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Hossa is more of a two-way player and better defensively than Franzen is; while it's possible his addition to the team messed up the chemistry in that manner, it would not have been due to a defensive deficiency on Hossa's part. Red Wings players who have been notably weaker, IMHO, defensively this season than last have been: Franzen, Draper, Maltby, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lebda. Red Wings players who have been, IMHO, notably stonger defensively this season than last season are Zetterberg, Hudler, Samuelsson, Kopecky, Lilja. Anyone not mentioned has played close to their level from last season, at least defensively. Part of the problem that paragraph highlights? As far as forwards are concerned, it's penalty killers who are really the ones who are having significant drops in performance defensively, while Zetterberg is the only regular PK forward who has significantly improved defensively. The same problem is noted on the defense, where Stuart and Kronwall are performing significantly worse, while only Lilja is performing significantly better among PK defensemen.

That's why "acceptable trade" was in the post you replied to. Because Stuart would have to approve the trade.

I know I will get bashed for this post... But the primary goal is to retain as much of this team as possible. If you want a power forward, look no further than Tomas Kopecky. His performance is comparable to what Franzen was doing at the same age. He has been one of Detroit's best players the past few games and his performance has only been improving. If we have to let Franzen walk, Kopecky should be an adequate replacement for his role. Especially as he is two years younger and therefore moving into the same period developmentally. Kopecky/Datsyuk/Hossa? Beyond letting Franzen go to retain Hudler, Samuelsson, Leino, and Kopecky; the Wings will be looking at one other major move this offseason which I have posted about elsewhere in another thread. They will have to trade either the combination of Filppula and Lebda and their total $3.65m in cap space, or find an acceptable trade for Brad Stuart and his $3.75m cap hit. If either of those moves are made, plus the free agents are resigned at salaries I expect them to return at, the Wings will have a roster with 100k to 200k in cap space. If players can be signed cheaper, then we have more cap space. If all mentioned trades are made, the Wings would have approximately $3.85m in cap space and would have 12 forwards and 6 defensemen, but could potentially retain Franzen and if he signed for less than $3.3m, they could afford a defenseman as well.

Can I join the club here? I'm currently weighing in underweight at about 130, with a BMI of about 19.3 When I played football in high school (eleven years ago; I graduated in 98), I weighed 150 pounds. In college I played hockey and weighed around 140, having trimmed off excess fat but actually having increased my amount of muscle. I haven't weighed over 145 since around 2005. My goal is to get back up to around 150, or basically a 22.0 BMI, and to do it in a more well-toned manner than the excess layer of fat that I have had.

I guess I would put it out this way. I'll just rate a player's skill as a number from 1-10 for the example's sake. Say two teams are tied for the conference lead. One team has two lines of forwards which are 6s and one which is an 8 and two 7s, and then a first line with a 9 and two 8s. Their defense is two 8s, two 7s, and two 6s, and they have a goaltender who is a 9. The other team has a defense with a 9, two 8s, two 7s, and a 6; a first line with a 10, a 9, and a 7, a second line with a 9 and two 8s, a third line with three 7s, and a fourth line with a 7 and two 6s; their goalie is an 8. The best player is obviously the 10. But he's not the most valuable on the two teams; that would probably be the goaltender who is a 9. His team has much weaker talent yet is competing at the same level. As the team's goaltender, he is probably more valuable than the first line forward of the same skill level. I guess the difference between best player and MVP for me is defined when a team really needs a player to win or not. If your team is able to win more than half their games with you out of the lineup, you are not the league's MVP even if you are it's best player. Yes, this does mean that great players on bad teams get a better shot at the Hart by that logic. But if two players are of equal skill, and one is on a great team which has several other players close to his caliber, while the other is far above the skill level of any of his teammates...them wouldn't you say that the player who is on the bad team IS the more valuable player? The only situation where I would give an MVP award to one player over another when the second player's teammates were obviously worse and the skill levels of the players weren't drastically different is if one team doesn't make the playoffs; i.e. the player who would be winning the MVP award hasn't done anything for the team worth being named MVP for.

