eva unit zero

Fill the hole left by Flip? You do realize in that scenario we just added Vincent Lecavalier, and Flip was the only forward going the other way? Vinny IS the guy filling the hole left by Flip! That said, it's not gonna happen.

I actually think Richter falls just short of that group of guys. Richter was never a Vezina contender; all the other guys (Osgood included) were at the very least named to the second All-Star team. How I would rank the top ten goalies of the post 1980 generation? Active goalies in italics. 1) Martin Brodeur 2) Patrick Roy 3) Dominik Hasek 4) Billy Smith 5) Ed Belfour 6) Grant Fuhr 7) Chris Osgood 8) Curtis Joseph 9) Tom Barrasso 10) Mike Vernon

I was more saying that over each 20-25 year period it's generally about ten goaltenders who get inducted from said period. Osgood is one of the ten best goaltenders from his era, meaning that if they stick to the same kind of pattern, he should end up in the Hall.

Regardless, Michigan beating Wisconsin and losing to OSU still would have sent them to the Cap One bowl, as OSU lost. Here's the potential bowl assignments for the leaders in the Big Ten based on the two games that matter. IF: OSU d. UM THEN: OSU/Rose, UM/Capital One, Illinois/Outback IF: UM d. OSU, Illiniois d. Northwestern THEN: UM/Rose, Illinois/Capital One, OSU/Outback IF: UM d. OSU, Northwestern d. Illiniois THEN: UM/Rose, OSU/Capital One, Illinois/Outback

I fail to see why last year's success for USC has any bearing on why they didn't drop out of the top ten after being upset by a 40 point underdog. A logical thought process says that shouldn't be the case. Also, Appalachian State received as many as 19 points in the AP top 25 poll two weeks after the upset. Stanford had four the week following, then disappeared. That would suggest that afterwards, Appy State was viewed as better than Stanford...yet USC was still in the top ten and Michigan was unranked? It doesn't boil down to 'well, USC had sustained success' it boils down to the fact that it has become a popular thing to disrespect Big Ten football. Seriously. TEN teams in the Big Ten are bowl eligible. That matches the twelve-team SEC, which is supposedly the greatest thing college football has ever seen. The ACC has seven, the Big East and Pac-10 have five. Yet the Big Ten is talked about like it's some disgrace to college football.

If Michigan had beaten Wisconsin, and OSU had lost to Illinois, and Michigan loses to OSU, Michigan does not go to the Rose Bowl. If Michigan loses to Wisconsin, and OSU beats Illinois, Michigan likely goes to the Rose Bowl regardless of the outcome of the UM/OSU game. The only game this weekend that factored into Michigan's bowl destination was the OSU/Illinois game, as OSU's loss means OSU likely won't be playing for the national title and thus will actually be going to the Rose Bowl if they beat Michigan.

But that doesn't mean he won't get a chance to gift wrap a few rings for his opponents.

I hear he's a pretty reputable jeweler, actually.

Sort of like how Hudler was ranked as the most talented center in the 2002 draft, but dropped to 58th because of his size?

Of course the game counts. But you are wrong about one thing: With Ohio State losing to Illinois, Michigan has to win on the 17th to get to the Rose Bowl. If Michigan beats Wisconsin and loses to OSU, OSU is the Big Ten champion, but will NOT be in the title game. Meaning they will go to the Rose Bow, and Michigan is out of luck. Michigan has to beat OSU. The game mattered very little in terms of determining Michigan's bowl destination.

Ok, then how about the widespread comments from 'experts' calling Stanford a bigger upset? If that was the case, why did USC REMAIN IN THE TOP TEN?

I've always wondered if he preferred an Urban setting.

Guys like Luongo, Lundqvist, etc are guys I would consider in the next 'generation' of goaltenders as far as the 'ten per generation' thing I was talking about. You're right, I should have included Vernon. But with or without Vernon in that list, Osgood is good enough to make it. Giguere has the Conn Smythe and the Cup win, but he is already 30 and only has 160 wins. By comparison, Osgood had over 250 wins at age 30. Ken Dryden had only 191 wins at age 30, but he had also backstopped the Canadiens to four Cups at that point and been named a First Team All-Star three times, plus won a Conn Smythe. Giguere has never been a Vezina finalist...Osgood was one in his third season. Giggy has a lot longer to go to become a hall of famer than Ozzie does.

If OSU players are suspended, it causes them to lose, and OSU fans whine about it..guess what? They shouldn't have gotten their asses handed to them by Illinois.

That's what burns me up about 96...he should have won the Vezina in 96. But to be fair, Osgood played his best seasons when one guy kept winning it. From 94 to 2001, Carey won once when Osgood should have, Kolzig won once when Hasek only played 35 games but posted better numbers, and Hasek won six times. Rarely has there been a situation where a goaltender has dominated the position the way Hasek has, and unfortunately that hurts Osgood as much as it helps Hasek. Patrick Roy won 3 of 8 between his rookie year and Hasek's first win. The last guy to be named a first-team All-Star three times in a row before Hasek? Ken Dryden. Before Dryden, you have to go back to Sawchuk,and before him Durnan is the only other goaltender to do it. ANd then consider that Hasek didn't just get named best three in a row, he was named best five of six and six of eight. In the 18 seasons since 1988, the following players have been named to the first team: Roy (four times), Brodeur (three times) Belfour (twice), Hasek (six times), Carey, Kolzig, Kiprusoff. The first four are all basically locks for the Hall. Osgood should have been named in 1996, and has been a top ten goaltender several times in his career. Looking at a list of inducted goaltenders, it's basically close to ten guys per generation. So far, the current generation has seen Roy, Smith and Fuhr inducted. Brodeur, Hasek, and Belfour are locks as well. That leaves four more selections for this generation to stick with the same kind of crop. The likely candidates are guys like Barrasso, Osgood, Vanbiesbrouck, Moog, Joseph, Richter, Hextall, maybe a couple others. Osgood is in the top half of that group.

