eva unit zero

None of the three Howes who have played for Detroit wore the striped jersey, just FTR.

28 this summer, 27 is next year and forever after.

Jovo makes that much too. And Schneider is the best of the three.

Here is a list of notable UFAs this summer that either I think would be a good fit, or have been mentioned as players 'we want'. In parenthesis are Wings UFAs in the same categories. In bold are the players from each category I think the Wings should make first priority. Defensive D (2--Markov, Chelios) Scott Hannan, D Cory Sarich, D Vitaly Vishnevski, D Chris Phillips, D Offensive D (Schneider) Kimmo Timonen, D Andrei Markov, D Brian Rafalski, D Brad Stuart,D Roman Hamrlik, D Sami Salo, D Sheldon Souray, D Forwards (5--Lang, Bertuzzi, Calder, Datsyuk, Maltby) Ryan Smyth, F Scott Hartnell, F Slava Kozlov, F Joe Sakic, F Teemu Selanne, F Chris Drury, F Daniel Briere, F Bill Guerin, F Keith Tkachuk, F Ruslan Fedotenko, F Peter Forsberg, F Mike Comrie, F Michal Handzus, F Dainus Zubrus, F Brad Isbister, F Goalies (1--Hasek) JS Giguere, G Jamie McLennan, G

Like Markov? Schneider's presence on the second unit and the PP is a huge factor in Lidstrom's offensive numbers recently...the other team has to be concerned about both of them, not just Nick. We have the cap space to keep him, and there isn't really an available upgrade who would cost in the same ballpark.

Daigle put up comparable numbers. Vinny played first line with guys like Prospal, Richards, Modin while Daigle played second line with guys like Turgeon, McLlwain, and Cunneyworth. Daigle often put up 50% or mor of his line's point total. Lecavalier often was not the highest scorer ON HIS LINE. Daigle was easily better in the respective first four seasons. At both ends, in fact.

The Souray comment was sarcasm because of all the "Dump Schneider, get Souray" posts that have popped up over the past two years.

Iginla shouldn't be allowed to fight anyways...I've seen him more than once get in a fight and not remove his helmet--which is generally considered a courtesy for visor wearing players. More than once this has directly resulted in his opponent cutting or otherwise injuring themselves.

We should dump Schneider and Markov and sign Souray for their combined salary to be not as good as either of them at what they do. Then we can partner him with Quincey because that's all we'll be able to afford. And since we'll have Souray locked up at such a high salary, we'll have to trade Kronwall. Realistically, the best option for our defense next season is to keep Schneider at about 3m, Markov or someone comparable (Sarich?) for under 3m, and Kronwall and Lidstrom as our top four. Give Kronwall more prime PP ice and see if he can step it up. If he is ready t odo so consistently, we explore trading Schneider and possibly replace him in the top 6 with Kindl. If not, we don't have a huge hole on the blue line from where we have no offense. Lidstrom/Kronwall Schneider/Markov(Sarich) Lebda/Chelios if Kronwall shows he can handle taking Schneider's place, we deal Schneider--possibly for a forward depending on who returns. Kindl can take Schneider's spot next to Markov/Sarich/whoever. I am glad to see the organization isn't rushing Kindl. I think they mishandled Fischer by bringing him up but not playing him much. Fisch should have been on the PP years ago with his shot, skating, and first pass ability, but never got that chance so that offensively mediocre vets like Dandenault and Chelios could be there.

The closest thing we will likely have anytime soon to Stevie is currently out with a back injury from carrying the team.

Schneider is still a top defenseman i nthe NHL, and if Kronwall isn't ready to take over his spot, we have no one i nthe organization to do it. Kindl is NOT ready for a top three spot. Also....our defensive core is old..but that doesn't mean we should COMPLETELY empty it and replace it with rookies. Unless you like giving up 35-40 shots per game and/or having no offense from the blue line?