The speculation about the Islanders moving is like the speculation about the Lightning moving to the Palace of Auburn Hills when Davidson first bought them. It's speculation about a team that has not had success recently moving because their owner might have contacts that could provide a better arena deal or something like that. RMWG brings up an interesting point I have brought up at times in the past, which is the non-geographical division of teams. The NHL in fact has done this in the past. To determine the conferences and divisions, you would have to follow this process: Combine Northwest and Southwest divisions to determine which teams go into "West" divisions. This gives you the listing of: Anaheim Calgary Colorado Dallas Edmonton Los Angeles Minnesota Phoenix San Jose Vancouver Following that, we would look to the Eastern Conference and take the five westernmost teams and place them in the "Central" bracket with the Central division. This would give us a list of: Atlanta Buffalo Chicago Columbus Detroit Nashville Pittsburgh St. Louis Tampa Bay Toronto Leaving the final list of ten for the "Eastern" divisions: Boston Carolina Florida Montreal New Jersey NY Islanders NY Rangers Ottawa Philadelphia Washington So this would result in divisions looking something like this, if teams were divided to account for hopefully equal travel, and we attempted to preserve established rivalries, conferences might end up like so: CAMPBELL CONFERENCE -West Colorado Dallas Edmonton Los Angeles San Jose -Central Chicago Detroit St. Louis Tampa Bay Toronto -East Carolina Florida NY Islanders Ottawa Washington WALES CONFERENCE -West Anaheim Calgary Minnesota Phoenix Vancouver -Central Atlanta Buffalo Columbus Nashville Pittsburgh -East Boston Montreal New Jersey NY Rangers Philadelphia Each conference has three Original Six teams, the only potential drawback you might be able to cite on that topic is that the Original Six is only represented in two divisions. However, I personally believe that seeing Original Six teams play is generally something desired more by fans of those teams, so rather than being a drawback, O6 teams confined to two divisions is an advantage as it leads to more games against O6 rivals.

Well, the only solution then is to devise a new 3-point game. Perhaps like so: W(Regulation/OT Wins): 3 points SOW(Shootout Wins): 2 points SOL(Shootout Losses): 1 point L(Regulation/OT Losses): 0 points Work for everyone? All games are worth 3 points, and only shootouts are worth different values for wins and losses. Perhaps also introduce a ten-minute overtime?

Franzen probably gets at least $3.5m per year when he signs. The problem is that the Wings absolutely cannot afford to sign both Franzen and Hossa, and Hossa is the better player. So unless Hossa walks or signs a ridiculous deal, Franzen is not a Red Wing next year without significant roster reshaping.

My forward lineups would consist, for the first three lines, of three roles. Playmaker, Finisher, and Screen/Cleanup. I have them arranged by position. Playmakers are Datsyuk/Hudler/Filppula, Finishers are Zetterberg/Hossa/Samuelsson, and Screen/Cleanup are Holmstrom/Franzen/Cleary. The fourth line would be a shut down line whose primary job was to gain control of the puck and to play a physical game when called upon. Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom Franzen/Hudler/Hossa Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson Helm/Draper/Kopecky OR Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Hossa Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson Helm/Draper/Kopecky If a Playmaker or Finisher from a scoring line or Kopecky was injured, Leino would be the forward called upon and put into the lineup. For example, if Zetterberg were injured, Leino could take a wing spot as Finisher on the second line with Hudler or Franzen moving to center. If Filppula were injured, Leino could simply serve as the Playmaker on the third line, with either Leino or Cleary taking the center spot. If a Screen/Cleanup from a scoring line or a checking line forward other than Kopecky was injured, Maltby would be called upon and put in Kopecky's spot, and Kopecky would be promoted to either the second or third scoring line. For example, if Holmstrom were injured, Cleary or Franzen could be moved up to play with Datsyuk, and Kopecky replaces their previous Screen/Cleanup spot, with Maltby taking the fourth line spot. As far as forwards after Leino and Maltby, I don't feel it needs to be addressed specifically. The top-six defense would be: Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Stuart Ericsson/Lilja Chelios Lebda Meech I would rank Meech above Lebda, but for Lebda's experience. Goaltending Osgood/Conklin

