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There are one of two possible reasons for you to have said that. Either you think I don't get the point of the Downey comparison, or that I really think Hudler can score 94 goals and 281 points in one season. It seems more like you're being ignorant in failing to see my point that ridiculously huge differences in time/games/etc ruin that kind of comparison, but relatively small differences such as those between Hudler's TOI and Vrbata's TOI are not the kind that make a comparison irrelevant.

I think you are forgetting the existence of George Hainsworth when you say that. In a three season stretch, he played every single game (132 games, or 3 44-game seasons) and recorded 49 shutouts along with a 76-32-24 record. In the 1928-29 season he posted 22 shutouts in 44 games, allowing only 43 goals on the season. Incredible year, yes. Best year ever? No.

Well I'm glad you like that line. Hopefully Babcock does, because I've been pushing it for months and think it would be a killer checking line. As opposed to the killer scoring line of Heatley/Gilmour/Bertuzzi.

If the Wings sign two of Pitkanen/Wisniewski/Ehrhoff/Bieksa, that puts Stuart in the #5 spot. My ideal "realistic" outcome for this offseason is Tim Connolly, Joni Pitkanen, James Wisniewski, and Steve Montador replacing Mike Modano, Jonathan Ericsson, Brian Rafalski, and Ruslan Salei. Mursak and Emmerton take over for Draper and Miller. As for Montador, he won't put up 30 points on the 3rd pairing with no PP time. He would be closer to 20 points. Also, you say he "can put up 30+ points." yet last season's 26 was a career high. Is this where I get to talk about how Jiri Hudler "can" score 80+ points? There's a difference between having shown the ability to possibly do it, and having done it recently. When you say "he can _____" it implies the latter. If it were the former, I could say "I can run a four minute mile, throw a 90 mph fastball, AND land a 900° on a skateboard ramp." But back to real life now.

NBC Sports/Versus FTW. Anyone send this to Bettman yet? I'm sure he'd laugh his ass off.

Here's a video clip of one of Lombardi's calls: Kind of obvious why not many teams really want to trade with the Kings...

Yes, the idea of Datsyuk/Jagr sounds great if you assume Jagr still has "it". Of course, he's been playing in the KHL with international ice and rules for a couple of years now... how will that affect his return to the league? Hudler certainly didn't have the best start. Granted, playing with Datsyuk SHOULD give anyone a jump-start so I don't foresee a problem there. As for the Jagr vs. Modano thing? The Modano signing wasn't a mistake because of his injury. Modano was injured in his 20th game. He had scored two goals and eight points by that point. Now, let's look at something for comparison. Pretty much everyone on the board thinks Jiri Hudler was useless, terrible, worthless, whatever you want to call it. Neither Modano nor Hudler provided any kind of defensive help or physical play in that period, so we'll go based just on scoring. So let's look at Hudler's offensive numbers through November 26th. And the envelope says... 17 GP, 1 goal, 5 assists, 6 points. Compared to Modano's 20 GP, 2 goals, 6 assists, and 8 points... is there really any significant difference? There's the argument that Modano was still learning the system. That's a reasonable thought for a slow start. But Modano was either still learning the system or refusing to play within it at the end of the season. So it doesn't hold up. If he couldn't learn the system over the entire season, he wasn't going to be a useful player. If he wasn't going to play the system, he wouldn't have been much help. And one of those reasons, combined with his injury, are why he ended up playing himself out of the lineup. The only reason he was able to stay in for so long is because of Hudler's slump. If Hudler starts off scoring on pace for 70 points (Babcock's "expectation") and Modano is still playing like that with those numbers... there's no way he stays in the lineup. Modano was also basically relegated to third line duty in Dallas and then kicked out. The guys you bring up (Hull, Hasek, Robitaille were still producing at a high level when they were brought in. Jagr is an unknown quantity, so we can't say whether he'll be a huge success or a massive failure. But one thing is certain; his puck control style of play fits the Wings' system far better than Modano's run-and-gun offense ever would. So even if Jagr has deteriorated to Modano's level of skill, he'll be far more effective due to his ability to fit in the system easily. Jagr, if he plays top-six on the Wings, will probably score in the 50 point range. As for goals, depends on who he's with as for how many of those points are goals; last season Datsyuk scored more goals than he had assists while he was with Hudler, even though he was scoring points at basically the same rate. A Bertuzzi/Franzen/Jagr line (sounds nice, actually... alternate option for my Franzen/Connolly/Bertuzzi line?) would see Jagr end up with a lot of assists, while a Hudler/Filppula/Jagr line would see him with a ton of goals. As for Lidstrom retiring... if the Wings sign someone this season with a multi-year deal, that doesn't affect Nick. If you look at next summer and say "Lidstrom, Kronwall, and Stuart are UFAs" well then think for a second. We're going to sign at least one top-four defenseman. Stuart might end up being redundant, and the Wings need to eventually either open up space for Kindl and Smith or trade them. So it's possible that the Wings may end up with Stuart not returning for the 2012-13 season, if he is shoved out of the top-four and has his shut-down role taken by a cheaper guy acquired just for that purpose. I'd rather have Fedorov than Jagr. He's not what he used to be, but he used to be among the best in the world at almost everything hockey-related. He's still fast, has a good shot, excellent on faceoffs, great defensively, good with the puck. Jagr might bring more scoring, but Fedorov is a better match for what the Wings need. He's a versatile all-around forward who can be put in any role. Can I sever your tendon? You know, so that you can't type? Jagr being too lazy to sell his house doesn't make him a lazy player. Remember, Jagr lives in Russia right now. Selling a house in Pittsburgh from Russia, while being a professional hockey player, takes not only effort but time.

