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Why would you take Hudler off the second unit? He's easily the best playmaker playing on it...without him it would be significantly worse.

A top-six, gritty, scoring winger for a third pair defenseman? Not happening. Jacques Martin. Lebda is a career third-pairing defenseman, and neither of the other two will be Norris contenders. The Wings would have to give up an Ericsson/Kindl plus a top forward prospect and some picks to even get a SNIFF of Jokinen...there are other teams that would be more willing to part with top flight prospects because they can, and they would have more need for Jokinen as well.

I don't understand the hoopla about Weber. People act like he's some kind of elite defenseman...and yet: He plays on Nashville's third pairing. And among Preds defensemen: He's fourth in ice time per game this season. He's fourth in ES ice time per game this season. He's fourth in PP ice time per game this season. He's fifth in PK ice time per game this season. On a poor defensive team, Weber is basically the #4/#5 defenseman and a PP specialist. That he is such, and still is only the fourth PP option, speaks volumes about his skill level. In other words...there are far more important players the Predleys should be worried about the performances of.

I'd rather have every goal that goes past Dom be of the 'crappy' variety. Because that means that the team isn't allowing good chances. If Dom allows 3 bad goals every two games, and the Wings win the Cup, I don't give a s*** how bad the goals were.

I can back you up on this calfan. In game 5, Wings vs Kings, 2001, Ian Laperriere scored a goal that was on an offsides play. The linesman missed it, and the Kings ended up winning the game by a goal. Nothing you can do about it in that situation.

Man, I sure wish we had sat Hudler for Downey like some people were pushing for... Jiri's only, what, leading the team in points? Yeah....he'll never be effective in the playoffs. Ever.

The thing is, there's no conclusive evidence either way. It MIGHT have come out..it might not have. The linesman felt that it didn't. Ultimately, it's like the goal judge. There's no CONCLUSIVE evidence one way or the other...so we have to accept the call on the ice.

The third goal might never have happened; it was an empty net goal. Ellis is on the ice if the score is tied. That said, the Wings were vastly outplaying the Preds..so their chances of victory were very high even if that was the case.

Defensemen whose careers started in 1990 or later and received a Norris nomination before 2004: Vladimir Konstantinov, Detroit Sandis Ozolinsh, San Jose Nicklas Lidstrom, Detroit Chris Pronger, St. Louis Derian Hatcher, Dallas Niedermayer has been an elite defenseman the past few years...but that doesn't retroactively make him an elite defenseman his entire career. And Scott Stevens didn't have any trouble getting recognized with Norris consideration in New Jersey for much of the 1990s.

I thought Hudler was the best player on the team for the first 40. He wasn't out much, but he was ALWAYS creating offense, and even mixed it up when the Preds took a run at Draper. I especially liked the Franzen/Hudler/Cleary line that produced the first goal.

Here's one they missed: Brian Rafalski and Moby

I thought Tootoo's goal was weak, actually. Yes, it was deflected, but my complaint is that the deflected puck hit Hasek's stick and pushed through it into the net. Aside from that, though, Dom played very well and overall, had a strong game. Also, happy for Franzen that he was named second star...but I didn't think he was one of the Wings' top three forwards, let alone the second best player on the ice.

Neither has a large enough sample size this season to make that determination. You have to take significantly more than either guy has before you've faced enough opponents to make your percentage an accurate representation of your ability in general, rather than a representation of how you compare to a few opponents. For example, say All Drake's faceoffs came against guys like Nichol, Malhotra, McDonald, Fedorov, and Ryan Johnson. Those are the top-5 non-Wings faceoff men who played primarily in the Central this season. They won on average 56.9% of their faceoffs on the average as a group. By comparison, say Hartigan's primary opponents have been Jiri Novotny, Jason Arnott, Fredrik Modin, Colin Fraser, and David Vyborny. The average for those guys is below 40%. I didn't research it that deeply, but if that were the case, I would argue that Drake had the better year for faceoffs

Drake is a natural center and has played there quite a bit throughout his career. He also is usually pretty close to 50% on draws.

The numbers I worked out for Hossa did not include Brad Stuart. Stuart, if he returns, will see close to 4m. That uses up most of what I had alloted for Hossa.