You do realize the Hart trophy is not a "Best Player" award but a "Most Valuable Player" award and therefore being a very good player who plays with very bad teammates pretty much makes you the kind of player who SHOULD be winning that award. The league's best player is not necessarily the league's most valuable player. The Hart trophy should be awarded to a player who is among the league's elite players and who was most important to his team's success, but whose team would probably not have made the playoffs without him. This automatically rules out players on non-playoff teams; as the player did not exactly do much for his team's success if they missed the postseason. So you consider who the most valuable player on each playoff team was. Sometimes, you'll have a clear winner, such as Steve Mason or Alexander Ovechkin. Other times, you'll get situations where multiple players could be challenging for MVP, such as Datsyuk vs Zetterberg vs Lidstrom or Malkin vs Crosby. Those situations would increase team success due to multiple high level players, but that would also reduce the chances of those players winning the Hart. For example: If two teams finished with the same record, but one team had three All-Stars and one had only one All-Star, I'll tell you who the best bet of the two teams for the Hart should be. The only "Best Player" award given out officially by the NHL is voted on by members of the NHLPA. It is the Lester B. Pearson Award and is given in most years to the same player as the Hart Trophy, with rare exception. This is due to the Hart trophy being voted on as a "Best Player" award rather than the "MVP" award it is supposed to be.

But offhand, I don't think the stat of last goaltender to win the Cup with a regular season save percentage below .900 was as long ago as the last Cup winning goalie with a GAA over 3.00 during the regular season. Roy's worst season was 3.20 and .894 in 1992-93, btw. I think that there was probably someone more recent who started for the Cup winning team and didn't clear .900 in the regular season. So despite Ozzie's save % being more atrocious, it's actually probably less scary in terms of this thread and the idea of a goalie's stats being under or over a certain number locking you out of contention.

Those of you who are acting like increasing the penalties for fighting would cause people to stop watching hockey altogether are misinformed. Yes, fighting is entertaining and many people do enjoy a good scrap...but quite a few games are played without a fight occurring, the games are even begun without the expectation of a fight, yet there are plenty of fans in attendance and the TV ratings are far from poor. A 10 minute misconduct for each player for fights begun off the faceoff would be reasonable. As far as how you would call the additional instigator penalties Burke asked for, who knows because as was mentioned earlier how do you have a fight occurring in retaliation for a penalized dirty hit without it being "staged", such as waiting for the player to come out of the penalty box or matching up on a faceoff later in the game.

Assuming Hossa signs for about $6m per year, then I would be expecting cap hits for next season of about this for players who are coming back: Hudler $1.8m Samuelsson $1.35m Leino $1m Kopecky $575k Beyond that, Johan Franzen does not return due to his salary expectations being beyond what the Wings can afford to pay him, as well as one of the following two outcomes: Brad Stuart and his $3.75m cap hit is traded away These could be the potential lines: ----------------------------- Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom Leino/Hudler/Hossa Cleary/Filppula/Samuelsson Helm/Draper/Kopecky Maltby Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Lilja Ericsson/Meech Lebda Osgood Howard OR Valtteri Filppula and his $3m cap hit, as well as Brett Lebda and his $650k cap hit are traded away. These could be the potential lines: ----------------------------- Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom Leino/Hudler/Hossa Cleary/Kopecky/Samuelsson Helm/Draper/Maltby Meech Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Stuart Ericsson/Lilja Meech Osgood Howard The first option brings better stronger forwards, but weaker defense. The second option brings weaker forwards, but stronger defense. I would rather take the first option as keeping Filppula would be better than keeping Stuart.

