eva unit zero

I don't think Meech being the 7th this year would put him in the 4th spot over Quincey, given how well Quincey played in the 06 playoffs. If that was how it worked, Lebda should be in your top four. And Lebda should never be in a top four... As far as 08-09? I expect to see Lilja gone as he doesn't really bring much (if anything' more than Meech and Quincey, costs more, and is several years older. At this point I expect to see one of Kindl or Quincey in the top four in 08-09.

I recently transferred stores, so insstead of having my choice of Zoup, Jimmy John's, and a couple other places, my options for eating on my break include bringing my own lunch or going to Cottage Inn. And while CI is good, its nice to be able to get something other than a 7" personal pizza EVERY DAMN DAY. Pizza rolls...I can eat boxes of those in a sitting. It should say 'servings per box 1/2'

No he hasn't. Cleary has never been a reliable scorer at any point in his career. Here's a breakdown of Cleary v Lang v Williams last season, and what they did from Nov 4th to Dec 28th, and how it compares to what they did the rest of the year with the Wings. November 4th-December 28th Lang 24 GP, 7g-15a-22p; +2g, +8a, +10p vs 'Other' prorated to 24 GP. Cleary 24 GP, 17g-10a-27p; +15g, +5a, +20p vs 'Other' prorated to 24 GP Williams 20 GP, 2g-7a-9p; -3g, +3a, +0p vs 'Other' prorated to 20 GP Other games Lang 57 GP, 12g-18a-30p Cleary 47 GP, 3g-10a-13p Williams 38 GP, 9g-8a-17p Total Lang 81 GP, 19g-33a-52p Cleary 71 GP, 20g-20a-40p Williams 58 GP, 11g-15a-26p It's also important to note that Cleary's hot streak started at the same time he was moved onto the second line with Lang from the fourth line with Maltby and Kopecky. Lang's scoring was certainly higher during the noted period, and to note that while Clearly consistently played with Lang during that stretch, the opposite winger was an assortment of players, including primarily Hudler and Samuelsson as well as Williams.

Because New York couldn't afford more than 700k without getting rid of a significant roster player? Peca said they had an agreement in place for three weeks...that means Sather was trying to open up some cap space for Peca and couldn't.

Quincey would be in the top four before Meech. Quincey is going to be in Grand Rapids this year because Meech can't clear waivers, not because Meech is better.

The thing is, Cleary's hot streak was a result of Lang's hot streak. I know Cleary is a much more popular player on this board than Lang, but for anyone to argue that Lang was the reason Cleary didn't score more goals is ludicrous, given that Lang's hot streak is the reason Cleary scored more than ten.

Fedorov has always been willing to take a backseat to players whoare outperforming him, and to do what is needed to win, such as play defense or on the wing for extended periods. Fedorov's issues have more to do with the fact that his heart and desire to win are questioned because he is Russian, and the fact that North American players like Shanahan and Primeau didn't perform as well as he did in the postseason for the Wings yet didn't face the kind of scrutiny he did over playoff performance. Fedorov was often criticized personally for a Detroit playoff failure, yet Fedorov was a Selke candidate form day one and played like it in the playoffs, and was also the league's leading combined playoff scorer from 91 to 03. It's like he was expected to score 30 points and win the Smythe every postseason, and when that didn't happen it's because he was a soft Euro who didn't care about the Cup and had no heart. Lang took a backseat to Datsyuk and Zetterberg because he was clearly outperformed. Fedorov would have had to take a backseat had he been outperformed...much in the same way that Fedorov and Yzerman were trading off the first line center position throughout the 90s based on who had been performing better.

Fedorov's presence would have caused Datsyuk's numbers to be lower. Datsyuk also would not have led the team in scoring. Those factors combined could have sliced a signficant chunk off his demands. Zetterberg's deal was fair, and he would likely have accepted a smaller contract if it were necessary. And as I said, there is a decent chance that had Fedorov been retained, Schneider would not have been resigned. Schneider, along with Lang's 3.8m, add up to 7.1m. We'd need another defenseman, we'll say 500k. You don't think that we could have saved 1.2m on Dats and Zetterberg had Fedorov been around? That would likely be looking at 3.1m for Dats and 2.25m for Hank...perfectly reasonable deals given what actually did happen, certainly a reasonable deal had they been further down the depth chart.

Andy Sutton.

Zetts and Dats would have signed for less because their roles would not have been as large in 03-04 because Fedorov would have been around. They would have signed for less because they would have been demanding less.

Brad Norton is a good quick example of someone who fights yet isn't tough and doesn't stick up for teammates. He's a bad example of a fighter, but at the beginning of the year, many of the pro-fighting crowd people on here preferred the idea of Norton to the idea of Hudler or Kopecky.