Ok. I'll rephrase. The player I'm thinking of is capable of playing on an NHL team right now. Plus, I'm not certain on whether the Wings actually can sign Hatcher before July 1st due to how long it has been since his retirement.

Is it seriously that hard to figure out? There are only two UFA defensemen the Wings can sign before July 1st who didn't play for Detroit.

Leino is playing first line ice time on Briere's wing. That's "thriving". Hudler scored like a monster when he played time with Datsyuk or later in a short period with Zetterberg. Yet that's "he can't play without a star player" so I am wondering what exactly is going through your head. You want Hudler to "thrive" the way Leino is? Hudler has much more natural talent and better work ethic than Leino. He has chemistry with both Dats and Z. Give him time on the wing with one of them and see what happens! Hudler's scoring numbers this season, even with his long dry spell, still placed him in the "second line forward" range. That shows you how absolutely sick his second half was. Of course now we'll get to the argument of "Well, he spent a lot of his second half with Dats or Z." should bring you to the conclusion of: SO WHAT? HE SCORED, RIGHT? I DON'T CARE IF HIS LINEMATES ARE THE LITTLE CAESAR'S GUY AND THE NOID! You argue Hudler doesn't work in the Wings' system. He scored 31 points in 43 games to close out the season, so that's probably wrong. Look, I get that you don't like him because he's small. That's fine. But making s*** up about how well a player is playing because you either don't know what you are talking about or don't care how well the player is actually doing? That's ridiculous. If you want to say that Hudler doesn't play well in the Wings' system because of his slump, then the same can apply to Franzen. Ship him out for a 4th rounder. See how silly that sounds? Both guys are worth much more, and neither are likely to be traded unless a good offer comes up.

I say Montador as our 6th d-man, with Stuart in the 5 slot.

There's only one defenseman I'm interested in Holland signing before July 1st, and it's someone who didn't play for Detroit last season.

The big difference is that Hudler's most effective on the first or second line with other skilled offensive players. Erskine's role and skill set doesn't work as a partner for Lidstrom. Kronwall maybe, Kindl definitely, but not Lidstrom. You guys laugh because I support Hudler and think "He puts Hudler there because of his hard-on for him." No, it's because that's where he best helps the team. Just as making a fourth line with Helm as the center, despite the fact he's much better than a fourth liner, makes the most sense because the Wings' lineup features the pieces for three scoring lines and one checking line. Helm is about perfect for that checking line.

How about this? Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) Johan Franzen ($3.954m) / Tim Connolly ($3.000m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($1.937m) Jan Mursak ($0.550m) / Darren Helm ($0.912m) / Patrick Eaves ($1.000m) Justin Abdelkader ($0.787m) / Cory Emmerton ($0.533m) Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m) Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / James Wisniewski ($4.500m) Joni Pitkanen ($5.000m) / Steve Montador ($1.750m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) Jimmy Howard ($2.250m) / Chris Osgood ($0.550m) CAP SPACE: $107,956 Yes, it gets kind of tight. If you're concerned about that, replace Montador with Janik and save $1.2m I think this roster is a huge improvement over last year; although there's no Raffi, Stuart is now the #5 defenseman, with Wisniewski, Pitkanen, and Montador coming in. Both the PP and PK have defensemen skilled in those areas; Lids/Kronner for both, Pitkanen/Wiz on PP, and Stu/Monty for PK. Connolly is the big improvement at forward, effectively taking Modano's spot. The Wings get a legit two-way center capable of playing on a top line to replace a guy who played his way out of the lineupe last year. Mursak replaces Draper, and brings a lot of the same skills but doesn't have the faceoff talents, and Emmerton takes Miller's spot, providing a speedy young skilled two-way forward at-the-ready for an injury replacement or to rest a player for a game or two. Wisniewski brings a lot of Rafalski's similar skills, plus the RH shot, and is not far below that level, so we'll call that even. Again with Mursak. Emmerton is a scratch, so we don't need to think about that for now. Montador is an improvement over Salei. Pitkanen is so far above Ericsson that he needs a shovel to see him. Again for Connolly against Modano. And finally, let's take a look at the lines I've posted: Huds/Zetterberg/Cleary - Incredible performance while together. Flip/Dats/Holmstrom - See A. Franzen/Connolly/Bertuzzi - This would be the top line on most teams, and admittedly costs as much as some of them. Mursak/Helm/Eaves - If Mursak fits in as well as Draper did, this will be one of the best checking lines in the league for a while... unless one of them moves to a scoring line, or the line as a whole becomes a scoring line. Kronwall/Stuart - Kronner is making the transition from "very good" to "excellent", and Stuart can't have a more atrocious season than he did last year. Lidstrom/Wisniewski - Lids probably won't be as good, but Wiz will provide the kind of element of physical play we haven't seen in a regular partner for Nick since Brad McCrimmon. Pitkanen/Montador - Would be a solid second pairing on most teams; Pitkanen would be first pair on just about any team in the league and Montador top four on many.

