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The Red Wings have been one of the most expensive tickets in the league for years. While playoff tickets didn't sell well, that was not only due to the economy, but due to the fact that prices were increased several times over for the postseason. A team based in Grand Rapids or Ann Arbor would likely have significantly lower prices at the beginning.

Canada may. Hamilton no. There are better choices than Hamilton for an NHL team. Winnipeg and Quebec being the obvious ones. Hamilton is too close to Toronto and Buffalo to 'deserve' its own team. How about Grand Rapids? The GR metro area is bigger than Hamilton's, is in a hockey market, and it's much further from the nearest established teams. Or Ann Arbor? Ann Arbor is comparable to Kitchener in size, and is basically equidistant from the nearest NHL team. What makes Kitchener so much more deserving than Ann Arbor? Now, speaking REALISTICALLY, any metro area with a population of less than a million should probably not be considered to be an NHL city; metro areas that small have typically failed in recent years. There is currently only no metro area with a population lower than 1m that has its own team. Raleigh, Edmonton, Calgary, Buffalo, and Ottawa are the only markets above 1m but below 1.4m, and Nashville, Columbus, and San Jose round out the list of metro areas under 2m. The last metro areas with fewer than 1m? Winnipeg, Quebec, and Greensboro are the only cities that have hosted NHL teams since the 1930s whose metro areas currently have a population fewer than 1m.

Yeah, and McLaren didn't make the same complaint couple years back when Schumacher passed Barichello late in a race?

Fixed it.

Well which is it? "Devilish", or the trap? The two are not the same thing. This cannot be said enough: the New Jersey Devils of the mid 90s DID NOT TRAP. The trap is a 1-2-2 forecheck that is reliant on speed and positioning. The Devils played an 0-5 format forming a wall in the neutral zone. HUGELY different. This rule change was made after the lockout. So my idea for making icing have to be 140 feet rather than 90 is a bad idea, but we should change it so that most icings get waved off if the player is ahead of his own blue line? How is that significantly different? "Offsides is an integral part of the game", that has been changed many times since it was first put in place 70 years ago. My suggestion would certainly be different from what we've seen before, but it would result in faster games, fewer whistles, and more potent power plays. Because longer passes would be available at lower risk, teams couldn't clog up the middle as easily because you could just dump the puck into the corner from 130 feet away with no penalty. If your guy is faster than theirs, you may have just found yourself a scoring chance.

Tom Preissing Because he could only sign one, and Redden had outplayed Chara in the regular season and even more notably in the playoffs, and Redden would be cheaper. Muckler was also the reason Chara was in Ottawa in the first place. Who a majority of this board felt Holland should have signed to a comparable deal. Hmm...Muckler acquired two thirds of Ottawa's top line. Without him, maybe they don't catch fire? Maybe Spezza (and Chara) are in NYI, and Heatley is still in Atlanta or maybe somewhere else.

Not when he's been clearly the best defenseman in the league seven times. A good example of the lack of respect Lidstrom gets can be found in a thread on hfboards. It asks whether Scott Niedermayer is one of the ten best defensemen of all-time. Someone posted a list similar to what I posted earlier, and said Niedermayer could be argued to replace Lidstrom because 'prime against prime, they're basically equal.' That is what is meant by a lack of respect for Nick. Niedermayer has been a Norris finalist three times, twice losing to Nick. Nick had already been a finalist six times and won three by the time Niedermayer was first nominated.

Samsonov was good before Thornton--they were drafted the same year and Samsonov won the Calder the next and outscored Thornton by 40 points. Thornton only outscored Samsonov once in their first five seasons. The next time was their sixth season, when Samsonov scored 11 points in 8 games and was injured most of the year, while Thornton scored 102 in 77. In ten seasons in the league together, each has outscored the other five times. Considering Samsonov outscored Thornton on the same team in each of his four most productive seasons, it's hard to say Thornton was the reason for Samsonov's brilliance.

Orr, Bourque, Harvey, Lidstrom, Shore, Robinson, Chelios, Kelly, Potvin, Coffey are generally accepted as the top ten of all-time, in varying order.

Versus was going to have a live broadcast, but the truck for the CBC broadcast they were carrying caught on fire. It's so hilarious; People complain 'Versus should just use the CBC feed instead of their own broadcast.' Then when they do, it's 'A real network like ESPN would have had their OWN broadcast truck.' WTF?

