eva unit zero

They can negotiate, they just can't sign anything until then. Assume the cap increases over the next two years at half the rate it has been doing. That would mean that the 2009-10 cap would be around 54m. That's basically an 8 percent increase over the current cap. Assume the percentage of the cap used by the ten core players(top six forwards, top three defensemen, starting goalie) remains the same. Currently, that number is 36.643m, or 73% of the cap. At 54m, that would be about 39.5m. Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Rafalski, and Kronwall will consume 17.95m. Figure Lidstrom and Zetterberg push that total to 31m. That means 8.5m to pay for three top-six forwards. Assuming that includes Hudler and Filppula, then the Wings should have between 5m and 6m to pay for one more top-six forward.

Jovanovski is NOT an elite player. If you include Jovo, I get to include Schneider, who is better than Jovo now and has been better than Jovo for most of the years of Jovo's career. As for Lang, he was the scoring leader when Holland picked him up. That qualifies him as elite, if only for that season. The Shanahan trade, the Wings gave up an aging and unneccessary Paul Coffey, and an underachieving Keith Primeau to get the league's premier power forward. What Shanahan was when he was acquired also was basically the uppermost peak of Keith Primeau's believed potential...a mark he never reached. Trading someone who has a small chance at being the league's top power forward for someone only two years older who has held that spot for three years? That's not gutsy, that's a no-brainer. Gutsy is trading a 24-year old who was a top-four defenseman on a Cup-winner AS A ROOKIE, and is projected to be a top-pairing, franchise-type guy AND two first round draft picks for a 37-year old former Norris winner who is believed to be in his last couple seasons before retirement. Oh, wait, Holland made that trade, so it CAN'T have been gutsy.

I know...clever quote snipping failed to quote that fact, for comedic effect of course.

And all within a page. Now, I know a large part of the threadjack was my fault...but let's get back on topic!!

The major difference is that Cleary last year was totally hit or miss...he was either on fire or invisible. And his defensive game was not all there during his slumps, which was particularly troubling. Sammy, OTOH, didn't peak as high as Cleary, and is far from a star, but did provide consistent support scoring without being a liability defensively. I'd rather see Hudler on Zetterberg's wing, but I don't expect Babcock to agree right away. Cleary is best when used in a defensive role where his primary purpose is forechecking and he can use his speed and hands to create scoring chances from that. He is not suited to being a finisher on a scoring line, as his offense is mediocre, an generally a result of defensive efforts put in, and he doesn't have the right skill set to be a playmaker on said scoring line.

The only real fighter he fougt was Joey Kocur, once. Most of his fights were against guys like Stephane Quintal, Paul Kruse, Ronnie Stern, and Dean Kennedy, who weren't heavyweights at all.

Holland's team was a proven Cup winner that had just lost its best defenseman. Don't forget that.

Except that with players of that age who retire (like Malakhov) they still hit the cap. Say we offer contracts to Nick, Chelios, Osgood, Draper, Maltby, Holmstrom that have a total cap hit of 12m per season, but all are long deals that are front-loaded, and five years from now the 2011-2012 season the cap hit is still 12m, but Holmstrom is the only one stil on the roster. Combine that with likely 8m per for Rafalski, plus 7m for each of Hank and Dats, and you've spent 34m on four players.

Holland should offer Nick a ten year, 7.5m contract. That way, we have Nick until he feels like stopping, with no contract worries, and if he retires mid-contract, it's not an issue.

Asham for 925k per year is a good deal. However, Asham would never sign for that considering he made more than that last season. Asham will likely be looking at 1.5m-2m when he signs this summer. EDIT: That said, there's no guarantee Cleary doesn't return to his prior form; remember, last year was his BEST SEASON EVER, and his career average for eight seasons (not including 6 games in 97-98) is 59 games, and 8-13-21, with 32 PIM, INCLUDING last year. If Cleary goes back to that, he's not worth more than Asham.

