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Osgood already owns about half of all Wings goaltending records. He has career playoff numbers that are comparable to Patrick Roy and Martin Brodeur, two guys universally considered among the best playoff goalies ever. Also of note: Patrick Roy has his number retired with the Colorado Avalanche. In both the regular season and playoffs Roy played a comparable number of games played, and has a worse record, about equal shutouts, and the same number of Cups. Osgood with Detroit has more finals appearances, and was second in Conn Smythe voting in all three appearances. Does Roy deserve to have his number retired in Colorado? And guess what? Osgood with Detroit has better numbers than Roy posted in Montreal in those same categories I listed above. So does Roy deserve it in either location? If you argue yes, you are arguing in favor of Osgood. Interesting, isn't it?

Well, let's look at it this way. Zetterberg plays in the Central Division, so let's take a look at the top two forwards of the other five divisions: Pacific: Ryan Getzlaf, Joe Thornton Northwest: Jarome Iginla, Martin Havlat Atlantic: Evgeni Malkin, Sidney Crosby Northeast: Daniel Alfredsson, Jason Spezza Southeast: Alexander Ovechkin, Ilya Kovalchuk Malkin, Crosby, Ovechkin, are the only players in that list who could be argued as good or better than Zetterberg given overall performance and ability. Iginla, Getzlaf, Kovalchuk and Thornton all could be argued as top-ten or top-fifteen players in the league. Datsyuk is the only forward in the Central Division who could be argued at or above Z's level. So that would place Z, at very worst, as the fifth-best forward in the league. Then you have to consider defensemen. Lidstrom, Chara, Niedermayer are the three names that come to mind for most people. Lidstrom is the only one who would be considered a top-five player by most people, if anyone were to rank a defenseman in that group. Chara and Niedermayer might get looks as top-ten players. And finally, goaltenders. Martin Brodeur and Roberto Luongo are the only ones with a real shot at cracking the top ten and a long shot at the top five. So what we're looking at is Zetterberg among the top five forwards, probably making the top ten players in the league, with a very good shot at placing higher than tenth.

I was surprised that the Leafs' tandem wasn't MacDonald/Gustavsson to start the season, honestly. Between the wicked skills Gustavsson has displayed and the fact MacDonald has consistently outperformed Toskala from the start of last season through me posting this, it seemed like a lock.

It's off topic, but Filppula is a good second line playmaker. Hudler was the second best playmaker on the team last year after Datsyuk. There's a wide disparity there. Hudler also has a considerably better shot and much better anticipation of what's going on. Like I said, overall they are comparable in ability. They each have different strengths, but overall they contribute a similar amount. Much like comparing Niedermayer vs. Chara... two players with noticeably different styles and skill sets who, overall, are very similar in ability and contribution. Now, back to Ericsson vs. Kronwall, please.

I don't get what all the hate going towards Charles Wang is about recently; yes there is a chance that the Isles could end up moving if they don't end up with the new arena Wang wants built. Yes, the city doesn't want a new arena to be built. But the only thing holding it up is the fact that the city is refusing to approve the project that Wang himself will be paying for. Wang is willing to dish out SERIOUS cash to build a state-of-the-art arena to keep the team on the Island. But do they really want him to keep it there? That's the question. And the city's response to his arena project says "maybe not" because Nassau is a dump that has a 50-50 chance of collapsing in upon itself by the end of the Isles' lease.

Brodeur. He should have been about five spots higher than this, but whatever.

I'll remind you, and anyone else who reads this post, that of the defensemen who were considered "potential waiver material" on this board at that time, I ranked them in this order in terms of who we should be keeping: 1. Quincey 2. Lilja 3. Meech 4. Lebda Seems pretty accurate for then and now.

Kiprusoff, based on the past couple of years of regular season and postseason play. He's been absolutely horrendous and there have been at least 35 or 40 guys who have outplayed him.

I'm glad that more people are finally starting to agree with what I've been saying: Meech>Lebda.

FACT: With Osgood having arguably his worst season of his career, and basically the current defense corps, Detroit nearly won it last year. FACT: Osgood is the best postseason goaltender in the league over the past couple of seasons. Giguere has been as inconsistent as Ozzie in the regular season and has not looked nearly as strong in the postseason. In other words, you are so concerned about a slight improvement in regular season record that you would give up an important piece of our defensive lineup to vastly reduce the performance of our goaltending in the postseason. Unless of course you plan to start Giguere in the regular season and Osgood in the postseason?

