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The thing is, the Wings have five guys who could be put into a discussion about the league's best defensive forward: Zetterberg Datsyuk Draper Cleary Franzen That alone will probably work against them. Combine that with the fact that Dats is probably not even the best defensive forward on the team, and he's definitely not a lock for the Selke.

Henrik Zetterberg, Pavel Datsyuk, Tomas Plekanec. All three are under 6-0 and 200 lbs, and all three are among the top 35 in scoring, which is more than can be said for that entire list save for Savard, Ribeiro, and Parise. The only difference? The first three guys I listed are European.

Two forwards currently in the lineup will have to sit if McCarty is playing in the postseason. The situation, being realistic, is that the two forwards sitting will be two of McCarty, Drake, or Downey.

Hudler was scoring at nearly a point per game over a short span when his ice time was suddenly slashed in mid-January. His slump did not cause him to lose his spot on the second line; his slump came after that.

No. Each team nominates one player, and Chelios is Detroit's nominee.

Hart: Ovechkin, Wsh Lidstrom, Det Brodeur, NJ Selke: Zetterberg, Det Pahlsson, Ana Fisher, Ott Norris: Lidstrom, Det Zubov, Dal Rafalski, Det Vezina: Brodeur, NJ Leclaire, CBJ Luongo, Van Calder: Toews, Chi Kane, Chi Price, Mtl Adams: Babcock, Det Carbonneau, Mtl Renney, NYR

Those three were all elite defenders who were used in a shut down role on their team as well as in an offensive role those years. Rod Brind'Amour is the only recent winner who was not used by his team to shut down opposing first lines. And TBH...Brind'Amour really should not have won the Selke at all. he's good defensively, but he's not Selke good.

It's like the thread about who the best offensive players are. Somehow Martin Havlat's name came up a few times as a top offensive player, despite the fact that he hasn't ever had 'elite' numbers, which are ultimately the measure of offensive performance. You can say "I think this guy is as good as that guy" all you want, but for it to be true as far as offense, the stats will bear out the truth. As far as defense...I included the fact that Fedorov won two Selkes in his first six seasons, while Datsyuk has yet to be top ten in Selke voting.

Jovanovski should be considered for the Norris. So Should Lilja, Lebda, and Meech. None of them should get a single vote, however.

Kira, time for your reality check. Here's a comparison of Fedorov's and Datsyuk's careers for completed seasons from age 21 (Start of Feds' career) through age 28 (Datsyuk's 2006-07 season): Age 21: Fedorov, NHL 77 GP, 31-48-79 Datsyuk, Rus 15 GP, 1-3-4 Age 22: Fedorov, NHL 80 GP, 32-54-86 Datsyuk, Rus 42 GP, 9-17-26 Age 23: Fedorov, NHL 73 GP, 34-53-87 Datsyuk, NHL 70 GP, 11-24-35 Age 24: Fedorov, NHL 82 GP, 56-64-120 Hart, Selke Datsyuk, NHL 64 GP, 12-39-51 Age 25: Fedorov, NHL 42 GP, 20-30-50, 24 point playoff Datsyuk, NHL 75 GP, 30-38-68 Age 26: Fedorov, NHL 78 GP, 39-68-107 Selke, 20 point playoff Datsyuk, NHL 47 GP, 15-20-35 Age 27: Fedorov, NHL 74 GP, 30-33-63, 20 point playoff Datsyuk, NHL 75 GP, 28-59-87 Age 28: Fedorov, NHL 21 GP, 6-11-17, 20 point playoff Datsyuk, NHL 79 GP, 27-60-87 While Datsyuk has the better offensive numbers towards the end of that run...he is still nowhere near Fedorov's best years. At either end of the ice. And typically, players don't do much improving once they reach the age of 30, which Datsyuk hits later this year.

There will never be another player inducted into the Hall of Fame on the first ballot who was nowhere near being HOF material at all?

Hmm. Ovechkin for Zetterberg straight is probably a fair swap. they're both among the truly elite forwards in the league. So the question is...is Mike Green worth Nicklas Lidstrom and a first rounder? HELL NO. Datsyuk and a 2nd for Ovie is as high as I would go. Green has no place in Detroit as the Wings already have Lidstrom, Rafalski, and Kronwall.

I would take Corvo, Hedican, Gleason and Kaberle over any Kings defenseman but Visnovsky if we're factoring in only their current skill level. Granted, the Kings have a guy like Johnson, who is a top notch prospect and is developing quickly. But right now, today, he doesn't crack Carolina's top four. Neither would Blake or Preissing. The big difference? All four of Carolina's top four D are better defensively than anyone LA has dressed this season.