The Wings cannot afford to pick up a young player who is better than Fedorov for a long term deal because of Zetterberg's contract status. If Fedorov is willing to take a 1 or 2 year deal worth less than 2m per year, it would be a good investment for the Wings as far as quality of play and length of deal. However, the Wings have Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Filppula, Cleary, Hudler, Holmstrom, Franzen, Draper, Maltby, Kopecky, and Samuelsson either under contract for next year, or RFAs expected to return. That leaves two spots on the roster for the team to possibly acquire Bruunstrom and/or Fedorov, and/or to retain one or more of Downey, Drake, McCarty, and Hartigan. The Wings would get one more open spot to possibly use for a forward if one of Meech, Lebda, Quincey, Lilja, or Stuart does not come back next year. The ideal solution from a contract and roster standpoint would see the Wings let go of as Samuelsson. That allows the Wings to add three forwards to the existing group of ten. I would prefer Fedorov, Bruunstrom, and one of Downey/McCarty. If the Wings chose not to bring back Lilja/Lebda, that allows them some roster flexibility and the time to play the better young guys like Meech and Quincey, as well as the ability to retain both Downey and McCarty. The ideal lineup would be, based on these changes: Hudler/Zetterberg/Holmstrom Filppula/Datsyuk/Franzen Bruunstrom/Fedorov/Cleary Maltby/Draper/Kopecky Downey McCarty Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Stuart Meech/Chelios Quincey Osgood Howard

Fedorov is performing better offensively than Yzerman did at the same age. So if Fedorov is washed up because of his declining offense, so was Yzerman. I love Steve Yzerman...but that statement was just plain ignorant.

The ice used to be blue, and the crease and net area were painted white. After a couple years of that they swapped the color scheme to make the puck more visible. As far as ads on the ice...we already have them and it doesn't cause a problem for the players or for viewing...so I don't care if they add a few more.

So you're saying that in a contract negotiation, if you only have ONE requirement, and the other party tells you they will meet it , and then pulls that offer and responds with continued reductions in the offer...you would still take the deal if someone else met your ONE REQUIREMENT? I still say this...anyone who is angry with Fedorov for leaving is angry because he was key to the team. In which case, you should be angry with HOLLAND for not keeping him when he had the option.

And I state again...if the team lost Dats (or Z, for that matter) for the entire season...they would feel it, but they would survive. If they lost Lids, that would be much more significant. I feel Dats and Z are pretty close in terms of value to the team...and obviously the team has gone stretches without each player (Z more often) i nthe lineup with fairly little trouble in the past couple years. Lidstrom is almost never out of the lineup, so it's hard to gauge how the team handles his absence when it never happens. But the entire offensive and defensive scheme revolve around Lidstrom and his skills. Even the other defensemen on the team ,they are acquired because they have the right kind of skills to play in a system designed to funnel through Nick Lidstrom and allow the team to still be effective when Lidstrom isn't on the ice. It's one of the reasons guys like Hatcher and Krupp had so much less success than Murphy, Duchesne, and Schneider. The latter group is much more capable of playing the same kind of puck-possession style the Wings use, and the Wings use that style largely due to Lidstrom. This season, I would rate Lidstrom in the top four for MVP, along with Ovechkin, Malkin, and Brodeur. The next tier of guys would include Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Iginla, Luongo, Alfredsson, Kovalev, and Lundqvist, among others.

Here are my picks. I will keep in the tradition of picking my entire run before the first puck drops. We'll see how close I get. WESTERN CONFERENCE: (1) Detroit Red Wings 4 vs. (8) Nashville Predators 1 (2) San Jose Sharks 4 vs. (7) Calgary Flames 3 (3) Minnesota Wild 3 vs. (6) Colorado Avalanche 4 (4) Anaheim Ducks 4 vs. (5) Dallas Stars 2 (1) Detroit Red Wings 4 vs. (6) Colorado Avalanche 1 (2) San Jose Sharks 4 vs. (4) Anaheim Ducks 3 (1) Detroit Red Wings 4 vs. (2) San Jose Sharks 2 EASTERN CONFERENCE: (1) Montreal Canadiens 4 vs. (8) Boston Bruins 2 (2) Pittsburgh Penguins 4 vs. (7) Ottawa Senators 1 (3) Washington Capitals 4 vs. (6) Philadelphia Flyers 1 (4) New Jersey Devils 4 vs. (5) New York Rangers 3 (1) Montreal Canadiens 2 vs. (4) New Jersey Devils 4 (2) Pittsburgh Penguins 4 vs. (3) Washington Capitals 3 (2) Pittsburgh Penguins 3 vs. (4) New Jersey Devils 4 STANLEY CUP FINALS: (1) Detroit Red Wings 4 vs. (4) New Jersey Devils 2

Why are we spending $5-7m for a guy who is older than Kronwall and no better? Why not use $4m to acquire the second liner, and save some major cash?