Crosby had way more expectations than Daigle. Daigle was labeled as the next superstar....but Crosby was labeled as the next Gretzky, and the man who would break gretzky's records. Daigle never had that (except by Ottawa). Crosby also had teammates to work with. As bad as Pittsburgh was, they weren't an expansion team and had some good players to help Crosby adjust. The only skilled teammate Daigle had was fellow rookie Alexei Yashin. That would be akin to Pittsburgh replacing their first three lines of players with guys who should be on the fourth line, dumping Gonchar, and Crosby and Malkin playing on the same team as rookies. Crosby is better than Daigle ever was, but you have to remember that the highest point total any linemate of Daigle ever had in his CAREER was Randy Cunneyworth's 36 in 1997. Crosby had two linemates break that mark in half-seasons in his rookie year. A better comparison for Daigle is Vincent Lecavalier. Daigle was the better player for the first four years of their respective careers, and expectations were similar. The difference? After that four year period, Daigle was dumped off as a 'bust' while Vinny thrived with several teammates of comparable or greater skill.

I brought up Cleary because people on here seem to think that because he had a good first half that he is going to be a 20-30 goal scorer for several more years, rather than the defensive grinder he is. Saying Falloon, who was a much bigger bust than Daigle, wouldn't have made my point. Cleary was supposed to be an offensive player and never came close, and he's not considered a bust. Also..Daigle was not more highly touted than Lindros. Lindros was as clear a number oen as Crosby or Ovechkin. There was argument as to whether Daigle was even the best prospect available when he was picked. Want a bust? Try Ryan Sittler. THERE's a bust. Drafted 7th overall by the Flyers, and never dressed for an NHL game.

Kindl is a very good young player. But you have to remember something..he is in the OHL, not the NHL. Jiri Fischer was the best defenseman in the QMJHL, and it took him several years to get to the level he was at, and he hadn't even peaked yet. Schneider should be kept around for a couple more years; he is paid less than several other similar players wh oare not as good, and would likely prefer to stay for a comparable rather rather than go elsewhere for 5m.

Daigle was expected to povide 50% more offense. He provided that,at the very least.

The expectations of Cleary were to be a speedy scorer who produced 30-40 goals and 100 points. The expectations of Daigle were to be a top notch point producer who would ut up 60 goals and 150 points. I would say Daigle came closer to meeting those expectations than Cleary.

Just for the record... Daigle has played 200 more games and scored about 200 more points than Dan Cleary. So to say he 'didn't make it' is misrepresentative.

Nobody but the first two has played starter's minutes and posted a better save percentage, and Dippy has done it with a noticeably worse defense than either of the first two.

With the season winding down, it's the time of year we'll see all the 'this player should win that award' posts and threads. So, to make it easy on the mods, I'm putting this thread up for those of you interested in posting your award winners/finalists. And now, for mine. Hart: Martin Brodeur (Sidney Crosby, Roberto Luongo) Vezina: Martin Brodeur (Roberto Luongo, Rick Dipietro) Brodeur has just been phenomenal all year on a team with little help. His best defenseman is Brian Rafalski, which gives him the edge ahead of Luongo, who has a comparable defense to Brodeur except for the inclusion of Mattias Ohlund. Crosby will win the Ross and has been huge for the Pens, but Malkin and Recchi have given him more help than either goalie has had. Dipietro has been on the same level as Brodeur and Luongo for much of the year. Norris: Nicklas Lidstrom (Chris Pronger, Scott Niedermayer) Lidstrom has just been the best defenseman all year. Niedermayer has been effective defensively and leads all defensemen in scoring, and Pronger, while he missed some time injured, was the only competition Nick had for this award during the season. Selke: Henrik Zetterberg (Rod Brind'Amour, Craig Conroy) Zetterberg has been ridiculously good defensively, to the degree where it feels like I am actively avoiding the 'homer' label if I try to shove anyone else into that spot. There's about ten guys I would consider as finalist-capable, so I just picked two I thought stood a good chance. Calder: Evgeni Malkin (Paul Stastny, Jordan Staal) Malkin won the Calder before he played a shift. Stastny has made it interesting, and Staal is the best of the rest. The fact that Malkin is Russian and the way he left may make it closer than it should be. Adams: Ted Nolan (Andy Murray, Lindy Ruff) Nolan should win his second Adams in two seasons as an NHL head coach. Pretty solid statement about his coaching abilities, which makes you wonder even more why he was blackballed.