That would be a kickass reason for me to drive to Ann Arbor also... However, my drive would be much shorter.

The difference is that Lidstrom is the best defenseman in the league at BOTH ENDS. Other guys might be close offensively or close defensively, but Lidstrom is the only name on the ballot for the Norris. He's far enough ahead of the pack that a unanimous victory wouldn't be unreasonable.

Los Angeles has the worst group of defensemen. Brad Stuart was probably the best defensive defenseman LA had...now it's probably rookie Jack Johnson.

So tell me. What were the NHL's average national TV ratings before Bettman? What's that, you say? There WAS no national contract before Bettman? Well then I see your point. If not for Bettman, the NHL wouldn't have a national contract or ratings to complain about.

Jovanovski would win the Norris if: If the Norris were for best defenseman who has been a teammate of all three of Daniel Sedin, Daniel Carcillo, and Dan Boyle. If somehow the voters failed to recognize the fact that there are 20+ defenseman who are better than him. If Lidstrom, Zubov, Chara, Phaneuf, Rafalski, Niedermayer, and pretty much every other #1 defenseman misses 40+ games in a year Jovo posts career highs in offense and plays solid defense. Other than those three scenarios...it won't happen.

i'm really surprised to see nabokov that low on your list, i think that's the lowest he's been on any list by far. and no toskala either. dammit the quoting didn't work right Both Nabokov and Toskala have save percentages of .908...if I were to go just by that, they don't even make the list when you look at guys with more than 30 starts. Neither would Hasek, Turco, Lundqvist or Dipietro for that matter. Nabokov has played about the same amount of games as Brodeur, yet Brodeur has vastly better numbers despite having a weaker team. Nabokov has faced about 160 fewer shots than Brodeur despite playing about a game and a half more. Why would Toskala get included? He hasn't done anything to separate himself from the second tier of guys who MIGHT be starter-capable but haven't really proven anything. You know...guys like Lalime, Mason, and Gerber.

A better setup: The current NHL adds ten European teams, and divides into four ten-team conferences, with two five-team divisions each. Teams play six games inside their division, four games inside their conference, and one game against each other conference. They would also play a second game against one other conference, rotating on a three-year basis. The European teams would have two long road trips, where they would play ten games each. Whatever North American teams were playing in Europe would have a single long road trip to play all ten teams. No roster requirement for percentage of players; that will sort itself out with a European majority in Europe and a North American majority in North America.

Yes and no. Naming it Little Caesars Arena allows some of the money to come from the corporation rather than Ilitch's personal fortune. Plus, it gives us a great nickname for the arena...the Pizzeria.

In terms of goals per game, only Osgood of my top five has received more than Luongo. Brodeur, Leclaire, and Bryzgalov have seen fewer goals scored by their teams than Bobby Lou has. In relation to other elite goalies, Luongo's influence on his team's fortunes is really overblown. He's no more important to Vancouver than Brodeur is to New Jersey, or Leclaire to Columbus. Yet people act as if Luongo is the only goalie anywhere near that important to his team, and as such that it would be a huge injustice for anyone else to be recognized as the best goalie.

So Atlanta, Buffalo, Columbus, Florida, Los Angeles, Minnesota, Nashville, Ottawa, Phoenix, St. Louis, San Jose, Vancouver, and Washington will win in the next seventeen years? That's bold, but won't happen. Maybe 29 of the teams will have won...but the Blues are still a couple decades off of a championship.

The same can easily be said of: Brodeur/New Jersey Leclaire/Columbus Osgood/Detroit Phoenix/Bryzgalov Basically...my top five goalies all have had huge bearing on whether or not their teams would be where they are right now. So that isn't a deciding factor in who to rank above who at the top. It would be like saying "The Rocket Richard winner is the undisputed best goal scorer" in a year like 2002-03 when three players tied for the league lead. Right now, Brodeur is the guy I give the Vezina to.

Since we started ranking goaltenders: Brodeur Leclaire Luongo Osgood Bryzgalov Thomas Giguere Vokoun Miller Biron Huet Garon Backstrom Legace Turco Nabokov Hasek And I'll even throw in some defensemen as a bonus: Lidstrom Zubov Rafalski Chara Phaneuf Redden Kaberle Markov Gonchar Campbell Pronger Kronwall Corvo Schneider Aucoin Meszaros Keith