eva unit zero

I doubt it...but given the two players, I think they would make a wonderful defense pairing. Vishnevski's stay at home game, strong skating ability and puck skills for a defenseman of his type, and excellent physical game would make him a good complement for a speedy, offensively oriented type like Visnovsky. Might be a nightmare for announcers though.

Well, the Wings have 9 NHL defensemen including Chelios and Quincey, who Holland intends to sign. Currently, the Wings only have $400k in cap space. So if Chelios and Quincey sign league-minimum contracts ($475k), the Wings are over the cap by $550k and over the roster limit by one player. They plan on trading or waiving a defenseman as they intend to carry 8 defensemen. If Chelios and Quincey signed such deals, they would fall with Meech into the 'doesn't make enough' group; they need to get rid of one roster player and at least $550k in cap space. Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart, Lebda, and Lilja all would qualify. It's likely that Chelios and Quincey will be slightly above the league minimum, and Holland probably doesn't want to sit right up against the cap. So Lebda's $650k is probably also in the 'doesn't make enough' group. Lilja is not only the best fit on paper as far as this discussion...he's really the only fit. If your argument is that we can't trade Lilja because he just signed, well then Stuart is also exempt. So which of Lidstrom, Rafalski, or Kronwall would you like to trade for no roster player coming back? Because that's what you've got left if you can't trade or waive Lilja or Stuart based on their signing this summer. Lilja goes. He's the only defenseman we can afford to lose without getting an equal player back in the deal who makes enough that his departure clears cap space to fill out the roster.

Lilja makes the most sense...the sign and trade thing is the question there. The thing is; that puts the decision as far as 'who must go' down to Lebda/Chelios/Quincey, with Quincey and Chelios still needing contracts. The ONLY solution at that point is Lebda goes, and Chelios and Quincey sign for an average cap hit of less than $525k. There is no other way without giving up multiple roster players to make the 23-man roster and the salary cap. So which is it, Lilja or Lebda? They're the only realistic options for a single player move to complete the roster.

The thing is, Lilja cannot be considered a significant upgrade - if he's an upgrade at all - over any of the guys he's competing against. Here's the guys it won't be: Lidstrom, Rafalski, Kronwall, Stuart. They're top four and staying that way. Meech He doesn't make enough; the Wings have just barely over $400k in cap space and need to have, at absolute MINIMUM, $950k to sign two players to contracts. They currently have Quincey and Chelios as defensemen without deals, and 22 players signed. So the simplest solution is to move one defenseman who makes no less than $550k, which isn't Meech as he makes $483k. So the Wings have the option to get rid of: Lilja, Lebda, Chelios, or Quincey. Lebda is better, younger, and cheaper than Lilja. Babcock seems to prefer Lebda to Lilja when he has to choose one. Chelios may not be as effective a skater as Lilja anymore, but he will cost half as much and contribute just as much on the ice, not even factoring in his experience advantage. Quincey is a similar stay-at-home type with a physical edge, but should be significantly cheaper, is much younger, and provides much better potential. Lilja provides no significant advantage over any of these three that is not balanced by an equal or greater disadvantage. Lilja is also by far the most expensive of the group. I expect a situation where there is no trade before camp, and Lilja is given every opportunity to prove he belongs on the team. But ultimately, they will decide he is the one that should go, and will ask him what his preferences are as far as a trade. They will attempt to trade him, and failing that will waive him. But suggesting trading just Meech is pointless, as we have to clear some cap space, not just drop a player.

I always liked Vish...solid defensively, good hitter, good skater, decent puck skills. Vishnevski was 7th in total ice time among Devils defensemen last season even though he was 4th in games played, but he was still the hit leader among their defenders and third in blocked shots. It seems that the team for whatever reason just stopped using him; he played 58 of the Devils' first 59 games but only 11 of the final 23 and was only on the ice for three games in the playoffs. I can't say I saw many Devils games, but his statistics seem to be pretty consistent across the board for last season, so it's not like he started the season great then saw a poor stretch of play and lost his job...he was actually performing better when he lost his spot than he was at the start of the year. His ice time dropped significantly as the season went on as well. So it would seem that he simply fell out of favor in New Jersey over the course of the season and went from a guy playing 18-19 minutes per game and playing every game to a guy playing 12-13 minutes per game and playing every other game. That's basically a drop from being the #4 defenseman to being the #7. No wonder they decided to waive him.

