eva unit zero

Probably Larsson. Although a cheap reliable vet might be available also.

To clarify this point: Datsyuk is basically a super-Hudler. Basically the same player with a more physical size and strength, not to mention skating strength. Hossa is ridiculously fast and has a great shot, but he's not at all the playmaker or puckhandler Hudler is.

Signed forwards from last year's roster (in order of cap hit): Datsyuk Zetterberg Franzen Filppula Cleary Holmstrom Draper Maltby So the Wings need a minimum of four forwards. They intend to sign Jiri Hudler and Ville Leino, and judging by the fact that neither RFA has received an offer sheet from any other team they should be able to sign both. They also intend to promote fan favorite Darren Helm, who is already signed. This leaves one spot open; someone on either the 3rd or 4th line. This could be Abdelkader, McGrath, Ritola, a cheap free agent, or possibly someone else either from within the system or via trade; perhaps through trading expendable defenseman Brett Lebda or perhaps by dealing goaltending prospect Jimmy Howard.

I'd trade Hudler plus Stuart if Hudler had to be involved, assuming Stuart would waive the NTC. They'd probably as for Ericsson or Kronwall as part of any deal though. Lidstrom/Raffi Kronner/Johnson Ericsson/Lilja Meech Now that's a nice D corps! Especially with Kindl, Pyett, Kolosov, and more waiting in the wings to move up.

It works out this way: Tallon explores trading Huet and Campbell as the season goes along. Huet trade is based on Crawford's progress. If Crawford is performing very well, then there is no need to try and get a goaltender in return for Huet. However, Huet for Theodore might be a deal Washington would look at...dump Theo's salary for only a minor increase and a goalie they know will play well. Chicago, OTOH, gets a goalie who can play mediocre to well, and whose overinflated contract ends after the season. Or how about this trade? Cristobal Huet and Brian Campbell to NYI for Rick DiPietro. NYI would be basically at the cap floor at that point, with 12 forwards, 7 defensemen, and 2 goalies. Sign one more forward for $1.5m-$2m and that's a decent roster, definite improvement over last year. Chicago would be a couple million short of the cap floor with a few players to sign. Far from cap trouble this year or going forward.

23-man roster: Goaltenders (3) Martin Brodeur (Montreal, Que./New Jersey, NHL) Roberto Luongo (Montreal, Que./Vancouver, NHL) Cam Ward (Sherwood Park, Alta./Carolina, NHL) Defencemen (7) Duncan Keith (Penticton, B.C./Chicago, NHL) Scott Niedermayer (Cranbrook, B.C./Anaheim, NHL) Shea Weber (Sicamous, B.C./Nashville, NHL) Dan Boyle (Ottawa, Ont./San Jose, NHL) Dion Phaneuf (Edmonton, Alta./Calgary, NHL) Jay Bouwmeester (Edmonton, Alta./Calgary, NHL) Mike Green (Calgary, Alta./Washington, NHL) Forwards (13) Sidney Crosby (Cole Harbour, N.S./Pittsburgh, NHL) Michael Richards (Kenora, Ont./Philadelphia, NHL) Ryan Getzlaf (Regina, Sask./Anaheim, NHL) Jarome Iginla (St. Albert, Alta./Calgary, NHL) Eric Staal (Thunder Bay, Ont./Carolina, NHL) Joe Thornton (St. Thomas, Ont./San Jose, NHL) Dany Heatley (Calgary, Alta./Ottawa, NHL) Shane Doan (Halkirk, Alta./Phoenix, NHL) Jeff Carter (London, Ont./Philadelphia, NHL) Jonathan Toews (Winnipeg, Man./Chicago, NHL) Jordan Staal (Thunder Bay, Ont./Pittsburgh, NHL) Dan Cleary (Carboneau, N.L./Detroit, NHL) Milan Lucic (Vancouver, B.C./Boston, NHL) Thornton/Crosby/Iginla Getzlaf/Carter/Richards Heatley/E.Staal/Doan Cleary/J.Staal/Toews Lucic Keith/Boyle Niedermayer/Weber Bouwmeester/Phaneuf Green Brodeur Luongo Ward That fourth line won't have prissy guys like Heatley or Lecavalier on it. Guys like Dan Cleary and Jordan Staal were invited because they want a real fourth line. Also, Duncan Keith and Dan Boyle are pretty much locks; Keith is the best defensemen Canada has to offer and Boyle is among the top five. Regehr has a shot, but a slim one. Pronger also is likely to be passed over because of his age and the fact that he's not the dominating force he was even two years ago, and is on a sharp decline while the others are going up and could use the experience; i.e. pick excellent young players in the assumption that most will be on the team in 2014 as well. The goaltending is pretty much a no-brainer. Fleury doesn't belong, Mason is good but hasn't proven he can play under the kind of pressure he'll be facing. Brodeur is the world's best goalie, especially in the clutch. Luongo is one of the best under pressure, and Cam Ward is one of the best under pressure. All three will get some games during round-robin play, with Brodeur likely seeing the primary duty during the tournament.