Man, what the f*** kind of s***ty goalie allows that goal through the five hole? Pull that piece of crap already. /sarcasm

1) Turnovers. Absolutely, working on turnovers is the top priority. Especially things such as common turnovers like the defenseman passing up the middle of the zone; this is probably the biggest single reason for Detroit's poor defensive performance this season and for the poor results on the penalty kill. 2) Odd-man rushes. These usually result from turnovers, so cutting down on those should make a big hit already. But if the turnover occurred with more players back, the chances of a goal are reduced; in other words the Wings are perhaps a little too eager to head up ice and should wait just a moment to ensure that the odd-man rush does not occur as the puck begins to be passed up ice. 3) Goaltending. Both goaltenders have been playing below what they are normally capable of; part of this is the fact that they have been seeing a high percentage of quality chances coming at them. Perhaps alternating starts and having both goaltenders spend extra time working with Jim Bedard will straighten things out. 4) Faceoffs. More often than not recently, the Wings have lost more than half of the faceoffs during a game. This is despite the fact that the Wings are, statistically, the top faceoff team in the NHL and have eight forwards who have played at least 15 games and taken at least 15 faceoffs who have won more than 50% of the faceoffs they have taken. I can't say if the Wings have been lazy or what but the Wings need to improve their performance on faceoffs; a puck possession team can't succeed without winning better than 50% of the draws. 5) Lineup. The Wings are a team that works on a system, so setting players into a role on a line based on that system and their skills is the best course of action. The basic roles being used are "Playmaker", "Finisher", and "Screen/Cleanup" so here's some potential lines, arranged as Playmaker-Finisher-Screen/Cleanup Datsyuk/Samuelsson/Holmstrom Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen Filppula/Cleary/Kopecky Meech/Draper/Maltby Once the full regular lineup is available, the lineup will look even better, but using the (Playmaker-Finisher-Screen/Cleanup) template to arrange lines helps a great deal because it helps prevent lines from being made too one-dimensional; it generally wouldn't place a playmaker alongside another playmaker unless one of them can serve another role.

If the Wings are going to be able to retain Marian Hossa and also keep some of their other free agents, they will have to make at least one cap space clearing trade. The two players who are the most likely to be centerpieces for trades during the offseason are: C Valtteri Filppula D Brad Stuart Filppula is tradeable because he does not have a NTC and is viewed as a young player who is not living up to his contract. Stuart has an NTC, but past that his performance this season has been atrocious. Franzen is probably not retainable because the Wings simply can't afford to keep him after signing Hossa. Same story for Conklin, who will sign with a club looking for goaltending, and paying for it.

You have to have defense and these blowouts are happening from lazy defense; no goaltender in the history of the game has been immune to blowouts from lazy defense.

The Wings will have to trade cap space, such as Filppula, Holmstrom, or Kronwall, if they play to retain any significant number of the free agents they have in the offseason.

Yeah, and how many of those shots were of the variety where the goaltender didn't have a chance, where the puck was deflected right before it got to the net or a defenseman passed the puck right to the opposing player or something like that? About four or five tonight would be the answer. Sorry, but you can't just take the numbers and say "this guy stopped this many shots and faced this many" because it just doesn't work that way. You have to consider the quality of the scoring opportunities as well. If you are going based just on numbers, then Conklin's 10 minutes against Nashville were worse than what Osgood played, Conklin faced 9 shots and gave up 4 goals in those ten minutes against Nashville. If you're going to say that one of the Griffins goalies could outdo Osgood's Columbus game, I'll respond by posting that the Wings would have been better off starting me in net for that Nashville game. Hey, I do have a quick glove hand from playing shortstop in high school...

No, what's funny is idiots like him think losing the NASHVILLE game was Ozzie's fault.

You shouldn't even be allowed to post in a thread that deals with giving respect to a team member for his accomplishments.

There should not be any bashing of Osgood either. You know why? Because there was no bashing of Conklin after he got us into that Nashville situation. That just proves that Osgood bashing is done has nothing to do with reason or logic.

Hmmm... Detroit has played two and a half minutes since pulling Osgood and Conklin has seen one shot, and they score a goal and have spent most of the time in the offensive zone. Glad to see the team felt the need to start actually playing once the goalie was pulled.

So when is a Columbus player going to hand the Wings a goal or two or three?

The comment I made on Draper had more to do with his 20 goal season playing on Fedorov's wing.