From earlier in this thread, since you apparently failed the 'reading the entire thread before posting generalizations' seminar: Burke started with the core of a team that had just been to the Cup finals, and an AMAZING crop of talented youth. He wouldn't have been able to trade offensive cogs like Fedorov and Lupul if he didn't have guys like Getzlaf, Perry, Ryan, and Penner coming up, and McDonald, Selanne, Kunitz already on the club. Burke had ten players on his Cup team who were in the organization when he got there, and two more who had decided they wanted to sign there before he was hired. Holland's 2002 team, OTOH, Holland's 2002 team had ten such players , six free agent signings and two players drafted by Holland. When you consider top six F, four D, and starting G...and discount players whose decisions were made before the GM was hired, Burke acquired Pronger and Beauchemin, while Holland acquired Hasek, Chelios, Duchesne, Fischer, Hull, Robitaille. Burke had about as much to do with the success of Anaheim in 2007 as Holland did for the Wings in 98, except for the fact that Holland had been the guy who scouted several key contributors to that team, while Burke had no prior influence.

Probert was a better player than Lapointe ever dreamed of being. Probert played less, usually on a lower line, and yet consistently put up better seasons. Not just talking raw numbers, either. Given the choice between Probert or Lapointe in their primes, I would take Probie every damn time. He scored 20 goals in 63 games in 91-92 ON THE FOURTH LINE. He scored 19 in 78 on CHICAGO'S fourth line, after having not played in over a year. The real fact of the matter is...had Probie not gotten into drugs and alcohol, he would likely have scored around 300 goals. Look at it this way...if you assume he averages 20 goals per 80-game season from 85-86 (rookie year) through 95-96 (his last solid offensive season), which is not unreasonable because he actually DID average 20 goals per 80 games over that span, and assume he averages maybe 75 games without drugs and alcohol...that means about 200 goals in eleven seasons, if he scores at that average pace. 300 isn't that far off, especially because he scored 30 goals in 383 games after that, and he'd have been in better shape, played more, and probably played longer. Figure he plays 6 seasons, 75 games average, and has held up better over the years because he hasn't destroyed his body with drugs and alcohol. 15 goals per season average is not unreasonable at that point...in fact I'd say it's realistic. The Wings out-toughed Calgary and San Jose. They played straight up against Anaheim and weren't physically intimidated. Toughness had NOTHING to do with the Wings' loss this year...unless you consider Schneider's injury an example of a lack of toughness?

Parros played five playoff games, Adams is 6', 200, and had 21 points and 51 PIM in 67 regular season games in 2006...not sure how he or anyone else on that roster qualifies as an enforcer, considering Mike Commodore (138) and Eric Staal (81) were the only Canes that year with more than 70 PIM, with Aaron Ward, Rod Brind'Amour, and Justin Williams rounding out the 60+ PIM. McCarty was not a true enforcer, and was at best a light heavyweight. Avery is a middleweight, and he has yet to win a Cup so I am baffled by his inclusion here. The total number of playoff games played by Parker and Oliwa in Cup years is four, all by Parker in 2001. Ludwig was the best shot blocking defenseman in the league, and one of the better stay-at-home guys. Calling him an enforcer is like calling Michael Peca or Dirk Graham enforcers. Kocur was a physical grinder, but his primary purpose in the Cup years was to provide a solid defensive presence with Draper and Maltby. Lapointe and McCarty often played on scoring lines; neither was a true enforcer. Roy is the only true enforcer you have mentioned who actually saw regular time in a Cup-winning playoff, and you've interestingly enough left off Chris Dingman, who won Cups higher on the depth chart than both Parker in 2001 and Roy in 2004. Dingman actually had a pretty good shot, too, although his puckhandling skills were pretty terrible.

