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Yahoo! Sports NHL front page lists Nick as the coldest defenseman in the league over the last 14 days. He has 4 assists and is a +3 in 8 games over that period. That projects to 41 points and a +31 over 82 games...the kind of stats that get you Norris votes. How ridiculously good is Nick when he's playing like a Norris contender and that level of play is considered "ice cold" for him? Over the 28 games the Wings have played, that stat line projects to 14 points and a +11, numbers which would place him 20th and 6th respectively if that were his stat line.

People say Kolzig is a good goalie. He used to be; he isn't anymore. That's called OVERrated.

Getting to the puck first is not an automatic no-call. That's what you're forgetting; If the tripping player contacts the puck first, the referee is ALLOWED (not required) to not call the penalty. The ref obviously chose to call it. You can't argue with the fact Hasek tripped Gaborik, and you can't argue with the fact the referee chose not to let it go for puck-first contact. No, it wasn't dirty or an attempt to injure...but it was a penalty.

To illustrate the difference between Oz and Hasek this season: for Hasek to catch Osgood's numbers as they stand right now, he would have to play the next five games, including ten minutes of overtime, and make 159 saves without giving up a goal. That's AFTER a two-game stretch that has seen Hasek allow one goal on 35 shots in 120 minutes. Not saying Hasek can't end the season with better numbers han Osgood...but the 'Osgood is better' sentiment has been based largely in REALITY, whilte 'Play Hasek' has been coming from people who hate Osgood and don't believe he can win in the playoffs (Hasek needs to find a groove if we want to have a chance at the Cup) or from people who can't accept that maybe age is catching up with Hasek (He's started slow and won the Vezina before, he'll obviously do it this year too) when in reality, Hasek is starting to come around but even in the last two games he hasn't played any better than Ozzie has all year. As far as the Gaborik play...no, Hasek didn't have intent to injure. But to argue that you can't call a penalty on that play is just as ignorant. it was a borderline play where it could have gone either way, and calling the penalty is at the referee's discretion. And guess what; the ref felt it was a penalty. It could have been let go on another night, but that doesn't make it any less valid of a call; I've seen blatant penalties left uncalled some nights and phantom BS called on others. And no, not just this year either...pretty much every year.

I personally pay the same for better service. Employers make a contribution in Canada as well. But you're right, this threadjack has gone on long enough.

None of that compares to the recap of the Calgary/Pittsburgh game. It was 'Crosby leads Pens over Flames' even though Crosby did not post a point and did not score in the shootout.

Loo, it's just that previously you took a hard stance of 'it's not Hasek, the team just doesn't play well in front of him' that was making me sick to my stomach. I just wanted to hear you admit the truth.

Hasek has had two very solid games. Maybe now one of the Hasek slappies would be willing to admit how badly he was playing earlier in the season, given that he is STILL ranked last among qualified players in save percentage.

The only situation a penalty shot can be called due to a tripping infraction on the goaltender is whenthe goaltender is behind the attacker, as a penalty shot can only be awarded on a takedown from behind. That said, it is more likely for the referee to simply award a goal, as the goalkeeper would not be anywhere near the net and that is the rule when the goalie is pulled. As far as tripping; the rule states that tripping shall not be called if it is an accidental trip that occurs simultaneously with a completed play. That said, Hasek tripping Gaborik cannot and should not be termed 'accidental' as he flung his entire body at him. If Hasek misses Gaborik in that instance, what happens? A goal is scored. Therefore, Hasek intended to hit Gaborik. And it's a tripping penalty.

Belfour wore #30 as a Blackhawk. He didn't start wearing #20 until he was traded to San Jose the following season.

FACTS: The US Government spends more in taxpayer dollars on health care than the Canadian government. The average tax burden to pay for health care for someone whose income is greater than $20k in Ontario is $600 per year for a single-person premium, which is about $50 per month. To cover my entire family, complete medical, dental, and vision coverage with Blue Cross PPO, I pay a similar amount. What's so much better about Canadian health care? Someone who makes $20k can't get free health care in Ontario; they CAN get it in Michigan.