Meech is almost as fast as Lebda, and outplayed him when our top four defensemen were out to the point that Meech was our best healthy defenseman in that time period, not Lilja or Lebda. Lebda has outperformed Lilja and is younger and cheaper; Lilja's physical advantage is far less of a deciding factor given the return of Stuart. Lilja, Meech, Chelios, Lebda, and Quincey will all be competing for third pairing spots. The Wings have to lose one of them, but two of them do not have contracts and the Wings do not have enough cap space to sign anyone else to a contract. Lilja in a #6/#7 role isn't worth his salary, and that's the role he will play if he is on the roster this season. Holland trades Lilja, and uses his salary to keep the rest. McCarty may be invited to camp, and given the opportunity to play his way onto the roster.

I went over this in one of the roster threads... There are 25 players who either currently have a contract with the Wings, or are FAs who finished last season with the Wings and intend to play, who cannot play in the minors without clearing waivers. This means two players must be traded or waived. Through logic I deduced that based on age, experience, potential, salary, and ability that the most likely players to be cut from the roster would be Lilja and McCarty; McCarty as he provides the least of any available forward and did not have a contract, and Lilja because he was not a reasonable upgrade over Quincey/Lebda/Meech but his contract was significantly larger, he was much older, and he did not present the potential they did to improve they did. Unlike Chris Chelios, he also did not present the veteran leadership and experience. As the Wings are fairly close to the cap with one roster spot left to fill, dropping Lilja's salary allows them to complete the roster without losing any key players; likely without even losing one of their six best defensemen on the roster.

No, he didn't go out there thinking "I'm gonna break that mother f*****'s neck." because that would have required him to have been thinking at all. Moore did not cheap shot Naslund. The hit on Naslund was clean. Just because Naslund was injured due to contact does not mean the hit was dirty. Anyone who thinks that Hit+Injury=Dirty should go watch soccer because hockey is not the sport for you if that's your thought process. Moore didn't fight Bertuzzi because he was trying to win a hockey game, and his team had the puck and was moving up ice with a scoring chance. He was trying to join the play when Bertuzzi jumped on his back. Moore had already fought Matt Cooke earlier in the night and everyone had moved on except Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi was the only player on either side who felt Moore hadn't paid his price for hitting Naslund. That's what you don't get. It's not like Cooke ran and hid when he was challenged; he had already fought a Canuck player toe-to-toe, face-to-face. The two teams had moved on. Bertuzzi is the one who is at fault, not Moore. The NHL is not responsible for the conduct of Bertuzzi towards Moore. The Canucks could be held responsible, however if it is true and can be shown on video that Bertuzzi ignored Crawford's instruction for a shift change (such as things like other players on his line leaving the ice and Crawford yelling at him to change, but him not changing) then it is possible the Canucks could be relieved of that liability and Bertuzzi held solely responsible as it would be Bertuzzi ignoring the instructions of his coach with intent to injure Moore. Presumably, had he gotten off the ice when instructed, the incident never occurs, so it's a pretty major issue as far as liability is concerned. If there is no clear evidence that the Canucks did not intend for Bertuzzi to be on the ice with Moore, then the Canucks can be held legally responsible for his actions just as a pizza company can be held responsible if their driver is speeding, and hits and kills someone while making deliveries.

Sammy's worthless unless he's in the top 12!

Nabokov just had, for fantasy hockey purposes, what was probably by far the best season of his career. This is due to the fact he started 77 games, and his team was much better defensively than it has been, and therefore hewon 46. Statistically, Nabokov played worse than his career average. The Sharks got worse during the offseason, so it's questionable whether Nabokov will be able to repeat his overall performance from last year in key stats for FH. And Brian Boucher is now in town as a backup, so Nabokov should see closer to 55-65 games than the 77 he saw this season. You're better off going with Brodeur in your top ten than Nabokov; he typically puts up better Sv%/GAA numbers and he always plays that many games so he'll usually get you 35+ wins--you have to go back to 1995-96 for the last time Brodeur didn't win 35 or more games in a single season. As far as Dats vs Z...based on the past couple seasons, Z will have better numbers per game, but fewer games. Overall, it's probably pretty close, but I would take Z. If they get split and one of them plays with Hossa, however...that could mess it all up though. Dats playing with Franzen and Hossa would probably put up better numbers than Z playing with Sammy and Homer.

Ok, I've figured out the solution to the logjam. Split the Wings into two teams. That makes it fair for the rest of the league and solves the logjam the Wings have. Detroit Red Wings Team A: Hudler/Zetterberg/Holmstrom Emmerton/Filppula/Samuelsson Abdelkader/McGrath/Kopecky Ritola/Oulahen/Downey Gelech Lidstrom/Ericsson Kindl/Stuart Lilja/Chelios Conklin Howard Detroit Red Wings Team B: Franzen/Datsyuk/Hossa Cleary/Helm/Mursak Maltby/Draper/McCarty Axelsson/Leino/Ryno Haydar Tardif Meech/Rafalski Kronwall/Quincey Lebda/Pyett Osgood Larsson Certainly not Cup-winning rosters...but both rosters are respectable and could potentially put up a .500 record.

