eva unit zero

I love this. Everyone is always complaining 'we have too many centers' and the solution to this is ALWAYS 'let's trade wingers for centers!' Jokinen won't be acquired by the Wings this summer. If they have that kind of cap space to play with and want to pick up a forward, they'll get a guy like Hossa or Rolston who is a UFA first line winger. Not Jokinen, who is a signed center.

Well, people are already speculating what rentals will sign where next season, so I figured why not a thread about what you feel will happen with the Wings the next few years as far as contracts and such are concerned. Projected cap numbers are in italics. My take: 2008-09 Detroit Red Wings Pavel Datsyuk $6.7m UFA Top-6 forward $4m Henrik Zetterberg $2.65m Daniel Cleary $2.5m Tomas Holmstrom $2.25m Kris Draper $1.583m Valtteri Filppula $1.5m Mikael Samuelsson $1.2m Jiri Hudler $1.015m Johan Franzen $942k Kirk Maltby $883k Tomas Kopecky $500k Darren McCarty $550k Aaron Downey $550k FORWARDS $26.823m Nicklas Lidstrom $7.45m Brian Rafalski $6m Niklas Kronwall $3m Chris Chelios $1.1m Andreas Lilja $1.1m Brett Lebda $650k Derek Meech $483k DEFENSEMEN $19.783m Chris Osgood $1.417m Jimmy Howard $900k GOALIES $2.317m TOTAL $48.923m 2009-10 Detroit Red Wings Henrik Zetterberg $7m Pavel Datsyuk $6.7m UFA Top-6 forward $4m Daniel Cleary $2.5m Tomas Holmstrom $2.25m Kris Draper $1.583m Valtteri Filppula $1.5m Jiri Hudler $1.45m Mikael Samuelsson $1.25m Johan Franzen $1.2m Kirk Maltby $883k Tomas Kopecky $750k Darren McCarty $550k Aaron Downey $550k FORWARDS $32.166m Nicklas Lidstrom $7.45m Brian Rafalski $6m Niklas Kronwall $3m Chris Chelios $1.1m Andreas Lilja $1.1m Brett Lebda $650k Derek Meech $483k DEFENSEMEN $19.783m Chris Osgood $1.417m Jimmy Howard $900k GOALIES $2.317m TOTAL $54.266m Lilja is included because he is expected to be resigned by Holland and would likely ink a two-year deal. These rosters also do not account for potential trades that may happen between now and then.

Ok. Since you have such an issue with how the cap was handled this year... What UFA would you have wanted to see signed (figure 500k more than he signed for for his Detroit price) or what player who was traded at the deadline would you have traded more for? I saw no one worth having on our roster for the price they went for in either situation. As I said, I tried to predict what will ACTUALLY happen, not the NHL 2k8 trades I would make if I were the GM.

So you are saying you expect the Wings to not change due to advancing deep into the postseason. What then is the problem?

I included Lilja and Samuelsson because I expect them to be resigned, not because I desire to resign them. Although I do think Samuelsson is a good buy at less than 2m; he provides top six caliber offense (check the numbers) and is not a defensive liability. I'd love to have one more scoring forward, but having Sammy provides us with a guy who can reliably play the second or third line without any real problems. Stuart won't be coming back; all indications are that he is a rental. I would love for him to come back, because he's a perfect fit. But he apparently has personal ties to California that prevent him from leaving long-term. If we could drop Lilja and sign Orpik for the same 1.1m I listed, and add Ryder or Malone as the UFA forward for $4m or less, that would be very good. Hudler and Kopecky are keepers. Jiri has great offensive instincts and while he likely will never be a superstar, he will be a bona-fide top six goal scorer for many years. Kopecky has the talent and physical tools to be a second line power forward if he can get his offense in gear, and if he doesn't he'll still be an effective checking line forward who can play all three positions.

I'd rather have Eriksson than Lilja. Eriksson never lived up to the "Next Lidstrom" hype that was based mostly on his being a two-way Swedish defenseman drafted by the Wings and not an actual appraisal of his talent, but across his career he has pretty regularly been a dependable second pairing defenseman. On more than one team he has been the best blueliner and anchored the defense. Lilja has never been anywhere near that kind of performance.

If McCarty is called up, then Downey, Lilja, or Lebda will be waived.

