eva unit zero

Thinkin I might try out for the Walleye...

Love. You can't buy love after getting money. You can always get money after you have love. F-14 Tomcat or F-4 Phantom?

I love how people act as if the Wings organization was perfect and did nothing at all that might have made Fedorov look elsewhere. But, I'll impart the story, AGAIN. Fedorov was going through some personal problems during the season when the Wings wanted to negotiate, and asked for some more time. The Wings' management was aggravated by this. Later, the Wings offered a $50m, 5 year deal which they then pulled from the table and replaced with a $40m, 4 year deal. Fedorov asked for the fifth year back and was told no. He said term was more important than salary and that he was willing to add the year without adding value (making it a $40m, 5 year deal). The Wings rejected that and said take it or leave it regarding the 4 year deal. Fedorov instead took a 5 year, $40m deal from Anaheim. That greedy bastard. Taking less money than he was offered by the Wings, just because the Wings wouldn't give him the five years they initially offered him.

Ok... Yes, they both made great strides in the A. But explain to me how saying that "Kopecky did well and did not look out of place when he played on Detroit's second line in a scoring role" has anything to do with his time as a Griffin? Explain to me also how anything I've said about Hudler has to do with his time as a Griffin. And finally...if you could please find someone who will respond to my earlier post about why Kopecky is the only Wing who even loosely fits the definition of a power forward with something other than "Nuh uh!" I would be very grateful.

Regarding a list that ranks Marian Hossa that much higher than Henrik Zetterberg based on what you put forth as how it was compiled? Zetterberg clearly had more of an impact on his team than Hossa this past season. This is undebatable. Furthermore, Spezza had more of an impact on the Senators than Heatley did this past season. Either the system is flawed, or those who are using the system are flawed. This is further proven when Jarome Iginla is ranked ahead of Alexander Ovechkin, and Sidney Crosby is ranked ahead of Evgeni Malkin. Need more examples? Martin St.Louis over Zach Parise. Vincent Lecavalier over Mike Richards and Ryan Getzlaf. Mike Ribeiro and Ales Hemsky over Johan Franzen, Anze Kopitar, Brad Boyes, Mats Sundin, Sergei Fedorov. Either the system is flawed, or the people using it are flawed, because the list is definitely flawed.

Stuart had a few good games in the Anaheim series, and looked like s*** the rest of the playoffs. Overall, from Game 1 vs Columbus to Game 7 vs Pittsburgh, he was the worst defenseman on the team. If they can get Stuart to waive his no-trade clause and get a decent pick and/or decent prospect for him that's excellent. Out of conference is preferred, if it's within conference, obviously out-of-division is preferred (and also probably preferred by Stuart) but as long as he accepts the trade, that's the important thing. Stuart to Phoenix for Summers would be ideal, but the likelihood is questionable. I'll take whatever pick or prospect we can get for him because the cap space is the important thing here.

I fail to see what you find so amusing. Please, explain to the rest of the class.

Let's hear you actually discredit any point through logic I made instead of trying to say "Oh, but those don't count because I said so." Whether you like it or not, Kopecky was the closest thing to a PF the Wings had, and had he not had such injury troubles, perhaps he develops into the solid second line PF everyone here wants? Maybe he still will if given a chance.

Here is list that better represents to top 50 players in the world right now. 1. Nicklas Lidstrom, D 2. Henrik Zetterberg, F 3. Alexander Ovechkin, F 4. Pavel Datsyuk, F 5. Evgeni Malkin, F 6. Martin Brodeur, G 7. Sidney Crosby, F 8. Duncan Keith, D 9. Zdeno Chara, D 10. Nicklas Backstrom. G 11. Zach Parise, F 12. Mike Richards, F 13. Ryan Getzlaf, F 14. Scott Niedermayer, D 15. Roberto Luongo, G 16. Jarome Iginla, F 17. Henrik Lundqvist, G 18. Marian Hossa, F 19. Eric Staal, F 20. Joe Thornton, F 21. Shea Weber, D 22. Tomas Vokoun, G 23. Ilya Kovalchuk, F 24. Jaromir Jagr, F 25. Chris Pronger, D 26. Ryan Miller, G 27. Jason Spezza, F 28. Dany Heatley, F 29. Dan Boyle, D 30. Chris Osgood, G 31. Vincent Lecavalier, F 32. Alexander Semin, F 33. Dion Phaneuf, D 34. Shane Doan, F 35. Andrei Markov, D 36. Jay Bouwmeester, D 37. Jeff Carter, F 38. Tim Thomas, G 39. Brian Rafalski, D 40. Mike Green, D 41. Patrick Marleau, F 42. Dennis Wideman, D 43. Sergei Zubov, D 44. Jonathan Toews, F 45. Mark Streit, D 46. Olli Jokinen, F 47. Marian Gaborik, F 48. Johan Franzen, F 49. Daniel Alfredsson, F 50. Sergei Gonchar, D