Dats has also played one more season. Other than the fact your stats for Dats are just plain incorrect, they are also misleading. Why don't we look at correct totals, as well as comparing each player's first four seasons? Regular season Dats (total): 363 GP, 108-220-328, +84 Dats (first four): 284 GP, 81-160-241, +48 Z: 280 GP, 109-131-240, +76 [/font] Playoffs Dats (total): 60 GP, 11-20-31, +1 Dats (first four): 42 GP, 3-12-15, -1 Z: 40 GP, 15-10-25, -5 As you can see, Hank was slightly better than Dats offensively through four seasons. Dats is only now becoming a defensively capable player, while Zetterberg has been excellent defensively his whole career. That is why Z is 'so much better' than Dats.

Toughness has nothing to do with fighting. A player can be very tough and not fight much, or a player can fight quite a bit and not be tough.

Lang made 3.8. Fedorov's cap hit would have been 7.6m, and has been so since the lockout. That leaves 3.8m to account for. We'd have likely seen Datsyuk and Zetterberg getting a combined 5m, which saves another 1.5m. The only other roster change that MIGHT have happened had Fedorov stayed would have been Schneider possibly not being resigned, or one of Draper/Shanahan being bought out.

Pasties and copper mines are the way to go.

In three years, Meech is probably a better player than Lebda. Heck, he might be better next year. But because Kindl and Quincey are better than Meech, you would dump Meech so that Kindl or Quincey can get 30-40 games on the third pairing in the NHL with limited minutes, instead of 80 games on the first pairing in the AHL? The Wings have to consider that up to three of their current top-six defensemen could be gone in two years. They can't just throw away a guy who has the potential to be a solid blueliner just because they have a prospect who is better. They are gonna need all of those guys, not just one or two.

Fedorov signing with the Wings would have meant no Lang trade. It also would have meant Datsyuk's contract demands would have been lower. It's not a stretch to suggest that had Fedorov stayed, the only difference on the roster would have been Fedorov in place of Lang.

The Wings have Rafalski, Kronwall, Lebda signed for 08-09. I can also see Lidstrom returning for another year or two past his current deal. So we have Lilja, Chelios, Meech, Kindl, Quincey and have to choose three or four guys to take the last three or four spots. The answer is simple...one or both of Kindl and Quincey will be in GR, depending on whether Lilja, Chelios, or both depart.

Fixed it.

Yzerman was never blamed for the Wings' loss to Edmonton. Most of blame fell on Legace and a to a lesser extent Datsyuk. The last time anyone said anything negative regarding Yzerman's ability to win in the playoffs was the early 90s. One thing in your comments that seems paradoxical...you keep saying that Yzerman's teammates didn't show up, blamed him, and then showed up after he left to make it look like he was the problem. If they harbored that much resentment towards him that they would 'frame' him, maybe he WAS the problem? Of course, I don't think that's what happened...but it's what you keep suggesting. The fact that you are angry the team did well this year without Yzerman shows me that you are a fan of the individual, but not the team.

The Wings do not need an enforcer. The Wings do not need a goon. That is the opinion you are lumping in with 'the Wings do not need any tough players.' That is a result of your error in implying fighting and toughness are synonymous.

You forgot FRI 6PM: Football IQ: Practing safe TD celebrations, featuring the Ohio State Buckeyes

For your reference, 90th (first line) and 180th place (second line) among forwards on each of the following, dividing off the first and second line level guys inthose categories. Goals: 22 (90th), 14 (180th) Assists: 32 (90th), 19 (180th) Points: 55 (90th), 34 (180th) Even though Samuelsson only played 53 games, he still tied or cleared all of the second column. Over 82 games, he would fall just shy of the first column in all three categories. That means that offensively, Sammy is a solid second liner. Defensively, he's not a liability. The 2006-07 Wings had ten guys (if you include Calder) who qualified as a top-six forward based on at least one of those categories, a list that does not include Bertuzzi or Filppula. Seven guys, including Calder, were top-six offensive forwards in all three categories.

Ray Ferraro thinks there should be 12 periods in NHL games, 5 minutes each. That way you don't get jumpy pucks like that....

Phaneuf is certainly on the bottom end of that 30, but I would definitely put him in that grouping. Generally, you're not going to see a top level defensive defenseman playing outside of his team's top three defensemen (except in very rare cases), because he is so valuable to have on the ice. Think of a guy like Derian Hatcher with Dallas, Mattias Ohlund in Vancouver, or Adam Foote with Colorado. They get top pairing time because of their defense, not their offense. So we can automatically discount anyone playing below that for this purpose. Which leaves 90 guys to fill out both lists You have to figure that the same applies to top 30 offensive defensemen, again with rare exceptions. Obviously I've included Phaneuf as one of the eight best defensive defensemen in the top 30 offensive defensemen. That means he's already ahead of 22 of the 90 guys who could be on there. Do you really think that he's not better defensively than 60 other top-three defensemen? Basically that means if you traded Phaneuf for a team's best defensive defenseman, would Phaneuf be the new holder of that title? The only situations I can think of where that wouldn't be the case are Detroit (Lidstrom and Rafalski) and Anaheim if Niedermayer stays. There are a few teams where he would beat out anyone currently on the roster (Edmonton, Chicago, Los Angeles, Nashville, Carolina, Washington) so it doesn't seem like a stretch to suggest that Phaneuf is a top 30 guy.