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Shanny was a good player. but he was simply not as good as Andy Bathgate. Sorry, a guy who is competing on par in people's minds with Gordie Howe during Howe's prime? That's a player who is better than Brendan Shanahan. Think what you want...but if you think Shanahan is better than Bathgate was, you're wrong.

How is Shanny not better than Bathgate? Well, let's see. Bathgate was a RW and played 19 seasons from 53 to 71, plus two before that split between the NHL and WHL. He had two first team selections and two second-team selections in that time. Let's take a look at the other right wingers who got All-Star selections in that time-frame: Gordie Howe (10 first, 7 second, 17 total) Maurice Richard (2 first, 3 second, 5 total) Bernie Geoffrion (1 first, 2 second, 3 total) Kenny Wharram (2 first, 2 total) Yvon Cournoyer (2 second, 2 total) Ken Hodge (1 first, 1 total) Claude Provost (1 first, 1 total) Bobby Rousseau (1 second, 1 total) Rod Gilbert (1 second, 1 total) John McKenzie (1 second, 1 total) So looking at the guys who Bathgate played against, nobody during his career except Howe got more first team, and nobody but Howe and Richard more second team selections at RW, and only those two more total selections. An elite group to say the least. Now let's look at Shanahan: He has played from 87-88 to the present, Shanahan has earned two first-team selections and one second-team selection. Without bringing up the numbers, he is beaten soundly by Robitaille. He is also beaten by Ovechkin, Naslund, and Leclair. Kevin Stevens and Keith Tkachuk are comparable as well. I would say Shanahan has played against weaker competition and still come out worse than Bathgate did. That would tend to mean he's not better.

Remember people...skate like you're sitting in a chair and keep that back straight and head up. No hunching over!

I went with Bucyk over Shanahan because he has similar career stats to Shanahan, was a devastating hitter but still managed to win the Lady Byng twice. Bucyk also played in an era with much lower scoring, so Shanahan's numbers could be considered inflated somewhat when comparing the two. Robitaille completely dominated the left wing position for close to a decade. Hard to argue Shanahan (or Bucyk for that matter) ahead of him.

Yep, that definitely replaces Ohlund. Lose one of the better defensive defensemen in the league, sign a guy who might be in the bottom 30% defensively.

You did catch the note that that particular list was my "all-time career list of guys who at some point were Wings" Otherwise guys like Hasek, Bucyk, Robitaille, Gadsby, and Dionne would not be on there.

Roest was a good player, he just got caught behind a team with ridiculously deep forwards and even deeper pockets. Right now he's tearing it up in the Swiss league; he even outscored Joe Thornton in the 04-05 season. Roest had 55 points in 41 games to Thornton's 50 in 40. He has been top-ten in points four of his six seasons since moving to the Swiss league. Roest played two years with Minnesota and, while being a strong defensive forward and one of the league's better faceoff men (above 55% both years with Minnesota) scored almost 30 points his first year there in 76 games and then 21 in 58 games; a 30-point pace both years. I've always found it odd that one of the league's fastest skaters, a solid faceoff man who could also play either wing, and was strong defensively with a decent offensive touch, was not signed by any NHL team going into the 2003-04 season after Roest came back to Detroit for one year.

A line full of guys who will never be anything at the NHL level who played for the Wings recently? Philippe Audet/B.J. Young/Mark Major Patrick Boileau/Anders Myrvold Marc Lamothe Honorable mention to Ryan Barnes and Dmitri Bykov.

Datsyuk has to do a HELL of a lot more before he cracks that one. He was the next forward I would have picked based just on Red Wings careers...but this roster he is nowhere even close. There are at least five or six forwards ahead of Dats that I can come up with offhand. Give him a few years, he probably beats some of them out. He might even make the top 13 and make this team. Same for Z. But as you said...that's a tough list to crack. I mean, what would the lines be? Lindsay/Abel/Howe Dionne/Yzerman/Bathgate Delvecchio/Larionov/Fedorov Robitaille/F.Mahovlich/Hull Bucyk That's sick. Sick sick sick.

Here's my list based on players who suited up with Detroit, based on entire careers in and out of a Detroit jersey. Forwards: G.Howe Yzerman Lindsay Dionne Fedorov Larionov Delvecchio Bathgate Hull Abel Robitaille F.Mahovlich Bucyk Lidstrom Harvey Fetisov Kelly Park Chelios Gadsby Sawchuk Hasek

We just need Superman, Batman, Hawkgirl, Wonder Woman, Green Lantern, and Martian Manhunter and we're all set!

Don't forget Larry Murphy and Paul Coffey.

Based primarily on their Red Wings careers: Forwards: G.Howe Yzerman Lindsay Fedorov Delvecchio Abel Shanahan S.Howe Aurie Redmond Ullman F.Mahovlich Zetterberg Lidstrom Kelly Stewart Goodfellow Pronovost Konstantinov Quackenbush Sawchuk Osgood Note: Ebbie Goodfellow played both center and defense for Detroit from 1929 to 1944, switching from center to defense in the 34-35 season.

That was such a joke. Z was by far the best rookie that season. Yzerman and Fedorov losing despite great rookie years is understandable, given they each lost to the Vezina winner (Tom Barrasso and Ed Belfour, respectively) and Osgood fifth is pretty strong given that his rookie year was the same as Brodeur's. He might have taken home the Calder, and would likely have been a finalist, if Brodeur hadn't been a rookie that season. I don't see Leino as a finalist unless he plays the whole season on the top two lines though; I think the Wings' best candidate is Ericsson and I think he'll be lucky to finish in the top five simply because he'll spend most of his time on the third pairing. Unless, of course, he ends up on the PP.