Fischer was the fastest skater during team competitions at training camp multiple times. As far as his shot, Fischer was clocked around 106-107 on several occasions. And he was more effective offensively than Kronwall every year they played together despite Kronwall getting more PP time and playing a more offensive style. Also, Hudler is a very good player. About as good as Filppula, who most here seem to think is the second coming of Jesus.

Let's trade Franzen and Kronwall for Kiprusoff and Regehr. After that we can trade Osgood for a pick and sign Shanahan to take Franzen's place.

Jedi, you know I don't normally argue rules with mods... But this entire thread should have been deleted the moment it was posted. As was stated by harold, the OP asked himself a question and answered it. What are we supposed to do, argue with him as to whether or not he'll be surprised? You keep saying to keep the discussion on topic. THERE IS NO TOPIC. Please close and/or delete the thread, k?

Neither of them will be as good as Fischer was going to be. Fischer was more talented offensively than Kronwall, and his primary responsibilities were defensive. He was the team's fastest skater and best hitter, as well as possessing a harder and more accurate shot than Ericsson. Kronwall and Ericsson both have potential to be top notch defensemen. Fischer had Norris potential.

Two of those six guys are among the league's top five. One more is in the top ten. And one shouldn't even have a starting job in the NHL with the number of goalies who are better than him.

Yeah, he only carried an inconsistent, underperforming team to a Finals lost this past season. He's clearly lost it and should have retired in the summer.

At least Eriksson is being paid for one good season. Finger was paid for no good seasons.

You are wrong on multiple levels. One, Bettman does not decide which teams to move or not move, nor the locations they move to. He represents the interests of the League, as decided by the Board of Governors, in that respect. Phoenix having a team had nothing to do with Bettman's personal opinons. Two, with regard to the franchises that moved; Winnipeg was owned by a local owner, and ownership that would keep them in Winnipeg was sought first, before failing to raise necessary capital. An ownership group in Minnesota intended to proceed with a bid but also could not fully assemble the necessary pieces to proceed. After that, the team was sold to an ownership group who moved the team to Phoenix a season later. All potential ownership groups followed the league's rules for potential ownership. Quebec is the most similar situation to Phoenix, with one significant difference. The Nordiques' owner tried everything he could to keep the team in place, and the only interested buyer was a group from Denver. The group from Denver followed the league's rules to purchase and relocate the team. Hartford was a significantly different situation. While Winnipeg and Quebec were moved by new owners, Hartford had been purchased by Peter Karmanos and he had kept them in Hartford until the Whalers organization and the city of Hartford could not come to terms regarding a new arena that the city of Hartford had agreed to build but is widely believed to have never actually intended to build. Karmanos then followed the league's rules regarding relocation and moved the team to Raleigh. Are we noticing a pattern here? If Balsillie had just been patient and followed the league's rules he might have himself a team in Hamilton. He had previously been approved as a potential owner during the sale of the Pittsburgh Penguins but lost out to Lemieux. Now because of his immaturity, attitude, and disregard for league procedure, he may never get the opportunity to own an NHL team.

Marleau should have been given one of the A's. He's effectively being scapegoated for the team's playoff failures. Regardless, I say an important thing when I say: You don't need a title to be a leader. This goes for those who blame Marleau for the Sharks' playoff failures.

The idea of picking up a top-tier defenseman via free agency in 2010 is an unrealistic option. Some of the options at D to replace Lidstrom who go UFA in the summer of 2010 are: -The Old Men Scott Niedermayer Sergei Gonchar Rob Blake -The Skilled Youth Paul Martin Rostislav Klesla Dan Hamhuis Jordan Leopold Niedermayer is the only guy on this list who could really make the loss of Lidstrom anything less than devastating in the short-term. Getting Niedermayer in Detroit would be nearly impossible, though. Gonchar and Blake provide experience, offensive ability, and are not defensive liabilities so they would be acceptable signings. But the chance of signing either would be slim as Gonchar is likely to stay in Pittsburgh and Blake has said he plans to retire a Shark. The 'kids' on the list are good young players in their mid-late 20s who have solid upside and improvement ahead of them, and are top-four type guys now. None would be mistaken for a Norris candidate right now, but all could be or are a strong first-pairing defenseman. 2011 is a better year to pick up a top-flight defenseman via UFA. Chara, Markov, Kaberle, Pitkanen are all UFAs. So, however, is Jonathan Ericsson.