Downey played a couple of games. Hudler played about 80% of Vrbata's ES time, and closer to 65-70% PP time. That's not a huge adjustment in pro-rating at ES. On the PP, sure, but Hudler scored more than 2/3 of his points at ES. And your Downey argument is off... first-line ice time is closer to 18 minutes, but your resulting total of 240 is correct because you apparently suck at math. However, Downey was also pretty bad defensively (worse than average for the AHL even!) ... and he would have been off the ice a lot due to penalties... so even with those kind of scoring numbers, the Wings would be shorthanded a ton a la the Dead Wings days, except without their "star" on the ice. And when he WAS on the ice, his slow skating and defensive lack of awareness would lead to an advantage for the other team when they had the puck. He might score 240 points, but would he even be the team's best player? I don't think so. I'd take Dats and Z at 80-90 points before Downey at 240, if we're only adjusting scoring numbers. Of course, why not take Jiri Hudler from February 11th of this year? He scored a goal and 2 assists in only 15:23. Push that to 18:00 over 80 games, and we've got 94 goals and 187 assists for 281 points, with a +187 rating. Not quite Franzen's Feb 2nd performance, which works out to 390 goals, 390 points, +234. Niiiice.

Trade to get Smyth back, sign Comrie as a UFA, and keep Vandermeer... Run this lineup on opening night: Smyth/Comrie/Brule Strudwick/Vandermeer Dubnyk As for the potential trade...maybe Horcoff, Whitney, and a 2nd/3rd pick for Smyth, Stoll, and Johnson? Stoll would give them a solid center who is very good on faceoffs to offset Horcoff. Johnson provides a younger, more durable core defenseman than Whitney, and Johnson also is signed to a long deal.

Hudler makes up for it with skill. He produced as much last year as Andrew Cogliano, Scott Gomez, Michael Frolik, and many others. Those guys have the speed or size you mention. Yet Hudler keeps up. Based on that logic, he'd be a star player if he were a fast skater. As for the cap hit, you may want someone who provides more; but he's not overpaid. Neither is Filppula, who many seem to be turning against recently. They're paid like second line forwards and thats what they are. Perhaps I should have pro-rated Vrbata to Hudler's ice time; because that's what he would be getting. Hence why it makes sense to compare their per-minute scoring.

Cap space is based on a pro-rated number; days of the season (not games) spent on the roster divided by days in the season. New Jersey's problem was roster space; a lot of their guys were "not that hurt" so they would be out a few games, but not ten games. Putting them on LTIR means they have to be out a minimum of ten games and 24 days, which wasn't going to happen. Dropping all of these key players for several later games to have one more skater in a different game doesn't make sense. Smith makes $875k, so he could play maybe 18-20 games depending on the number of days off. Tatar at $840k is pretty close to that also. So between 18-21 games combined for the two. Pyett makes $850k, so add him there.

Well, as Nick won't be handing the C to #13, you'll be waiting a while before you get to enjoy that game. Winnipeg has Byfuglien for years, and Enstrom through 2013. If they feel they might be able to keep Enstrom past that point, Bogo becomes an asset who could be dealt to improve the forward corps. The best option I can see for the Wings involving Bogosian is to sign Erik Cole and trade Franzen for Bogosian. That gives Winnipeg another skilled winger who is signed for an extended period who can play with Antropov and Kane. If they bring Ladd back, they almost have two solid lines, each with a solid winger and center; and plenty of size. Wheeler and Stewart might be able to round that out for now if they can't get it done in FA, although they should be able to bring in at least one more scoring forward. What is really killing them is Hainsey's contract; he needs to start earning it, or needs to be traded. Filppula is the other option for a Bogo deal, as he's young and skilled all-around, someone they can build around as well as Kane and Ladd. If they sign Bogosian and intend to keep him, they might look to trade Enstrom; Enstrom, while the better defenseman, might not cost the Wings too much more if anything more at all. And the deal would be basically the same except for Bogosian/Enstrom.