Philly has a minor advantage in the top-six forwards. They have a better defense at the top end but Jersey is deeper overall on D. But the real question is...which goaltender will Philly look to, Ray Emery or Brian Boucher? One of them will definitely prove to be an top end goaltender, right? Everyone is bashing Huet; I take Huet over either of those guys without even thinking twice. Philly is a decent team. But unless Brodeur misses most of this season too, the Devils will finish ahead of the Flyers. Flyers won't beat the Devils in the regular season standings, and they wouldn't beat them in a series, unless there are major injury factors or the goaltending issue is addressed.

My predictions: Top 8 from each conference (division winners in bold): Wings Penguins Bruins Hawks Sharks Capitals Canucks Devils Flames Blues Ducks Canadiens Flyers Blue Jackets Hurricanes Senators Playoffs: Wings vs Blue Jackets Sharks vs Ducks Canucks vs Blues Hawks vs Flames Penguins vs Senators Bruins vs Hurricanes Capitals vs Flyers Devils vs Canadiens Wings vs Blues Hawks vs Sharks Penguins vs Devils Bruins vs Capitals Wings vs Hawks Capitals vs Devils Wings vs Devils 2010 Stanley Cup Champion: Detroit Red Wings Conn Smythe Trophy Winner: Chris Osgood

I think he shoots more than he should be given that he has been in the "playmaker" role and will continue to be as such if his partner is any of Williams, Stuart, or Ericsson as all three are much better shooters than passers and would have to play the role of shooter, placing Kronwall in the role of PP QB as there is no forward to run the PP the way Hudler did last season so that both point men could serve in the role of shooters instead of one being the PP QB. If the second PP unit is Franzen/Filppula/Bertuzzi/Kronwall/Williams...then Flip is the only other guy who is really a capable passer, and he can't run the PP the way Hudler or Kronner would be able to. Putting Williams, Stuart, or Ericsson on unit 1 and Raffi on unt 2 gives the second unit a top notch playmaker with a good shot who can really run the PP and then Kronner can shoot or pass as necessary without HAVING to be the guy who looks for the better setup instead of always thinking "shoot" and then only passing when there's no chance at a shot, a la Franzen or Samuelsson.

Kopecky was one of the most willing hitters and biggest hitters on the team. He led the team in hits and he laid several significant hits throughout the season. He also had a couple fights and apparently you don't recall that his season was ended when he took a punch to the eye and his orbital bone was smashed. Who are you going to replace him with that is going to hit more or be a more willing fighter? How about replace his useless linemate instead. You know, Maltby. Maybe that would have made a difference. Maybe not. Who knows.

You mean players like Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, Kopecky, or Helm from last year's run who would lay the big hits? Or how about Stuart, Kronwall, Ericsson, Helm, Bertuzzi, and hopefully Lilja on this year's roster? Nope, no Wings players doing any hitting.

What's more important, a fight vs a goal? How about a fight vs preventing a scoring chance? Guess what. Fights are great entertainment and sometimes might even teach the opponent a lesson. But offense and defense are FAR more important talents for a team to have. Fighting is not the same as toughness, and last year's Wings HAD toughness. I'll spear you in the testicles and we'll see how many games of competetive hockey you can get through if you don't agree with my assessment of last year's team.

I didn't say he was the best option, or that he'd be there. I simply said it was possible and that his skill set and playing style (quick skater, decent playmaker, passer first) made him a logical option considering Kronwall tends to shoot first and having two guys who shoot first doesn't work unless you have a forward like Hudler who can quarterback the PP instead of a d-man doing it like Lidstrom and Rafalski both do on the first unit. The second unit doesn't really have a QB right now, as Kronwall is a decent passer but is really more of a shooter, and Williams, Stuart, and Ericsson all fit that profile as well. Putting one of Lids or Raffi on unit two would solve the issue but probably won't happen.

I played for Washtenaw Community College in 2003 (the first year they actually had a team) and 2004 (my last year there) because I was a slacker in high school and didn't get any decent scholarships, and although I was accepted couldn't afford to actually go to a "real" college. I've been looking into trying out for a lower level pro team; I just missed out on getting a spot at the Walleye camp due to how quickly it filled up. The only problem is that a lot of them don't pay enough to actually live on and would be a pay cut from my current job, which isn't exactly a bank CEO or anything.

I played in college and was known primarily as "the insane guy jumping in front of the puck" because I was by FAR the team's best shot blocker, and played both forward and D. Having kids has prevented me from doing much league play, but I still get pickup games now and then, and still have my speed on the ice. Actually, I am probably a faster skater now because I have actually worked on my skating technique instead of just pushing with all the power I could and losing 50% of it.

IMHO, Filppula was the 33rd best center last season and the 68th best forward. So while he was not a first-line center based on his ranking among centers, he was clearly a first-line level forward, along with six other Red Wings (Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Cleary) so depending on how you rank it, he certainly could center a team's first line and not be out of place. For reference, based on these same rankings, the current Wings roster has six top-line level forwards (lost Hossa and Hudler, gained Bertuzzi) so the Wings aren't much worse off.

If Meech is in the lineup, he's not a bad option for the point on the PP. He's fast and a decent playmaker which is really what we need opposite Kronwall on that unit, not a big shooter.