Schiano was never leaving Rutgers...Miles may not have even been wanted. Kelly and Ferentz are the other two supposed front-runners and while I don't know the Ferentz situation, Kelly is yet again extremely unlikely.

Inspired by the Lidstrom thread, I thought we could have a discussion on who the five best players at each position were/are, all-time. So here's mine. Center: 1) Wayne Gretzky 2) Mario Lemieux 3) Steve Yzerman 4) Jean Beliveau 5) Mark Messier Left Wing: 1) Bobby Hull 2) Ted Lindsay 3) Luc Robitaille 4) Johnny Bucyk 5) Brendan Shanahan Right Wing: 1) Gordie Howe 2) Maurice Richard 3) Mike Bossy 4) Guy Lafleur 5) Joe Malone Defense: 1) Bobby Orr 2) Doug Harvey 3) Ray Bourque 4) Nicklas Lidstrom 5) Eddie Shore Goaltender: 1) Terry Sawchuk 2) Jacques Plante 3) Ken Dryden 4) Bill Durnan 5) Martin Brodeur

Richter's best season was 90-91, when he received one first place, one second place, and four third place Vezina votes. 1993-93, when he received one second place and five third place votes, was the only other season he was named on more than two ballots and the only time he received a first or second place vote. Beezer accomplished that feat eight times, winning a Vezina in 86, being named a finalist in 1996, and challenging several other seasons. Barrasso did it five times, being named a finalist five times, winning once and finishing second three times. Barrasso also won two Cups as starter on weaker teams than Richter's early 90s Rangers teams. Richter is clearly behind those two in terms of both peak performance and average performance. And BTW..Richter doesn't have better stats than the other guys. The numbers look similar, but Richter didn't begin his career in the early 80s like B and B.

You guys do realize Bettman has as much say in who plays who on what day as I do, right?

Vanbiesbrouck and Barrasso were both better than Richter, and that's just among American goaltenders.

Niedermayer lost approximately 2.3m in salary. Not including the bonus money for Jonas Hiller, The Ducks still have just shy of 2m available under the cap counting the remainder of Nieds' salary.

The Wings have the best offense in the league. The second line is scoring. The Wings' only potential need is another scoring winger, and I don't want to give up Hudler or Filppula, or any of our top prospects; and that's what we'd have to give up to get an impact scorer. I'd rather have our young guns develop some chemistry and have a few years of success instead of one shot at winning it all with microscopically increased odds, followed by a weaker team down the road.

After some of the recent posts in the thread, I feel like breaking down my list into pre-1980 and post-1980 lists might be a good idea. So here it is: Pre-1980 Center: 1) Jean Beliveau 2) Phil Esposito 3) Marcel Dionne 4) Alex Delvecchio 5) Howie Morenz Left Wing: 1) Bobby Hull 2) Ted Lindsay 3) Johnny Bucyk 4) Frank Mahovlich 5) Dickie Moore Right Wing: 1) Gordie Howe 2) Maurice Richard 3) Guy Lafleur 4) Joe Malone 5) Andy Bathgate Defense: 1) Bobby Orr 2) Doug Harvey 3) Eddie Shore 4) Denis Potvin 5) Brad Park Goaltender: 1) Terry Sawchuk 2) Jacques Plante 3) Ken Dryden 4) Bill Durnan 5) Glenn Hall Post-1980 Center: 1) Wayne Gretzky 2) Mario Lemieux 3) Steve Yzerman 4) Mark Messier 5) Joe Sakic Left Wing: 1) Luc Robitaille 2) Brendan Shanahan 3) Paul Kariya 4) Gary Roberts 5) Glenn Anderson Right Wing: 1) Mike Bossy 2) Jaromir Jagr 3) Brett Hull 4) Teemu Selanne 5) Jari Kurri Defense: 1) Ray Bourque 2) Nicklas Lidstrom 3) Chris Chelios 4) Paul Coffey 5) Al MacInnis Goaltender: 1) Martin Brodeur 2) Dominik Hasek 3) Patrick Roy 4) Ed Belfour 5) Billy Smith

Give it up, please. Hasek maybe was more deserving than Turco, But he was not more deserving than Luongo, Kiprusoff, Giguere, or Nabokov...so it's not like he's the guy who was snubbed anyway.