For a deadline acquisition to 'work out', the team, assuming it's a contender already, needs to have luck and health in the playoffs. Detroit LIKELY would have won the Cup had Schneider not had a freak injury late in the San Jose series. Obviously Detroit COULD have added a defenseman at the deadline, but at the time adding a defenseman seemed like an excessive move. Then two of the team's top three defensemen had their season ended by injury, AFTER the deadline. If Kronwall and/or Schneider had not been injured, the Wings have a much greater chance of beating Anaheim. Carolina is a good example of this. The Canes added top-six forwards in Recchi and Weight at the deadline as rentals (both returned to their teams that offseason) and all key players stayed healthy in the playoffs.

It's funny that you bring those five guys up as a slam on Holland, given that the "standard" slam is that he doesn't acquire gritty players, and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THOSE GUYS was acquired due to his gritty, chipy playing style. I guess wit hthe Holland bashers there is no winning. It's either that he doesn't acquire grit, or when he does, they're not ALSO an elite player. Well, except for Chelios.

No, having players like Jiri Fischer, Darren McCarty, Brendan Shanahan, Martin Lapointe, guys that can play the game AND contribute physically provides that 'chip.' It's not about fighting, it's about grit or toughness. And grit/toughness is best defined as not backing down from adversity. Fighting doesn't win games. Fighting doesn't serve as a deterrent. Fighting isn't even a guarantee of morale...Brad Norton's miserable showing is evidence of that. What we need is what we had this past playoff; with guys like Datsyuk, Cleary, Zetterberg, Hudler, Filppula, Samuelsson going hard, fighting through checks and not getting intimidated. That, not an enforcer, is what wins games. There was not one game this season where an enforcer would have changed the outcome, and there is not one 'enforcer' that I would have played over anyone who did play. Sure, we'd all like to have a team full with a top six of Brendan Shanahan, Wendel Clark, Cam Neely, Joe Thornton, Gary Roberts, and Mark Messier, featuring a top four defense of Konstantinov, Stevens, Chelios, and Tinordi all in their primes, and having Billy Smith in net. But that ISN'T GOING TO HAPPEN. Of the guys on the team last playoff, the only guys who seemed to disappear when the playoffs rolled around are GONE NOW, and were replaced with guys who will show up.

Hmm...Let's look at something. Elite players acquired by Burke via trade in Van/Ana....Chris Pronger. Elite players acquired by Holland via trade..Chris Chelios, Dominik Hasek, Robert Lang....where again is Burke picking up more elite players?

I said had Smid been given the opportunity...meaning had Smid been given that open spot on the Ducks defense when they decided to trade Fedorov. Smid played almost as well as Beauchemin on many nights last year, and Smid was a rookie. It's not much of a jump to suggest that Smid could have developed at a faster rate given top four NHL ice time like Beauchemin was. When the Fedorov trade was made, Smid may have been one of the four best defensemen in the Ducks system at the time. The Ducks at the end of 05-06 had a top six defense consisting of Niedermayer, Salei, Beauchemin, Vishnevsky, O'Donnell, and Dipenta. I would take Smid over O'Donnell or Dipenta even in 2005. So realistically, Smid could have been given the top-four opportunity instead of Beauchemin. But ultimately, if you include all the players who were sent packing because of the two trades, and incorporate the layers used to fill space, you come up with something more like the following in/out scenario: Fedorov, Lupul, Salei, Vishnevsky, Smid for Marchant, Thornton, Pronger, Beauchemin, and Huskins. As stated before, I would take the unit that went out over the unit that came in. Four top-half players and a top prospect for two top-half players and three space-fillers. It's funny, because Vancouver fans say Keenan was horrible and Burke was great, when a majority of the quality players and thus the moderate success Burke enjoyed were the result of moves made in the Keenan era or before. It's like how people get in arguments about Holland. Holland is a fine GM, and has done a wonderful job in keeping the team together and contending through the loss of quite a few star players, but he didn't really do much for his first Cup win. Those crediting Burke with such a good job should look to Holland for a comparable situation.