Translation: "I can't really say that what you said is incorrect in any way, but I don't like Kopecky."

Kopecky was/is the closest the Wings have to a power forward. When the Wings gave him a shot on the second line with actual skilled linemates, he didn't look out of place and actually performed well offensively. Kopecky has been the Wings' biggest hitting forward in games he was healthy for over the last few seasons, he's shown offensive skill when he has been used in a scoring capability, and while the Beauchemin fight didn't turn out well he has also had a few fights where he destroyed the opposition. Guys like Franzen, Holmstrom, Hossa all have most of the traits of a power forward as you would generally consider one, but Kopecky is the only guy on the roster who fits the bill for every single aspect. That's why a first line of Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Franzen and a second line of Kopecky/Hudler/Hossa would not have been bad; it would have allowed for a better third line (Cleary/Filppula/Holmstrom) and given us a chance to see what Kopes could do in a scoring role. Obviously this would be in a trial situation as far as Kopecky is concerned; if he didn't do well he would move back to the third or fourth line and serve as a grinder, a role he has done well for his salary.

If/when a defenseman is traded, it will be either Lebda or Stuart, and that may or may not depend on what happens with Hossa.

Kipper has had one good playoffs. He hasn't had a good regular season in like three or four years. Osgood has consistently been clutch in the playoffs throughout his career. I will take Ozzie, you can have Kipper. Enjoy.

Given what has been posted in this thread so far, the definition of a power forward is: Big, strong forward who uses this size to forecheck, backcheck, and generally intimidate opponents. The power forward also has decent skills and can capitalize on scoring opportunity if he is playing in a scoring role. Finally, a power forward is willing to fight and to stand up for his team. Given that definition, the Wings had one player this past season who actually fits every aspect of the definition; Tomas Kopecky. The Wings had many forwards who fit most of those aspects, but Kopecky is the only one who fits all of them.

Ok, so we trade him Washington for the rights to Eric Fehr, Sergei Fedorov, and a 2nd rounder... Or, we trade him to Colorado for T.J. Hensick. Or, my favorite, Stuart and maybe a 3rd rounder to Phoenix for Chris Summers

Name me one player or coach who has said Kovalev is a cancer who themselves has not been considered a cancer by more players/coaches than Kovalev. Kovalev has been called a cancer by fans because teams he has been on haven't won big in the postseason, even if his team doesn't have good depth and he plays well, or if his team doesn't even make the postseason. See Olli Jokinen or Roberto Luongo. Kovalev would be a good fit on the Wings because he is quick, a good playmaker, has a hard, accurate shot, and is better than average defensively. He's also the kind of guy who is easy to plug into a system and doesn't need to be the team's big star. He made $4.5m last year, so he'll have to take a pretty significant pay cut, especially considering he is over 35. Something like $2m to $2.5m over two years would be a fair deal for him. I doubt he ends up in Detroit unless he actually wants to if that's the contract that is offered and Kenny goes for it, because it's likely that other teams would be more than happy to offer him like $4m or $5m per year that he made this year ($4.5m, to be specific) for a one or two year deal. I wouldn't mind seeing either these lines at all Franzen/Zetterberg/Hudler (Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Cleary) Cleary/Datsyuk/Kovalev (Franzen/Hudler/Kovalev) Leino/Filppula/Holmstrom Maltby/Draper/Helm Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Stuart Ericsson/Lebda Meech Osgood Howard This roster assumes that Lilja is not playing next season due to his injury. If Lilja is returning, Kovalev would have to take a lower hit, or someone would have to be traded to make room.