Just because the forum is dead, and nobody has discussed this topic in a while, I thought I would give it a bump. The Wings' current list of signed players and RFAs who must clear waivers and/or have one-way contracts are: Forwards (13) Marian Hossa, $7,450,000 Pavel Datsyuk, $6,700,000 Valtteri Filppula, $3,000,000 Daniel Cleary, $2,800,000 Henrik Zetterberg, $2,650,000 Tomas Holmstrom, $2,250,000 Kris Draper, $1,583,333 Mikael Samuelsson, $1,200,000 Jiri Hudler, $1,015,000 Johan Franzen, $941,667 Kirk Maltby, $883,333 Aaron Downey, $575,000 Tomas Kopecky, $500,000 Defensemen (8) Nicklas Lidstrom, $7,450,000 Brian Rafalski, $6,000,000 Brad Stuart, $3,750,000 Niklas Kronwall, $3,000,000 Andreas Lilja, $1,250,000 Brett Lebda, $650,000 Derek Meech, $483,333 Kyle Quincey, RFA Goaltenders (2) Chris Osgood, $1,416,667 Ty Conklin, $750,000 Total cap hit: $56,298,333 Remaining cap space: $401,667 The Wings are attempting to retain Chelios and possibly McCarty. Quincey still needs a contract also. This means that if everyone gets signed, the Wings will be starting with at least 25 players trying to earn a spot on the NHL roster who do not have waiver options. Likely cap hits for the remaining players are: Kyle Quincey 500k Chris Chelios 600k Darren McCarty 575k This pushes the Wings to 25 total players and a total salary cap hit of $57,973,333, which would put them two players over the roster limit and $1,273,333 over the salary cap, with 14 forwards, 9 defensemen, and 2 goaltenders competing for roster spots. So removing two skaters, at least one of which is a defenseman, is the course of action which must be taken. We will assume that the players who will be leaving are those who lose out in the competition for roster position, so it will two of the following players: Aaron Downey, Darren McCarty, Andreas Lilja, Brett Lebda, Derek Meech, Chris Chelios, Kyle Quincey When Lilja and Lebda were the only regulars healthy...Meech, Quincey, and Ericsson outperformed Lilja and Lebda. Meech and Quincey are also younger, cheaper and more versatile players with better long-term potential. So the chances that either Meech or Quincey is cut loose in favor of Lilja or Lebda are slim. So we'll remove those two from the list right now. Downey, McCarty, Lilja, Lebda, Chelios We'll split these into two groups based on position, and we'll start with the defensemen. Lilja, Lebda, Chelios Chelios, assuming he signs for close to the 600k I have listed him at, is the cheapest option. Admittedly, he is not the player he once was, but he also makes the fewest mental errors of the three and is the best positionally. As the Wings will be bringing more young defensemen with good potential onto the team, having Chelios around is a good thing for their development if he is willing to take a lesser role for the good of the team. If not, just don't sign him. Lilja and Lebda are decent third-pair defensemen, but unfortunately that is all they likely ever will be. They have proven to be out of place when used in a top-four role, and were outplayed by rookies during that time. Lebda is younger and cheaper, so he should stay ahead of Lilja. So we've selected Lilja as the likely 'first to go' which I'm sure was not at all unexpected given his comparatively large salary when put next to the others and the fact that he will be outplayed by most of the defensemen in this group at camp; or at very least most posters at LGW expect him to be. That leaves one final choice; who is the 'other' player to go? Downey, McCarty, Lebda, Chelios Of Downey or McCarty, both are defensive liabilities; however, McCarty is slower and does not provide the physical intimidation on the level Downey does. That gives Downey the edge and would make Mac the expendable forward. Of Chelios or Lebda, I would say Lebda is the expendable defenseman as he would bring more in a trade and provides less to the Wings in the roles they would be used in. The Wings have several young defensemen who can provide what Lebda provides but have only one other multiple Norris-trophy winning defenseman, so having another around to provide some extra leadership for the kids, especially in a depth role to teach kids that it's NOT about being 'the guy' and it IS about 'team' is what is really important. But it doesn't really matter, because McCarty is more expendable than Lebda anyway so he should be the second guy to go. If they need another forward in a pinch, they can call up Helm or play Meech up front. By trading or waiving Lilja, and sending McCarty down (or not resigning him at all) the Wings actually would have a full 23-man roster with almost 200k more cap space than they have now, based on the hypothetical and actual contract amounts I listed. Suggested lines for this roster would be: Datsyuk/Zetterberg/Holmstrom Cleary/Hudler/Hossa (or Hudler/Filppula/Hossa) Franzen/Filppula/Samuelsson (or Cleary/Franzen/Samuelsson) Maltby/Draper/Kopecky Downey Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Stuart Lebda-Meech/Chelios-Quincey Osgood Howard

Tony Granato. The only man who spent most of his prime as a first line player in the NHL who is less deserving of making the HHOF than his sister.