I'd take Fedorov over most of the crap being suggested by people (Wolski, Vrbata, etc.) because he's actually a solid all-around player who works his butt off.

Eaves is outright better than any of our other checkers offensively. Miller and Draper are pretty similar offensively, but Miller's defensive abilities are better than Draper's now. Draper still can hold the faceoff thing over their heads... but it's not worth keeping him around just for that when we have Dats, Z, Flip, Helm, Franzen, and Abdelkader who all were over 50% with over 100 draws last season. Add in Hudler and Emmerton as other natural centers on the roster and it's hard to say that faceoffs will be an issue for the Wings. Realistically, Eaves probably has the skills to fit on a second line and not look too out of place, but he would look best on a third line. Of course, given the Wings' depth, that means fourth line; which IMHO should be Mursak/Helm/Eaves.

Hudler had a slump early in the season that was no worse than Franzen's slump, and better than Modano's entire season. Yet he still ended up in the second-liner range statistically, given his scoring and the fact that most of the players in that scoring range are inconsistent scorers who are equal to or worse defensively than Hudler. A bad season for Hudler makes him a low-end second liner... I'll take it. My real question is all of this Vrbata love going around; everyone here who seems to want to replace Hudler with Vrbata, giving Radim between $3m and $3.5m, and putting him with Dats. Yes, Vrbata scored 48 points last season to Hudler's 37. However; based on ES and PP time, Hudler's numbers work out to 14-36-50 if he had played the same ES and PP minutes as Vrbata. Hudler also has had the best career-high single-season points total between the two, and is three years younger. Vrbata and Hudler have almost identical career PPG, with Vrbata playing almost exclusively in a top-two lines role while Hudler played almost exclusively third and fourth line. Vrbata provides worse defense than Hudler, isn't known for hard work, and is incredibly inconsistent. Hudler has much better future potential, cheaper contract, works harder, and is going to be trying to prove that last season's problems were just that; last season's.

Yzerman had gone from being the best player in the league not named Gretzky or Lemieux down to centering a second or even third line. Lids has been the best defenseman in the world for more than a decade.

Re-sign Nicklas Lidstrom, Chris Osgood ($550k), and Patrick Eaves ($1m). Mike Modano, Kris Draper, Brian Rafalski, Jonathan Ericsson, and Ruslan Salei are replaced by Jan Mursak; one of Erik Cole or Tim Connolly ($3m); two of Joni Pitkanen, James Wisniewski, Kevin Bieksa, or Christian Ehrhoff, (total no more than $11m), and Derek Meech ($550k) or Doug Janik. If possible under the cap after signing the first two, replace Meech/Janik with Anton Babchuk, Jan Hejda, Steve Montador, Paul Mara, Shane O'Brien, or Nick Boynton. Wisniewski seems the ideal fit, as his salary would allow for any of the others. A combination of Wisniewski and Pitkanen would allow for one of the "upgrades" I listed later, Babchuk being the top choice. So let's look at the roster. With Connolly: Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary Filppula/Datsyuk/Holmstrom Franzen/Connolly/Bertuzzi Mursak/Helm/Eaves Abdelkader/Emmerton With Cole: Hudler/Datsyuk/Cleary Franzen/Zetterberg/Bertuzzi Cole/Filppula/Holmstrom Mursak/Helm/Eaves Abdelkader/Emmerton Kronwall/Stuart Lidstrom/Wisniewski Pitkanen/Babchuk Kindl Looks good from a standpoint of now and future; Pitkanen/Babchuk establishes a second solid pairing to anchor the D, and one that will be around if Kronner and Stu jump next year. Connolly/Cole provide a skilled offensive forward who is around 30 and brings another element; Cole his physical play, and Connolly solid two-way play. Cole is also a skilled sniper, giving us another in that department. With Franzen's inconsistency and injury status, as well as the looming departures of Bertuzzi and Holmstrom, having a guy like Cole around would be a solid asset to the team.

Zidlicky is more realistic, but still has a NMC so it's probably not happening. If the Wings acquire one defenseman from Minnesota, I would place the chances as such: Greg Zanon 50% Cam Barker 20% Nick Schultz 15% Marek Zidlicky 10% Brent Burns 5%