EDIT: Double post.

Mark Tinordi, Chris Chelios, Sylvain Lefebvre, Richard Matvichuk, Derian Hatcher were all teammates of Ludwig who were better defensive defensemen. Lefebvre and Matvichuk are the only ones on the list Ludwig really could compete with offensively. Ranking Ludwig fourth is an attempt to pay homage to true stay at home defensemen...but it is a mistake. Perhaps I was a little harsh in my choice of words...but Ludwig isn't even the fourth best defensemen among guys who played on Ludwig's teams. The inclusion of Richter must be heavily based on seeing him only in the 96 World Cup and 2002 Olympics, because he rarely distinguished himself from the second tier of goaltenders in the NHL, and was never a Vezina contender at any point in his career. Much like those who considered Bill Ranford an elite goaltender in the early 90s because of his 1990 Cup run, or those who considered Cam Ward one of the best goaltenders in the league the middle of last season. And if you haven't noticed, I have spent much of the time in this thread defending my 'crazy' opinion regarding Patrick Roy. Calling me out for slamming someone else is a bit hypocritical when you've been slamming me.

Your inclusion of Neely, Richter, and Ludwig completely invalidates your list. Ludwig wasn't even the fourth best defensive defenseman in the league at ANY POINT IN HIS CAREER. Richter was never an elite goaltender, and Neely was no better a power forward than Gary Roberts or Brendan Shanahan, both of whom were able to play at a high level much longer than Cam.

It's a good thing that I didn't say Roy never carried his team then, isn't it? I said that he never carried a bad team to a Cup. Factual statement; the only bad team he played on missed the postseason entirely. The two Cup runs he gets credited with carrying a bad team are his two worst regular seasons where the team was still one of the best teams i nthe league, and only played one opponent in the playoffs that finished with more points in the regular season; both times it was a team that finished with about the same number of points (Calgary 89 to Montreal 87 in 1986, Quebec 104 to Montreal 102 in 1993) so given the competition, Montreal SHOULD have won those Cups. Calgary had a rookie goaltender in net as well, and was no better a team han Montreal. Quebec was a team that hadn't yet learned how to win, and their great regular season was the result of a roster of great individual players that still needed to develop chemistry and grit before they could have success in the playoffs. If you credit Roy with carrying those Montreal teams to the Cup singlehandedly, then you have to do so with any goaltender of a team that played at least one series without home ice advantage. This would include the following goaltenders during Roy's career: Patrick Roy (1986, 1993, 1996), Grant Fuhr (1988), Bill Ranford (1990), Tom Barrasso (1991, 1992), Martin Brodeur (1995, 2000, 2003), Mike Vernon (1997), and Chris Osgood (1998). The only times the Cup-winner had home ice the entire time? Mike Vernon(1989), Mike Richter (1994), Ed Belfour (1999), Patrick Roy (2001) and Dominik Hasek (2002) never began a series on the road in a Cup year. That's not a long list. Roy played three series in four Cup seasons on the road; Barrasso played four in two years. Is Barrasso just that much better than Roy that he was able to carry such an obviously inferior team to two consecutive Cups, something Roy never achieved? Or is it just that you have to have team and goaltender playing well at the right time to win the Cup, and there is no such thing as a goaltender 'carrying a bad team to the Cup' because bad teams DON'T WIN THE CUP, PERIOD.

In that case, I submit for consideration one Christopher Osgood, who has a better career win/loss record, has never missed the playoffs, and has never had a losing season. Ozzie also has never had a GAA over 3, which Roy has posted twice. Ozzie clearly carried his team more than Roy did, since Osgood NEVER missed the postseason.