Fleury too. In the finals, Osgood outplayed Fleury considerably in pretty much every game and over the course of the series. The difference was that the Wings skaters didn't come through when they needed to and the Pens did.

If you're saying "Watch them play, it's easy to see who's better" I sure as hell hope you aren't claiming Kipper is better. Because Kipper has looked like s*** the past couple of seasons and while Osgood was not great this past regular season and did have some rough patches, he is a notably better goaltender than Kipper, especially when it matters the most.

Hudler only played 13 minutes per game last season because the Wings had Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Holmstrom, Hossa, Franzen, and Cleary who Babcock wanted to use on the top two lines. Hossa is gone. The quality of Holmstrom's play faded as the season went on, and he was horrible in the playoffs. Hudler's offensive ability on the top two lines with more ice time is going to be a NECESSARY thing next season. As was posted in another thread: The downside to having Jiri Hudler is that he makes your third line a consistent scoring threat. Think about this for a second. But since someone was posting prorated numbers, I'll post more important prorated numbers. I'll post the Wings' top nine scoring forwards G-A-P from this past season, prorated to Datsyuk's ice time at ES, PP, and PK separately. So rather than taking players who play a larger percentage of time on PP or PK, we'll get a fair and even look. EVEN STRENGTH: Pavel Datsyuk: 20g-39a-59p Marian Hossa: 34g-19a-53p Tomas Holmstrom: 11g-35a-46p Johan Franzen: 25g-19a-44p Henrik Zetterberg: 17g-25a-42p Dan Cleary: 13g-27a-40p Valtteri Filppula: 12g-27a-39p Jiri Hudler: 22g-16a-38p Mikael Samuelsson: 14g-9a-23p POWER PLAY: Pavel Datsyuk: 11g-25a-36p Jiri Hudler: 7g-24a-31p Henrik Zetterberg: 12g-18a-30p Marian Hossa: 12g-16a-28p Johan Franzen: 15g-11a-26p Mikael Samuelsson: 9g-16a-25p Tomas Holmstrom: 13g-6a-19p Valtteri Filppula: 4g-13a-17p Dan Cleary: 6g-6a-12p SHORTHANDED: Johan Franzen: 2g-0a-2p Henrik Zetterberg: 2g-0a-2p Pavel Datsyuk: 1g-1a-2p Marian Hossa: 0g-2a-2p Tomas Holmstrom: 0g-0a-0p Dan Cleary: 0g-0a-0p Valtteri Filppula: 0g-0a-0p Jiri Hudler: 0g-0a-0p Mikael Samuelsson: 0g-0a-0p OVERALL: Pavel Datsyuk: 32g-65a-97p Marian Hossa: 46g-37a-83p Henrik Zetterberg: 31g-43a-74p Johan Franzen: 42g-30a-72p Jiri Hudler: 29g-40a-69p Tomas Holmstrom: 24g-41a-65p Valtteri Filppula: 16g-40a-56p Dan Cleary: 19g-33a-52p Mikael Samuelsson: 23g-25a-48p At even strength, Hudler is in a group of six players who are separated by 8 points from 3rd to 8th in the group of nine. Hudler likely would have been closer to the top or even clearly exceeded the group had he gotten more ice time with higher quality linemates. This is shown by the fact that Hudler is third in even strength goals. Also, on the power play, Hudler is the most productive forward after Datsyuk. The fact that Hudler's even strength numbers are goal-heavy yet his power-play stats are assist-heavy show that he has to generate his own offense on even strength, while he creates plays for others to finish on the power play and does a very good job of it. Putting Hudler in a real playmaker role, such as with Franzen, would allow him to exercise that talent at even strength and do quite a bit to make up for the loss of Hossa.