Only 59 forwards have a cap hit of $4m this season. There are 180 top-six forwards in the NHL right now. 184 guys had a cap hit of $1.5m or more; that includes seven with a cap hit of exactly $1.5m. 40 of those guys turn UFA this summer. Likely next season that 180 mark will be closer to 1.7 or 1.8m..but still way off of $4m. The Wings could EASILY get a top-six forward for $4m with the number available and the fact that $4m is well above what the average second liner makes.

My projected roster saves about as much cap space as we saved this season. If more is spent, Holland could realistically have Hossa in Detroit.

Salary, not cap hit. A player in the minors has a cap hit of zero, even if his actual salary is $8m.

What I would do: Hudler-Zetterberg-Holmstrom Filppula-Datsyuk-Cleary Franzen-Kopecky-Samuelsson Maltby-Draper-Drake/Downey Lidstrom-Rafalski Kronwall-Lilja Stuart-Chelios Osgood Hasek

You're right Salvia. The Wings, with the current roster, will not get past the first round. Here's to hoping that when Lidstrom, Kronwall, Rafalski, Stuart, Chelios, and Cleary are added to that roster, that the fate of the team will change. But more than likely none of those guys will have any impact on the outcome of the season, so I wouldn't hold my breath.

The NHL is not on ESPN because ESPN treated the NHL like crap. Not the other way around. ESPN treated the NHL like crap, and then offered a ridiculous lowball for rights after opting out of the previous deal which was for far more. Bettman then made the best business decison for the league; sign a deal with a station willing to put hockey first, for a decent sum, rather than sign with ESPN for far less and continue to basically condone that poor treatment of the league.

Markov wanted $4m. Had he been willing to sign for $2m, he'd have been in Detroit as Holland offered him close to $3m.

The cap is estimated at 54m. Anaheim currently has less than 5m of cap room. If we assume Niedermayer retires for good, that clears it to 11m of cap room. Take away 4m for Corey Perry. Take another 5m to resign/replace the other five skaters with expiring contracts (Weight, Selanne, Sutherby, Carter, Dipenta) and 1m more for Hillier. if you think Stuart signs in Anaheim for less than 2m, then maybe they can afford him. But right now, Stuart will be one of three places next year...Detroit, San Jose, or Los Angeles. And he'll cost between 3m and 4.5m to be there.

It looks to me like Montreal had all but locked up Hossa and the Pittsburgh swooped in. Why else would the Habs have dumped off Huet for next to nothing, if not to clear up some salary? Price is going to be good...but he's not ready to be a full-time starter just yet. I have to think Montreal thought they had a deal lined up on the order of Higgins/Ryder/pick for Hossa, and then Pittsburgh came along with their deal. Or perhaps Montreal was clearing space for a potential Hossa deal and would have only taken a signed Hossa, but then Hossa changed his mind before the deal was official but after they traded Huet.

Not this year. Kronwall has almost as many points as Schneider despite playing fewer minutes and one fewer game. But Kronwall is defensively solid, which is far more than Schneider can say. Both are top-pairing defensemen, but if I could only have one of them, and for only one season, I choose Kronner. Stuart and Beauchemin have very similar stats as far as goals, points, and +/- are concerned. The thing here? Stuart plays less per game and is on the worst team in the league. Beauchemin is on one of the best. So the fact that Stuart scores more per game=Stuart better offensively. Stuart's comparable +/- on a FAR worse team likely means he's better defensively too. O'Donnell is a serviceable defenseman. But Chelios is still very good defensively; much better in that regard than O'Donnell. Neither brings offense and their physical game is similar. Regardless of how you lay out the #6 and #7 defensemen, Detroit is better overall from #1 to #6.

McCarty won't play if he's not an upgrade over what's currently on the roster. We already know Simon is not. So if McCarty plays, it means he is a better fit than Simon.

"Lynch" is associated with racial tension due to the prevalence of the lynching of blacks by the KKK. That said, lynch means to punish someone through the use of physicla harm, often mob violence. Using the term is NOT a racial slur and anyone who is offended by the use of the term in the correct context is being overly sensitive about something that does not have any racial orientation. Maybe you'd have preferred a title like "All 'Kill the Whitey Holland' threads merged" or something...which is ABSOLUTELY a racially charged and denigrating statement.