Nashville moving to Ontario makes the Wings moving to the Eastern Conference LESS LIKELY. There are currently 14 teams that are further East of Detroit, plus Atlanta which geographically makes much more sense to be in the Southeast division. Hamilton or K-W would make that 15 plus Atlanta, meaning that even if the NHL expanded by two teams in Western cities, Detroit still would have zero chance of moving East because there would be 16 teams in each conference.

Nashville's market is several times larger than the Kitchener-Waterloo area. Nashville has no other teams within four hours, while K-W has TWO popular teams within two hours and two more within four. Bettman's ultimate goal is that all existing franchises are financially stable. This is WHY he was hired. The purpose of the 94-95 lockout was the same as the purpose of the 2004-05 lockout; the difference being that the owners caved in 95. Winnipeg and Quebec likely would never have moved had Bettman gotten his way in 95. If Bettman wanted to move all the Canadian teams, he wouldn't have fought for the cap. The cap helps all the small market teams like Winnipeg. I find it honestly amusing that people can be so hypocritical and say 'I hate Bettman, he wants to move all the Canadian teams to the Southern US' and then also say 'With the salary cap and revenue sharing, Winnipeg would be able to support an NHL team.' Doesn't that sound like Bettman has made struggling small market franchises like Winnipeg--think Edmonton, Calgary, and Ottawa--MORE viable. Yep, guy hates Canada. Bettman's goal is simple. Take steps necessary to ensure financial success of all franchises, preferably in current locations. Teams have moved less under Bettman than under comparable length periods since the 1967 expansion, and revenue is at an all-time high. The average salary is near an all-time high, yet the percentage of revenue is significantly lower than it has been in decades. Teams are doing better financially across the board. The league is more stable. Yes, there is work that needs to be done, but-and I cannot stress this enough-Bettman is successfully doing what he was hired to do.

The trap relies on positioning and quickness to cut off short passing lanes through the neutral zone. It takes advantage of the fact players can only go a certain distance before they have to turn back or receive a pass. My suggestion would mean there is still about 50 feet of 'neutral zone' when talking about the trap, but there is also 100 feet of attacking zone. By removing icing less than 150 feet, you eliminate many dangerous rushes to the puck; the goalie will now play it if it's near the boards. Dumping the puck past the trap will not result in an icing nearly as often, which means the trap teams must either be vulnerable to that possibility or be spread over more ice, opening up the passing lanes. Ultimately, the idea is to have a game where whistles for things like offsides and icing are minimal. You can't take them out completely, but they can certainly be modified to play to hockey's strengths and to discourage 'boring hockey.'

Fixed it.

You clearly have a mistaken memory--Keenan was primarily responsible for the excellent Blues teams at the and of the 90s. The 'descent' was a result of Larry Pleau 'making the team his own' which included making a decision that 'the St. Louis Blues didn't need Brett Hull.' Hull left St. Louis a year after Messier left New York for Vancouver. You might remember that KEENAN was the one who signed Messier for the Canucks. Fuhr was excellent in St. Louis. Gretzky was a rental player acquired for Roman Vopat. You would make that trade too. Keenan was not only responsible for acquiring Pronger, but he was also responsible for Pronger becoming a top defenseman; Pronger was drinking himself out of the league when Keenan picked him up. Of 22 players who played 20+ games for, and ended the season with the 2000 President's Trophy Blues team, Keenan was responsible for the acquisition of 14: Turgeon, Pronger, Young, MacInnis, Demitra, Conroy, Handzus, Bartecko, Hecht, Reasoner, Pellerin, Bergevin, Persson, Chase. That's the Blues' top three defensemen and eight of their 12 highest scoring forwards. Keenan was responsible for putting that team together. The Blues didn't go south until Larry Pleau made trades like the Conroy and Nagy/Handzus deals, let Hull go, and dropped Turek in favor of Brent Johnson, dealt Pronger for a #3 defenseman in Eric Brewer, and generally mismanaged the club. When Dave Checketts bought the team, his first move in improving the team was...*drumroll* hire John Davidson as President/GM and move Pleau to a mostly advisory role.

No. The two line pass rule was a joke intended to REDUCE offense. Removing it has been a huge success, btw. I would say, and have said for years that offsides should be modified as follows: No two-line pass infraction, and offsides and icing would be moved up a line; icing would have to be from inside your own defensive zone, and offsides would be determined at center ice. The blue line would be moved so that it is 40 feet from the goal line. This forces trap teams to press more, and means the trap can be more easily beaten. A long pass from within the defensive zone has only a small chance of being accurate by the time you reach the other end. But a long pass from the defensive zone has a much better chance of breaking a team past the red line. An iced puck would have to travel an additional 50 feet, and teams would have to clear the puck 30 feet further from the goal.