Hawks are betting on the two following conditions happening this season: 1) Crawford takes over the starting spot. 2) A trade can be found to dump Campbell (and his cap hit) either during or after this coming season 3) A trade can be found to dump Huet (and his cap hit) either during or after this coming season, assuming Crawford took the starting job OR a capable CHEAPER goaltender comes back in return for either Huet or Campbell (or is found as a FA) That, right there, is the long-term plan.

1. Lebda's offensive-first style is due to his lack of defensive acumen and the fact his speed is pretty much the only skill he has that is not a liability. The Wings have several defensemen who are much more talented offensively. Lilja is the Wings' best shot blocker and one of the Wings' best defensive defensemen. Lilja is also as capable puck mover as Lilja is, despite being only an average skater. 2. Lebda's only skills that aren't horrible are his impressive skating and his average puckhandling. Meech is not only younger and cheaper, but brings the same thing and has been consistently improving while Lebda's level of play and his skill has been fairly stagnant in the Wings' system. Meech is also more versatile. Keeping Meech as a spare is better than keeping Lebda as a spare. 3. If the Wings wanted their #6 defenseman to be an offensively skilled defenseman with good skating skills who needed to improve his defensive game, Lebda would be gone and Kindl would be on the roster.

You do realize that if Marchant takes a 50% pay cut on his new contract, he's STILL overpaid, right? Marchant is comparable to Maltby. Decent defensively, good skater. There are only two differences. Marchant is a very good faceoff man, and while Maltby was never better than an average third-liner, Marchant was once one of the better two-way second line centers in the league (55-65 points and very good defense) but both are, at this point, decent fourth liners. On a good day they could be considered this liners. I wouldn't mind Marchant as a Maltby replacement at Maltby's salary or less if Maltby (or Holmstrom) retired, but not in addition to what we already have as far as aging forwards.

Who would you rather have in a playoff-style environment? Ozzie, Fleury, or Mason? Hmm..based on the past two years: Mason cracked under heavy offensive pressure. Fleury is extremely inconsistent regardless of pressure. Ozzie is perhaps the best clutch goalie in the NHL after Brodeur; last year the Wings are out by the end of the second round if not for Osgood. Ward is the only guy besides Brodeur and Luongo who has a real argument against those two and Ozzie to make the team IMHO. But I guess I am thinking more in terms of "how does the guy play when the pressure is really on" instead of "what kind of stats did the guy post last season" because, I dunno, maybe the former is what's really important in this case. But, as Brodeur is the best Canadian goalie, and the most clutch goalie in the world, it won't matter than much.

Osgood should have been given an invite. If you can name me an NHL goalie who, in the last two years, has consistently played better in tournament play than Chris Osgood, I'll give you a cookie. Given that Osgood was a Conn Smythe contender until the end of the Finals the last two years...and stands a decent chance of being one again this year...I find it ridiculous that he wasn't given an invite. EDIT: Also...Ryan Smyth and Dan Cleary are "youngsters getting a chance" apparently.

Let's look at this objectively. Stats for the last two seasons, regular season and playoffs combined. Regular season OTLs are combined in as losses. Regular season Goalie A: 131 GP, 82W-42L, 11SO, .908sv%, 2.34GAA Goalie B: 165 GP, 88W-73L, 7SO, .904sv%, 2.80GAA Now tell me...which goalie has better stats? Goalie A, right? Fewer games, same amount of wins basically, more shutouts, lower GAA, higher save percentage. Much better winning percentage. He's at least as good as Goalie B, if not better, right? Is Kip really way better than Osgood? Or is that just hype from Kipper being good a few years ago. Ask yourself that question. Because Goalie A is Chris Osgood, and Goalie B is Miikka Kiprusoff.

The lineup I would like to see, given the loss of Kopecky, Hossa, and Conklin: Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary Franzen/Datsyuk/Leino Abdelkader/Filppula/Holmstrom Helm/Draper/Maltby Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Stuart Ericsson/Lilja Meech Osgood Howard

Koko probably plays on Chicago's third line, in a two-way role. I can see him netting 10-15 goals and around 25 points this coming season, maybe a little more. If he gets some time on a higher line, he could post some significant numbers and make a lot of posters on LGW look bad. If he plays Sammy-style time he could put up Sammy style numbers for the same kind of money...plus he's similar defensively and much better physically. Koko also can play all three forward positions, while Sammy can't.