People boo Fedorov BECAUSE he was a huge part of the Cup teams. Shanahan left in the EXACT same fashion as Fedorov. Why doesn't Shanny get booed? Because as good as he was for us, Fedorov was MUCH better. Lapointe, Ward, Dandenault, Hull, Robitaille, Devereaux were all regulars for a Cup run and left via free agency. None got booed. Why does Fedorov get booed? Because he is the greatest center to wear the Wings jersey not named Steve Yzerman, and people feel we could have won more Cups if he had stayed. Peple take it as a personal insult that Fedorov left the Wings and ruined our Cup chances. Had Fedorov stayed, the Wings likely would have done better in the postseason, because even as good as Lang played for us, Fedorov was MUCH better, and was better at both ends than Lang could ever hope to be. Without Feds, we haven't had that explosive scorer with high speed and skill.The closest we have is Zetterberg, who just doesn't have Sergei's explosiveness.

It was 16m in the first season and 14m the next year (because of signing and playoff bonuses) Fedorov was the best player in the world at the time. His contract averaged out, includingall bonuses, toabout 6.3m per season. That's LESS than Joe Sakic was offered per season by the Rangers in the summer of 1997. Sakic's first year totaled up at 17m, with the same 2m base salary Feds had. Sakic's total contract value was 21m over 3 years. As of 1997, Fedorov had more career awards (Hart, Selke x2, Pearson) than Sakic (Smythe) and yet the offer he signed was LOWER and LONGER than Sakic's even though Feds hit more bonuses. Complaining about Fedorov's deal without also saying Sakic's was crazy is akin to saying 'Datsyuk's 2 year, 3.9m contract was OK, but that bum Zetterberg shouldn't have been so greedy.'

My second favorite team changes depending on the year. It's either the team that loses tous in the Finals, or the team that beats the team that beat us. Which is why 1995 was a hard offseason, right up until March 1996 when New Jersey choked its playoff spot away.

I wasn't poo-pooing. I was explaining why he didn't come up. Playing in an era with all those guys is exactly WHY he wasn't mentioned. This isn't 'guys who would be top-ten in some 25 year stretch yet to be determined.' It's top since 1980, and all of those guys played. Zubov has been very good, but very good doesn't get him anywhere near this list. Considering the number of players who were better than Gilmour most years he played, no, Dougie doesn't get consideration. Crosby and Jokinen are only being thrown out by people who have no concept that being the best player in a 27 year span means more than being one of the league's best players for a year or two. And you're right, all the guys you mentioned were more worthy than Crosby or Jokinen. Doesn't mean they should get considered, though. Beezer was better in the 96 playoffs than Richter was at ANY POINT in his career. Beezer won a Vezina and contended for others. Richter was never even a Vezina contender--which Moog and Osgood were, AHEAD OF RICHTER.

I said Vanbiesbrouck was ahead of Richter--note that Richter never started until Beezer left town, and Beezer was still better than Richter after that. I never said Beezer should be on a ten-best list of all players since 1980.

Just for reference, 1995-96 stats: Chris Osgood 39-6-5, 2.17 GAA, .911 sv pct., 5 SO. Dominik Hasek 22-30-6, 2.83 GAA, .920 sv pct., 2 SO. Mike Vernon 21-7-2, 2.27 GAA, .903 sv. pct., 3 SO. Vernon was a serious Vezina contender for eight seasons before 95-96, and would win a Cnn Smythe the FOLLOWING year. The fact that Osgood's numbers compare so favorably to what was statistically the best season in Vernon's career at the time show just how good Osgood was. But you have to remember, Osgood has shown the ability to handle a high shot count without suffering--see his stellar performances in NYI and StL. Haske, OTOH, has shown to be not as good when he doesn't see a lot of shots...one could easily make the argument that Hasek would not have done as well as Osgood had their roles been switched that season. As good as that Wings team was, it wouldn't have been nearly that good without Osgood's performance. Earlier someone said Hasek should have won the 2002 Vezina, but the team hurt him. Never mind that was the year Theodore won the HART, for which Roy was also a finalist. Now if someone can claim Hasek lost the Vezina that season (he wasn't even a finalist) because of the All-Star Red Wings, then it stands to reason that Osgood (nearly won the Vezina in 96) lost the trophy for the same reason? Third-year player Osgood was far less established as a top goalie than 6-time Vezina winner Hasek, so it stands to reason he would lose more votes to 'on a good team.'