I look at it this way, GST. The 'typical' criteria for a player to have their jersey retired go like this. The player was among the team's best players in his time with the club. The player was a key to some of the team's top seasons in recent memory and/or a Cup championship. The player played a large part of his career, including the majority of his prime, in that uniform. The player is considered among the best players that team has had at that position in its history. The player is on good terms with the organization. Players who have yet to complete their prime will obviously not be included on this list, as they CANNOT satisfy all requirements. The only exception to this is a player who played several years of his prime in one uniform and is no longer in that uniform. Any teams not listed do not have anyone who meets all requirements. These are the players I consider to meet all of those benchmarks that do not currently have their jersey retired: Anaheim: Teemu Selanne Buffalo: Dominik Hasek Calgary: Al MacInnis, Joe Nieuwendyk Colorado: Joe Sakic, Adam Foote, Peter Forsberg Dallas: Mike Modano, Sergei Zubov Detroit: Nicklas Lidstrom, Chris Osgood Edmonton: Kevin Lowe Los Angeles: Rob Blake New Jersey: Martin Brodeur Ottawa: Daniel Alfredsson St. Louis: Chris Pronger Toronto: Mats Sundin Vancouver: Trevor Linden, Kirk McLean I wasn't sure on Hasek as I am unclear on the kind of terms he is on with the Sabres organization. But I put him anyway. This list represents 19 players who COULD have their numbers retired. The actual number is likely to be smaller. I would expect probably about half of these guys to actually receive the honor. I have bolded the guys who, at this point, I expect to receive the honor. The others are my list of guys who are 'on the bubble' and MIGHT get it. Beyond that there are a number of guys who could argue for the honor in the future who are currently in their primes, including Crosby, Iginla, Lecavalier, Kovalchuk, Jokinen, Dipietro, and some others.

Because it illustrates my point that the argument that Ozzie's stats are inflated is invalid. toby said 'look at the other goalies on the teams he played on besides Detroit, they had pretty good numbers too.' So I am extending that to look at a guy who played with Ozzie in Detroit and was considered to have done very well during Ozzie's best statistical seasons. The gap there is HUGE in Ozzie's favor. I haven't said Osgood's number should be retired...in fact I have said that he would need a couple more solid seasons to earn the honor. But the argument that his stats are inflated by his team is absolutely incorrect, as shown by my comparison to Vernon's numbers. Osgood's numbers are that good because Osgood is that good. I still don't understand why some people will do whatever they can to bring down certain players, and at the same time act like other players are super-amazing. Like people who act like Patrick Roy took the league's worst team to the Cup in 86 and 93, instead of providing quality goaltending to one of the league's BEST teams which was actually the case. The fact that in those two seasons, the Canadiens only played two rounds without home ice advantage (1986 finals vs Calgary and rookie goaltender Mike Vernon, and 1993 round one vs playoff-untested Quebec) and both against teams that finished only two points ahead of them in the standings. Combine that with the fact that 86 and 93 were two of Roy's WORST regular season performances, and it's hard to argue anything about him carrying the team...more like 'he got his play up to the level of the team' is what won the Cup. Yet people downplay the accomplishments of Martin Brodeur (5 total rounds of home ice advantage in three Cup seasons with New Jersey, including a Cup win with ZERO home ice advantage) and Tom Barrasso (5 rounds of home ice in two consecutive Cup seasons) while talking up the Cup mettle of guys like Mike Richter, Dominik Hasek, Nikolai Khabibulin, Ed Belfour, and Cam Ward, who played all rounds with home ice advantage. Hell...Roy played as many series at home in his four Cup seasons as Grant Fuhr did in his four! One of those goalies is credited with carrying his poor, s***ty team to greatness and the other is considered a very good goalie who was on an unstoppable team.

Yes, home ice advantage for the first three rounds indicates how bad a team the Canadiens were in 1986... EDIT: Of goaltenders who have won the Cup since 1984, here are the average number of playoff rounds with home ice in that goaltender Cup-winning season: Dominik Hasek 4 Mike Richter 4 Cam Ward 4 Ed Belfour 4 Nikolai Khabibulin 4 Patrick Roy 3.25 Grant Fuhr 3.25 JS Giguere 3 Chris Osgood 3 Mike Vernon 3 Bill Ranford 3 Tom Barrasso 2.5 Martin Brodeur 1.67 Yes...you read that right. Patrick Roy's team was better than the opposition in Cup seasons as often as Grant Fuhr's team was, and more often than Chris Osgood's. What blows my mind is the fact that Brodeur has averaged more series without home ice than with, which is just ridiculous. But, done with the thread jack.