The only thing Joseph has on Osgood is career wins and the Toronto media.Ozzie has w-l record, playoffs, awards, Cups, and has a good chance to get in Joseph's realm of wins, too. Roy, Brodeur, Hasek, Belfour are the obvious top four, but I would argue that in the past fifteen years, Osgood has the next best set of accomplishments.

Osgood was named to the All-Star team twice, missing the game in 97 due to injury. One problem also, though, is that much of Osgood's prime was spent with the 'World vs NA' format, which hurt goaltenders like him. In 1999 and 2000, four Eastern goaltenders played in the All-Star game. Osgood outplayed Irbe and Richter, respectively, from those two years, and was top-three in the conference had the All-Star team been conference-based. Oh, and BTW...All-Star games are a popularity contest, and have never been a reliable indicator of whether a player is HOF worthy. Unless you think guys like Valeri Bure or Viktor Kozlov are HOF worthy for their multiple All-Star appearances?

With the Wings? Never. Closest was 1996, when Fedorov posted 106 and Yzerman posted 95, and both were Selke finalists.

Datsyuk's best year as a center: 87 points in 75 games. Zetterberg has 26 points in 16 games, which projects to 130 points over 80 games. It's the same pace he scored at for the time he was at center last season. That's FAR more effective. Unless Dats is capable of scoring 43 points in his next five games at center...

So if Ozzie gets 25 wins this year (total 361), and plays 5 more seasons and finishes out with 450 wins (average 18 per season)...you still don't think he goes to the Hall? That would make him top five all time, plus the Red Wings record holder. It's a completely achievable mark.

The Devils and Canadiens were pretty damn good for a long time. the Devils from 95 to 2001 scored basically the same amount of goals as Detroit did and the Devils generally allowed fewer shots; yet Brodeur is usually said to have played for weak teams while Osgood had some sort of 90s dynasty? One of Roy's major accomplishments was leading the 'horrible' 1993 Canadiens to the Cup. That 'horrible' Canadiens team finished the regular season with 'only' 102 points, good for 6th overall. And this, BTW, was in what was likely Patty Roy's WORST regular season performance. If Roy plays like Roy in the regular season...the Canadiens likely have the talent to win the President's trophy. In the playoffs they only played one team with a better record; Quebec. Ok, what about 86? Well, in 86, the Canadiens finished 7th overall, but only played one opponent who had a better record; the Calgary Flames, who only posted a couple more points (6th overall if I recall correctly) and were playing rookie goaltender Mike Vernon. Roy's great successes in leading bad teams to the Cup are just myths. Those were good teams that benefitted from other good teams failing. The 95-96 Wings might have been stacked. But at the same time, they don't win 62 games without Osgood playing as out of his mind as he did that season. Osgood won 39 games and lost 6. Beforey o usay 'stacked team' remember that Mike Vernon, on the same stacked team, won 21 and lost 7. Vernon, who was fourth in Vezina voting the year prior, and would win the Conn Smythe a year LATER, couldn't TOUCH Ozzie's performance in 95-96. Ozzie was absolutely robbed of the Vezina that season, despite the fact that he was the only guy at or near the top of every goaltending statistic.

Zetterberg has centered Dats for most of the period from Dec 23 2006 until today. In that same period, he has been the best player in the NHL. In no period before that was Dats ever even close to the best center in the NHL, let alone best player. Datsyuk's best numbers at center are less than 100 points in an 82 game season. Zetterberg's numbers since moving back to center last season have been on pace for a 140 point season. Z is also a better goal scorer and a better defensive player. It's really not even close. Dats is still putting up a point per game; it's not like he's turned into Kent Manderville...his scoring output is still there. It's just so far behind Z's that you don't realize he's still doing well. Z is doing better now than Dats has EVER done at center. Z did better last season than Dats has ever done at center. Hell, Z plays better on the wing than Dats does at center.

If Ozzie gets 400 wins, there's no way he doesn't get in. That would be like the Ciccarelli thing, except Osgood has always been one of the good guys. Dino has the numbers to be in, but his personal conduct has kept him out...Ozzie will have the numbers to be in...and his personal conduct has been excellent.

You know how dominant the line was last season? That was with Z at center. Dats may be more effective at center than he is at wing...but Z is the best player in the league, and he is far more effective at center than Dats is.

I've heard people saying McFadden is the frontrunner right now, but Hart is only an outsider. I just don't get this. Hart has basically the same stats, and has played injured all year, which has kept him out of large parts of games. When he has been in, he has been unstoppable. How is McFadden the frontrunner on 3-loss Arkansas, but Hart, with better numbers on 2-loss Michigan, isn't a contender?