Atlanta built up with Kovalchuk and Heatley, then traded Heatley for Hossa. Kozlov, Savard, Holik, and most other notable forwards they have had were either free agent signings or acquired for a mediocre prospect. Kozlov was basically traded for a 3rd rounder (Buffalo and Atlanta also exchanged second round picks) that became Tyler Redenbach once it got to Phoenix. He has yet to play in the NHL. Carolina was not an expansion team, they were an established team that moved from Hartford. And the 2002 Carolina Eastern Conference championship team had 15 players who played in the playoffs who were drafted by the organization and/or had been with the team since Hartford. The 2006 Cup team had nine such players, but many more had been acquired through free agency or trading of low-level prospects or roster players who had been drafted by the Canes or came over with the Whalers. Also, the Preds have made many deals to acquire veteran players by giving up prospects. Witt and Forsberg are two notable examples of giving up solid prospects and picks for veteran players. Steve Sullivan is another example of this, Mike Sillinger and Cliff Ronning are more examples of the Preds trading prospects or younger roster players for veterans. That said, they have built a contending team largely on the draft and supplemented with free agency. The fans have provided solid support that has been improving yearly. Nashville has enough hockey fans to support a team. Nashville is four hours from Atlanta, the nearest NHL market. Kitchener is an hour from Toronto and two hours from Buffalo. Hamilton is an hour from Buffalo and half an hour from Toronto. Both are individually smaller markets than Nashville, and already have fans dedicated to the TWO other local teams. Keep the Preds in Nashville.

Better change that from Versus to CBC. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20070614.wspt-truth-14/BNStory/Front

Dunno whether Daniels would do it... But from the beginning of that article, it looks like most of this board owes Versus, and Bettman, an apology.

Maybe he'd have won a few if not for Gretzky...and Oates...and Francis...and about 30 or 40 other guys who'd have beaten him every year. Stevie was the epitome of class, but he was also known for having a fiery temper. That will never win you the Byng.

I think it's absolutely hilarious that the same people who feel it was a travesty Winnipeg, Minnesota, and Hartford lost their teams think that teams like the Preds, Hurricanes, Thrashers, Coyotes, and Panthers should move because of low attendance.

The Greater Golden Horseshoe and the Buffalo metropolitan area combine for about 7 million people (rounding up). The New York metropolitan area has almost three times that number. The greater New York and Toronto areas have something in common; despite having multiple teams, only one team is really supported by the fans attendance-wise regardless of success. Buffalo typically has poor attendance when they aren't winning--take a look at some recent numbers here. The Islanders typically get similar attendance to the Sabres given the same success in a season. The Rangers typically get similar attendance to the Leafs regardless of success. This would suggest that a Preds move to Hamilton and becoming the #3 team in the market would mirror New Jersey, the #3 team in the New York market. New Jersey has attendance problems REGARDLESS of how good the team is. The team might be #1 in Hamilton, but Hamilton is less than an hour from Toronto--and the team wouldn't be #1 in the greater area. They wouldn't even be #2.

And Kitchener/Waterloo already has an NHL team. Winnipeg is a prime example of Canada being no more of a guarantee of attendance than non-traditional markets. You can't sit there and say a small market that is an hour from Toronto, and two from Buffalo, is more deserving of the Preds than Nashville, which has followed the Preds since the beginning, and is four hours from the nearest NHL team (Atlanta) and almost six hours from the nearest division rival (St. Louis). Also, Hamilton would be even less deserving than Kitchener, as it is just over half an hour from Toronto and an hour from Buffalo.

Maybe you don't understand how the Messier award works. There is a monthly award, and a yearly award. Shanahan, Niedermayer, Crosby, Lecavalier, and Luongo were monthly recipients this year. Chelios was the yearly recipient.

That won't happen. The NHL already has two teams in that market. Thinking of putting a third team in a market? Look at how New Jersey compares to the New York Rangers and tell me if you think a third team is a good idea. New York has every bit the fan support Southern Ontario does, yet only the Rangers see good attendance numbers regardless of success. Toronto gets the same good numbers NYR does, then you have Buffalo getting ok numbers because while they do lose fans to Toronto, they are a separate large city that is near Toronto, rather than being just a part of the metro area. K-W is a smaller market than Nashville, and already has a fanbase dedicated to other teams. The only way we see another team in Canada or any new metro area with less than a million people is if an established team moves.