Kozlov has been quite the star scorer in Atlanta. He has been a bigger star and made a bigger name in Atlanta than he ever would have in Detroit. He would have won more Cups had he not been traded, but his fame has increased since leaving the Wings (against his will) and moving to Buffalo and then Atlanta.

The list of teams that might be able to pick up Hossa that could have a reasonable shot at the Cup within the next few years: Vancouver (If they were to keep both Sedins and sign Hossa, that could be dangerous) Anaheim (They still need to fill out their top four on defense as well, which may or may not include Nieds) New Jersey (assuming they can sign Hossa and still fill out their lower lines with decent players) Chicago (need to sign some depth defensemen, backup goalie and RFA forwards. Easily enough space for now) Other teams with a shot at the Cup could make room for him, such as Detroit would have to, but those are the only four with anything resembling a shot in the near future that can do what is necessary cap-space wise without dropping players AND sign Hossa. So look for him to either stay in Detroit or go to one of those teams if he actually does still want a shot at the Cup, unless the team he signs with makes notable moves.

Ok, I admit I am adding Meech's potential for improvement into the equation...something Lebda apparently never possessed as he is the same ******* player now as the first day he played for the Wings. But skating? Meech is definitely as fast as Lebda, perhaps a quarter-step slower. It's very close. It doesn't appear you've actually watched Meech play, though.

Wouldn't it be interesting if Hossa is ignoring other teams' offers and still considering Detroit's, and ends up staying?

You forgot some reasons. "And the fact that he's younger. And the fact that he's a better overall player, without losing any of the speed we loved from Lebda. And the fact that his cap hit is almost $200k lower."

The whole point of a NTC/NMC is that teams can't trade you or assign you wherever they feel like; it gives you a say in the matter. Heatley not waiving it probably means he didn't want to go to Edmonton. Did you not understand that?

Aucoin shouldn't be included in this comparison, as he is an unsigned UFA. Matt Pelech should be used instead as he is the RFA who played the most games last season. This leaves: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Ericsson, Lilja vs Bouwmeester, Phaneuf, Regehr, Sarich, Giordano, Pelech Honestly...as good as the Flames' D corps looks? Detroit still wins by quite a margin. Let's take the top two defensemen from each team. Lids/Rafi vs Bouw/Phaneuf: Lidstrom is significantly better than either Bouwmeester or Phaneuf. Rafalski is basically about even regardless who you match him against in this matchup. Now, the next two: Kronner/Stu vs Regehr/Sarich Kronwall is the best defenseman in this comparison. Stuart is about even overall with Regehr and Sarich is easily the worst of the four. And, finally: Ericsson/Lilja vs Giordano/Pelech Lilja and Giordano are both generally stay-at-home types. Lilja is definitely the better of the two. Ericsson is considerably better than Pelech. If Calgary signs Aucoin, that makes considerable difference in this comparison. But they haven't and there is good chance they won't. Part of this thread talks about how Phaneuf is overrated. Phaneuf is very good, maybe a little overrated, but one thing I think needs to be mentioned: People aren't realizing that Bouwmeester himself is a bit overrated too. Yes, he has played his entire career with Florida. But he played most of it in front of Luongo, and after that Vokoun. An elite goalie can make a defensemen look better defensively simply by making saves that should have been sure goals. Phaneuf doesn't get that privilege because all he has is Kipper, who was an elite goalie for a couple seasons and for some reason people still call him one even though he can't play for s***. Let's see what happens when the season starts.

Hmm... Likely to happen between now (2009 offseason) and then (2011-12 season) are the following: Conklin leaves as UFA. Chelios leaves as UFA. Hossa leaves as UFA. Samuelsson leaves as UFA. Some older players may retire as their contracts expire. The lineup I am posting also accounts for some players who are on the edge of making the lineup being traded for picks or prospects because better, younger, cheaper players took their spots. This also assumes that trades I would prefer be made within the next week aren't made, because they probably won't be. Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Cleary Franzen/Hudler/Kopecky (I like this line because Hudler has shown excellent chemistry with both Franzen and Kopecky) Leino/Filppula/Emmerton Abdelkader/Helm/Ritola McGrath Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Stuart Kindl/Lilja Meech Osgood Larsson