Well, seven games left for each team. Four are head-to-head. Assuming Minnesota wins all games on their schedule that the Tigers don't win: If the Tigers only take one against Minnesota, they need to sweep Chicago to guarantee at least a tie for the division at 87-75 (Minnesota winning 3 of 4 and sweeping the Royals) Tigers splitting with the Twins would require one win against Chicago to ensure a tie and two to clinch. Tigers winning three against the Twins clinches. If the Tigers win nothing against the Twins, then Detroit would be down two games with three to go. Not a pretty position.

Seriously? I wouldn't rank Nabokov in the top five goalies and his inclusion in the top ten would be a close competition with a lot of other guys. He definitely doesn't belong anywhere near a discussion of the top 20 NHL players.

For a PK unit to be effective you need the following as the basics. You need forwards who are hard workers and will get in front of a shot when they have to. You need defensemen who are good positionally and can match up physically with opposing forwards. On top of that, you would prefer players who are good skaters and good at clearing the puck down the ice. You want players who make smart plays with and without the puck. And you want players who are good defensive players; who are good at stripping pucks, breaking up passes, and preventing scoring opportunities by forcing players to skate or pass other than where they wanted to. For the Wings, players on the roster who don't fit that overall description: Holmstrom, Bertuzzi, Leino, Williams, Rafalski, Lebda, Meech That leaves the following group, including injured players and spares, if we are to select three forward pairs and two defense pairs for PK: Forwards: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Franzen, Filppula, Cleary, Draper, Eaves, Abdelkader, Helm, Maltby Defensemen: Lidstrom, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, Lilja Helm and Lilja are injured, and Maltby will probably be the spare forward. Abdelkader is probably going to be sent down when Helm returns, if Helm is not sent down instead. This leaves the Wings with a choice between eight forwards for their six PK forwards. Zetterberg and Cleary have had much success in that regard, so that is likely to continue. Draper's only role on this team is as a PK specialist, so he will be there. Filppula's main talent so far is his PK ability, and his other talents are coming in line with that. This leaves a choice between two-time Selke winner Datsyuk, Franzen, Eaves, and Abdelkader. Datsyuk is probably there, Abdelkader is probably not, and there's a decent chance Eaves is in ahead of Franzen. Eaves would be replaced by Helm when Helm returns, assuming Helm stays on the NHL roster. As far as defensemen, with Lilja injured the four defensemen are already chosen. Lilja would most likely replace Ericsson alongside Nicklas Lidstrom on the PK were he healthy. Cleary/Zetterberg, Filppula/Datsyuk, Draper/Eaves (Helm) Lidstrom/Ericsson (Lilja), Kronwall/Stuart

I'm going to pick the best goalie in the league. Martin Brodeur.

A better argument is that Osgood's key playoff stats are similar to those of Martin Brodeur and Patrick Roy. We all have heard the arguments regarding his regular season numbers being at that kind of level... here's a direct comparison of his postseason numbers. Playoff stats: Games played: Martin Brodeur, 176 Patrick Roy, 247 Chris Osgood, 129 Total wins: Martin Brodeur, 98 Patrick Roy, 151 Chris Osgood, 74 Wins/60 mins: Martin Brodeur, .537 Patrick Roy, .596 Chris Osgood, .580 Shutouts/60 mins: Martin Brodeur, .126 Patrick Roy, .091 Chris Osgood, .118 GAA: Martin Brodeur, 1.98 Patrick Roy, 2.30 Chris Osgood, 2.09 Save percentage: Martin Brodeur, .920 Patrick Roy, .919 (note: does not include Roy's first two playoff seasons) Chris Osgood, .916 For those who would downplay Osgood's achievements or his career; Those are some impressive numbers, and the fact that he has ultimately been as good or almost as good as two guys universally considered among the elite all-time goaltenders should make people take another look.