You don't think Smid, a top prospect, could have performed as well as Beauchemin, given the same opportunity? Smid is more of a two-way defenseman than Beauchemin. I think that, if Burke doesn't make the Fedorov trade and instead adds Smid to his top four, that Smid would have progressed at least to the point Beauchemin is at now. It's an entirely academic point, but not an unreasonable one. It's unlike you, Lou, to prefer the smaller, more offensively capable, defensively weaker player in a comparison...are you next going to say you prefer Hudler to Filppula or perhaps Samuelsson to Franzen?

As good as Cleary looked in the playoffs, you have to remember a couple things: He did that playingwith Draper and Maltby, two guys he meshes very well with. Samuelsson had one point and one goalless in the same number of playoff games. Samuelsson scored 14 goals and 34 points in 53 regular season games, compared to Cleary's 20 and 40 in 71. That puts Samuelsson on pace for 19-27-46 over 71 games, which would make him the top scoring returning forward not named Datsyuk, Zetterberg, or Holmstrom. In the 2006 regular season, Samuelsson tripled Cleary's output. The 2007 playoffs are the first time that Dan Cleary has outscored Mikael Samuelsson in a Wings uniform. If someone from the third line is swapped with Sammy, I would suggest Hudler first, then Franzen.

Smid could likely have performed as Beauchemin's equal given a switch of roles, so we'll assume that even. So we have to consider Fedorov/Lupul vs Pronger/Marchant. Based on the past three seasons, Marchant is a 10-goal, 30-point player, Pronger is a 14-goal, 60-point player, Fedorov is a 23-goal, 60-point player, and Lupul is a 20-goal, 40-point player. Based on offense alone, It's a difference of 19 goals and 10 points total. Lupul is mediocre defensively. Marchant is good defensively. Fedorov is excellent defensively, and Pronger is excellent defensively. The one thing that you must consider is the fact that had Pronger not been acquired, Keith Carney and Vitali Vishnevski would likely still be in town. Which means that Pronger's big minutes defensively would have been covered. Having Fedorov and Lupul instead of Marchant makes the offense infinitely deeper and more versatile. In other words, the Ducks probably had a better shot at winning the Cup without making those two trades.

I would add two teams (we'll say Kansas City and Portland for now) and cut the league into four eight-team divisions. [/font] Pacific: Anaheim, Calgary, Edmonton, Los Angeles, Phoenix, Portland, San Jose Central: Chicago, Colorado, Columbus, Dallas, Kansas City, Minnesota, Nashville, St. Louis Northeast: Boston, Buffalo, Detroit, Montreal, Ottawa, Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Toronto Atlantic: Atlanta, Carolina, Florida, New Jersey, NY Islanders, NY Rangers, Tampa Bay, Washington Top four teams from each division make the playoffs. Divisional playoff winners are seeded by record--meaning the Northeast winner could play the Pacific winner in the third round. For example, using this past season's standings as a guide, Detroit would have played Ottawa in the first round, Buffalo in the second, likely New Jersey in the third, and Anaheim in the Cup final

Dragging us back on topic... [/font] It looks from that article like our second line will have Datsyuk and Grigorenko. Which means our first line will have Zetterberg. I would expect to see lines something like the following, to start the season anyway: Holmstrom/Zetterberg/Samuelsson Filppula/Datsyuk/Grigorenko Cleary/Hudler/Franzen Maltby/Draper/Drake

Legion's grandma is back on the wagon!!! A little science on eggs and cholesterol: http://www.sciencenews.org/articles/20060506/food.asp Eating fat free beef is not necessary...a better option would be smaller portions of beef and eating chicken or pork instead sometimes. Potatoes are perfectly healthy assuming your intake is not solely McDonald's... Ultimately, the best diet plan works as follows: Eat healthy foods in moderation. This doesn't mean eat a salad for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. It means eat a variety of things and have a COMPLETE diet. On top of that, exercise is a must. If you don't have time to go to the gym, just do things you can do in everday life. Take the stairs instead of the elevator, or go jogging.

You'll feel less old after I tell you that most of those guys weren't around until the very end of the 80s and some not until the early 90s.