9/8/2006 Next up is Tomas Kopecky, who like Hudler has seen his development go up and down since the draft. Last season put him back in the Wings’ future plans and he now has a good chance of making the team out of training camp. Kopecky has a good combination of size, skill and grit that the Wings are seeking. He could spend time anywhere from the second line to being and extra forward this season.

Kopecky was considered a B-level power forward prospect with defensive upside. Due to injury, he ended up becoming more of a defensive grinder with a bit of offensive awareness and skill. It could just be that he needs some time to recover, it could be that his maximum potential is ruined. We won't know for another couple of years. But Kopecky was projected as a physical second line scorer with good defensive play. He was a dominant physical player and scorer in the AHL. I wouldn't be shocked if he ends up producing much more than most posters here ever expected out of him if he ends up leaving and going somewhere he actually gets a chance to play. He may not be a top talent, but he is a two-way talent who brings physical play. A lot of teams would give him a shot on one of their top two lines, just as Franzen was given a shot in Detroit. Kopecky was given a shot in Detroit on the second line and did well when playing there. He didn't look out of place and he performed quite well. Letting him go for nothing is a mistake on Holland's part.

House, because membership fees suck. And just for the record, a true martini is stirred, because shaking melts the ice. Bond=FRESHMAN! Dying by... Poison in your drink, or gigantic stone boulder rolling onto you?

I heard that because he was almost completely plastic, they were going to melt down Michael Jackson and turn him into Legos so little kids could play with him for a change.

Before Kopecky wrecked his knee, he had the potential to be a consistent 20-25 goal, 50-60 point second line two-way winger who played solid defense and had a strong physical game. THAT is what Kopecky's potential was before he had a couple major injuries. If Kopecky never wrecks his knee, he's probably already signed a contract and had scored 15 goals this season. Kopecky was considered just as solid a prospect, overall, as Hudler or Filppula were by scouts. They just didn't end up getting their knee destroyed, so they are performing a little bit better than he.

If Leino and Hudler sign their qualifying offers, that leaves the Wings with about $4.9m in cap space and 11 forwards, 7 defensemen, and 2 goalies signed. So realistically, if Hossa signs for a deal with a $4m cap hit, and Kopecky's deal is reasonable for his role ($750k or less) then the Wings will be able to retain all three under the cap. The one catch is that Brad Stuart has to waive his no trade clause or be waived and sent to the minors/picked up by another team. If we can't get Stuart to waive his NTC, the next option is trading Filppula and his $3m cap hit, as well as Lebda and his $650k cap hit. If Lilja can't play due to his injuries, then trading Lebda is not necessary. Also, if Lilja cannot play due to his injuries, it's possible that trading or waiving Holmstrom instead of Filppula would clear enough space, depending on Kopecky's contract and whether it was closer to $500k or $750k. Cleary would also work, except for that pesky NTC and the fact that he's a much better player than Holmstrom.

Which is why I'm going to take this opportunity to remind you of the following statistics: Jiri Hudler Born 1-4-1984 Drafted in 2002 2003-04 12gp, 1g-2a-3pt, -1 When's the last time you remember the Wings bringing up a player for more than ten games before he was 20? Who was it? How well did they do? Datsyuk and Zetterberg started their careers at 22 and 23, respectively. They were allowed to develop as top line stars in their home leagues, while Hudler came over and instead saw occasional duty before his 20th birthday and was on the big club full-time by 22 because it was impossible to keep him off, but has not had the same kind of chance to develop his skills as Dats and Z did due to the fact the organization kept shuttling him up and down instead of letting him play a full season. Hudler is poised to have a huge breakout season if he were allowed to actually play on the top two lines in an offensive role...but he keeps getting shut down and put on the fourth line if he doesn't score a point for two consecutive games.

Of course, it could all just be Rich Winter trying to get more cash for the both of them (him), even if both want to stay.

Hmm, let's see. Osgood is cheaper. Osgood is better. Why again am I trading Osgood for Kipper? Oh, that's right, I'm not.