Lou's contract, kind of like the Nucks since he's been there.

Osgood's pads have been the same size as Brodeur's relative to his body for most of their careers. Ozzie's new pads are slightly larger, but still much smaller than the mattresses some guys wear.

Eaves was signed first. Keeping Hudler would have meant no Bertuzzi or Williams, but Eaves would be here. Bertuzzi and Williams were both signed in the middle of August, after the Hudler debacle was settled and Holland had ~$3m to spend on forwards that he didn't expect to have. Eaves would still be on the team, and Bert/Williams would not. Hudler would have been better to have around than Bert and Williams have been. Hudler has been on the full-time roster for three years. Bertuzzi has missed 97 games in the past three seasons. Williams has missed 45. Hudler has missed 7. Average that out to "expected" injury time, and Bert would play 50 games, Williams would play 67, and Hudler would play 80. Based on per-game output last season, that means Hudler scores 22 goals and 55 points to Bert + Williams scoring a combined 32 and 83. So yes, Bert and Williams would add up to 10 goals and 28 points more, but at the expense of 20 minutes per game for other forwards, including Hudler. Figure Hudler gets 5 more, and the rest are divided among guys like Eaves. That's a higher offensive output and better defensive play from forwards. However, Williams has been fairly consistent with his output the past couple years, and Bert has been steadily declining. Hudler has been dramatically improving every season. Hudler alone probably matches or comes close to their output, and Eaves and other depth guys (Leino playing better?) additional offense covers the rest and more. I'm not the only one who thought this, as Holland tried his best to keep Hudler at around $3m and signed the other two after finding out Hudler was gone for this season. Hudler > Bert + Williams. ...I know, I know, shut up with the logic.

Of note: Osgood has always worn pads closer of similar size to Brodeur's.

Hudler and his 57 points last year were ineffective? If anything, that is even more impressive given the other deficiencies you lay on him, such as small and slow, or "easy to knock off the puck" even though Hudler is better than Flip or Franzen at keeping the puck.

Carman is bitter, xenophobic, completely ineffective, and hates logical discussion. Wow, that method of bashing works really well!

Assuming all the same injuries and in-season signings happened, how about this? Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Leino Eaves/Hudler/Abdelkader Miller/Draper/Helm Maltby/Newbury/May In other words, we'd have Hudler in the lineup instead of Bertuzzi, and the rest of the roster would be the same players. Bertuzzi has been completely ineffective this season when not paired with Dats, and even with Dats he has been very hit or miss. Hudler was always capable of creating his own scoring chances, something Bert has done very little of this season.

If Hudler had stayed, it would have meant no Bertuzzi and no Williams. Abdelkader starts the season in Grand Rapids, and Eaves would still have been signed. Miller was picked up because of injuries, so that's not a reasonable comparison. The lines could have looked like this to start the year: Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom Eaves/Filppula/Leino Helm/Draper/Maltby Those lines would work out pretty well. Top three lines have a skilled #1 shooter and a skilled playmaker to play with him, and the top two lines have great net-crashers. Fourth line is three quick, annoying defensive forwards. Furthermore, it would have likely meant Ericsson on the point for the PP, possibly Lebda or Meech instead of Williams.

Who said anything about Hudler and Datsyuk on the same line? That's silly, you're putting two very good playmakers who think pass first and shoot second on the same line. But Hudler and Dats both can shoot, so if one were forced into a role of 'shooter' it would work. In the past I have suggested Hudler to play with Franzen and Cleary. Hudler worked well playing as the shooter with Filppula as well. Bertuzzi is no different than Holmstrom; he can finish if his playmaker sets him up well. Hudler is his own playmaker. As for the Gretzky thing, you're nuts.

17 of Hudler's 23 goals last season were even-strength. You may not recall Hudler "game changer" moments, but they were there. Let's see you bring up some relating to anyone else on the roster from last year's regular season. What's that, you don't remember? Shocking. What Bertuzzi did before Hudler was drafted hardly has bearing on this discussion. Hudler is a better goal scorer than Bert right now, and a hell of a lot better playmaker. Bert's ONLY advantage is size. And for those who brought up salary; If I could trade Bertuzzi+Williams+Lebda for Hudler+Janik, I'd make that deal in a milliscond.

I'll take Hudler over Bertuzzi. A guy who needs Datsyuk to set him up against a guy who makes his own offense ...who is more valuable to a team having trouble scoring?

The Wings' priorities should be as follows: 1) Goal-scoring forward, preferably one comfortable on the wing. 2) Solid stay-at-home defenseman. 3) Strong two-way forward. Pick those three player types in whatever order yields the best players. After that, they should pick the best skater available; unless a top end goalie prospect drops much further than he should (such as a first-round type guy falling to the fifth round) they should avoid goalies given the four skilled young tenders in the system waiting for a chance.

Fixed.