Coach's sister...

If NHL 08 says a two-way contract means you can send to the minors without waivers... Then yes, I am telling you it's not like NHL 08. Contract type means nothing except how much you make when you are in the minors. The contract type only affects the pocketbook of the player and the owner; it affects nothing else. Not cap hit, not waiver status, nothing but actual wages paid to the player when he is in the minors compared to when he is in the NHL.

What about Patrick Sharp's?

Some points of clarification: -Players count on the cap when they are on the roster, regardless of whether they are in the lineup. If both McCarty and Downey are on the roster, both players count against the cap even if they are both in the press box. -A 2-way contract has nothing to do with the ability to send a player to the minors. It only has to do with how much a player makes if he gets sent there; for example, Jimmy Howard signed a deal that is two-way for this year only, but if his deal had not included the two-way portion it would not have changed his waiver status. -The NHL's minimum salary this season is $475,000 and goes up to $500,000 for the next two seasons if the CBA is not reopened. -One or more of Lebda, Lilja, Quincey, Chelios, or McCarty will not be with the club to start the season. With the Downey signing, the Wings have 22 roster players and just under $400k in cap space left. That's not enough to sign one more players to fill out the roster, and Lilja and Lebda are the only 'expendable' players who clear up cap space and roster space without leaving a significant hole in the lineup that wouldn't be more costly to fill than the player leaving. None of those five can be sent down without waivers.

1998 sounds about right for the first time I remember seeing faceoff percentage stats popping up in things like THN.

You can scratch the 'one of' from your line...When she retired, she was considered the Gretzky of women's hockey. It's just odd for a player with a decent chance at getting into the HHOF to be the least likely player to get into the HHOF in his class for his national HOF.

You know the funny part? Mike Richter is the player of that group most likely to be left out of the Hockey Hall of Fame.

Faceoff percentages certainly haven't been widely available for more than a few years. Late 90s is the first time I remember being able to actually access lists of players' percentages of faceoffs won.

If it is Bouwmeester...then expect to see McCabe, Antropov, at least one of Stajan/Steen, as well as one or more of Tlusty/Stralman/Pogge. If it is involving both McCabe and J-Bo, then the Leafs would have to give Florida damn near fair value for J-Bo ASIDE from McCabe simply due to McCabe's paid as a Norris contender and the fact that he's a #4 on most NHL teams. If the Panthers are going to trade a defenseman and bring in McCabe...Van Ryn is the one that makes sense. Bouwmeester has way more value than that, Allen recently signed a fairly long deal, Boynton and Ballard were just acquired. Skrastins is the only other defenseman in the top six who fits the profile where he clears cap space and roster space for McCabe. The biggest thing is...McCabe to Florida just doesn't make sense. They already are spending too much on their blueline (six guys at 2m+ right now), and now they will be acquiring one of the league's most overpaid defensemen? This deal would be a forerunner to more deals, likely seeing the remainder of Van Ryn/Skrastins sent packing and the team acquiring one more scoring forward either in the deal, or via free agency, if possible.

All I have to say about this topic is that anyone who makes a top-five for all-time faceoff men and doesn't include Ron Francis on the list loses all credibility on the topic.

I believe they keep Dats/Zetterberg/Holmstrom together. After Dats, Z, and Hossa...Hudler is the next most offensively talented forward on the team. And he's far and away the best remaining playmaker. Cleary is the best remaining defensive forward, and he is also a second-line caliber goal scorer with good speed. Put him with Hossa and Hudler.

Draper was not used in the primary shut-down role for most of the playoffs as the Wings typically matched first line against first line with great success. And my lineup, which would feature Maltby/Draper/Kopecky as the fourth line, would have a Franzen/Filppula/Samuelsson third line and a Cleary/Hudler/Hossa second line. Both of those lines are capable of playing matchup defense against any team's second line, or the Draper line can be matched up against it. Helm will probably be spending most of the season in Grand Rapids as he is not out of options and the team has some roster space issues to work out; Derek Meech will likely start the season playing some forward with Kopecky injured. I want to know what line you have Samuelsson playing on; it seems from the player names you are tossing out like you have him sitting in the press box...which is amusing given that you are sitting here defending the contributions guys like Maltby, McCarty and Downey made to the Cup run but want to see Samuelsson out of the lineup?