Well, let's look at what each player brings. Lebda brings speed and decent play at each end. Nothing spectacular, but he's well balanced. He's small and does not handle physical forwards well. Lebda's speed is his only real asset that makes an argument for his inclusion in the lineup on an everyday basis. Lilja brings a slower, more position-based defensive game. Lilja is the best shot blocker on the team and one of the best penalty killers, and plays a physical game. He is not very offensively skilled but can pass the puck effectively enough to play in our system. Now, let's take a look at what we have above them. The Wings' top four are all good two-way defensemen, but only Kronwall and Stuart play any kind of physical hockey. Chelios plays a gritty game and is good defensively. The Wings' top five generally lacks size more than skating. So ultimately, Lilja adds size, grit, physicality, and solid defense while Lebda only adds speed. No contest, Lilja is the better fit for the 6th spot. Had it been Foote instead of Stuart, the answer might have been Lebda. But at this point, I think I'd rather see Meech instead of Lebda.

Well, I'll put it this way. The Wings' major needs were a defensively capable, gritty defenseman and someone to take Sammy's place on the power play. With Stuart, they fill both holes. Ideally, Stuart resigns for 2-3 years, somewhere around his current salary. His skill set first the Wings very, very well and I have been interested in picking him up since he was a Shark. The only team of contenders that is deeper as far as scoring forwards go is Ottawa. And even that is a very slight difference. Anaheim is the only team with a defense that can come close to matching Detroit's, and there is no contending team with significantly better goaltending than Detroit. A top four, two-way defenseman with grit and puck skills was the only real 'need' Detroit had. Stuart fills that hole perfectly. I wanted to see Hossa...but not at the price Pittsburgh paid. If you consider that Armstrong for Dupuis would have been a fair straight swap, then Pittsburgh gave up Christensen, Esposito, and a first pick. That would compare to Detroit giving up Filppula, Kindl, and a first for just Hossa. To that I say a big HELL NO. I was willing to give up ONE of those things, not all three. Brad Richards? It would have been him and Holmqvist for Filppula, Howard, and Draper. No thanks. Sergei Fedorov? He could probably have been had for Derek Meech if you go based simply on value. But that would have been an intra-divisional trade...so it wasn't happening for less than a guy like Hudler or Ericsson. Not worth it. Ruutu or Ladd would have cost Filppula or Hudler. No thanks. Brandon Bochenski? Traded by Anaheim to Nashville for future considerations. No chance of Bochenski in Detroit. Prospal? Picard and a conditional pick, equates roughly to Ericsson and a pick. No way in hell. So that's all the secondary scoring that moved at the deadline. None of it was worth what the Wings would have had to give up, and only Hossa and Richards would have been an upgrade over what's currently on the second line. So saying that Holland failed because he didn't pick up a second liner is false. He didn't overpay for a second liner because it was a want, not a need. He got Stuart at a bargain by not having to give up a roster player or top prospect but still acquiring the best fit available for our most glaring need. So, a grade? A-. It would only have been an A or A+ had he managed something like Samuelsson for Prospal, Lebda for Satan, or some other trade for secondary scoring that would have been an upgrade without giving up any important players or skilled youngsters.

Are you sure? Lidstrom>Niedermayer Rafalski<Pronger Kronwall>Schneider Stuart>Beauchemin Chelios>O'Donnell Lilja=Huskins That sure looks to me like Detroit's D is better.

That depends. Prospal has better numbers, but he also plays at times with three top notch offensive forwards who are skill shooters and playmakers. Fedorov has been used in a primarily defensive role by Columbus, and plays very little with the only two other skilled offensive forwards on the team. So I think the difference in the numbers is greater that the difference in the players offensively, and completely made up for by Fedorov's huge advantage in defensive play.

Willie Mitchell is the best defensive defenseman on the Canucks. But he would be probably the fifth best defensive defenseman on the Wings.

You implied the Wings' injuries had little effect on the level of play. I responded that you didn't understand the level of injury affecting the team if that were the case. And I didn't forget Bieksa. I just feel that leading up to his injury his player had been pretty ineffective and that this season he has been outplayed by six Canuck defensemen...therefore he wasn't included as a top sixer. I'd like to hear your list of how the defensemen on the two teams stack up as you seem to disagree with my assessment.