eva unit zero

The media reported a leak that was then refuted by Ken Holland and Mike Babcock. Unless you have a link?

Daze of five years ago was a 38-goal, 70 point forward. Daze may not play a super-dominant physical game, but his physical game is underrated due to his impressive size. I would say that Daze has been a more gritty and physical player than Shanahan has for at least the past few seasons. As a player, I have always liked Daze. He has great size, is a decent skater, excellent shot, plays a physical game, and is not as much a defensive liability as a lot of guys with similar size or scoring ability. Sure, the two biggest knocks are that he isn't Todd Bertuzzi circa 2003 and that he isn't Kris Draper as far as pumping his skates all the damn time. But you know what? This team would be beter off having Daze than not having him, if only in a Holmstrom-type role player/PP specialist role.

Trading for Gionta ONLY makes sense if Hudler isn't going to make the team. Hudler's value is still high right now, if he's traded it means he wasn't good enough to make the cut. So Hudler+1st for Gionta would essentially be a 1st for Gionta. Plug Gionta, a speedy, gritty, scoring winger into the spot next to Zetterberg that Hudler might have occupied. Right now, that makes us a better team. Five years down the road, if Hudler were to realize his potential, perhaps not. But if Hudler shows signs he might realize his potential, he won't be dealt, not yet anyway. At least not for just Gionta.

My point was that if we trade Schneider for a winger, Leetch STILL doesn't make sense. Not over signing a defensive guy or trading for one. Leetch only makes sense if Schneider and Kronwall or Lebda are gone.

Don't forget to shore up the D with Aaron Ward and Anders Eriksson.

As I posted re: why Leetch doesn't make sense; Schneider+Datsyuk=Marleau+McLaren? Or perhaps Schneider+Datsyuk+Williams=Marleau+McLaren+Grier?

Of the 7 guys on our roster: Offensively-oriented defensemen: Lidstrom, Schneider, Kronwall, Lebda Stay-at-home defensemen: Markov, Chelios, Lilja Remove Schneider, we still have three capable offensive defensemen, including our two best defensemen. Our top four would consist of two offensive and two defensive guys. Even without Schneider, the unit would still be a solid one (though obviously having Schneider makes it that much better) The reason replacing Schneider with Leetch is simple: Schneider is better than Leetch at everything. The only logical reasons to remove Schneider is to make room for Kronwall or to upgrade upon Schneider. Leetch does neither. So by trading Schneider, the logical move is to acquire another number 3-4 defensive defenseman, another Markov type, assuming we go the FA route. If Schneider is the main piece in a Marleau deal, then Datsyuk is shipped out for a high end defensive defenseman on the level of Mattias Ohlund or perhaps the main piece of a package deal including a second pairing defensive banger like a Cory Sarich, Sheldon Souray, or Ruslan Salei. Although looking at San Jose's current roster, as far as centers go, if they trade Marleau, their second center would be Curtis Brown or Mark Bell. And if it's Bell, then Mike Grier and Ville Niemenen are playing on the top two lines. And as far as offensive defensemen? Christian Ehroff and Kyle McLaren at 23 points apiece are the top scorers from last season. Maybe we could see something along the lines of Mathieu Schneider and Pavel Datsyuk for Patrick Marleau and Kyle McLaren. Some other names, such as Mike Grier and Jason Williams, might have to be added in to make the money even, but that seems like a fair deal overall that suits the needs of both teams.

You said trade Schneider for Marleau. As for the Marleau rumors, that's more or less Datsyuk for Marleau according to the other thread. But still, if you can do that deal, and then trade Schneider for a winger, Leetch is still unneccesary.

My point would be what happens with Datsyuk and Lang? Zetterberg and Marleau are your top two centers. Datsyuk and Lang can't play the wing. So what happens? Do they get traded for a winger? A defenseman? Plus, the general sentiment around here is that Schneider could be dealt without being replaced as we have Lidstrom, Kronwall, and Lebda, further making me ask why Leetch might EVER make sense. If it were possible to deal Schneider for Marleau and Datsyuk for a comparably talented winger, that would be absolutely great. We would then have two amazing young two-way centers and be stronger on the wing, not to mention potentially stealing Dats away as a free agent next summer.

Downgrade on D to get stronger at center?? WTF? So what, Lang is the fourth line center then?

Because this thread is about great Wings defensemen, not great defensemen who havebeen Wings. Fetisov was never higher than third on the depth chart in Detroit, and that includes behind behind an aging Larry Murphy. If you include Fetisov, you have to include Chelios, Coffey, Gadsby, Brewer, and perhaps even Jiri Fischer and Mathieu Schneider.

Marleau would be going from being second behind one of the league's best to...being second behind one of the league's best. He may be an upgrade over Dats, but he's not as good as Hank.

Latendresse and Hudler are both projected as top-six forwards; Hudler as a scorer and playmaker, Latendresse as a grinding winger who has a bit of scoring touch. Think Martin Straka vs Martin Lapointe. As for being 'the next Gagne' Latendresse is about as far in the other direction as you can get; Gagne is not terribly physical and is wicked fast. Latendresse is a physical banger who skates like Jason Allison. Hudler is far more apropos a comparison to Gagne. And if Hudler and Latendresse are basically equal as far as future potential, and thus basically equal in trade value, Hudler should be a fair trade for Latendresse, or at the most, inclusion of a pick or lesser prospect to even the deal. Hudler AND Lang is vast overpayment to get the next Keith Primeau, but without the faceoff skills.

Thr idea behind my post, as stated right at the beginning, was that it was a more realistic proposal.

Agassi is perhaps the greatest American player ever...and that's saying a lot when you have guys like Sampras, McEnroe, Connors, Riggs, and Ashe to compare to. As far as return game, there was none better.

Seems more likely that A) Lang is the player and B) it would look something like this with the players involved: To Habs: Robert Lang, R.J Umberger, Nikos Dimitrakos To Flyers: Sheldon Souray, Mike Ribiero, and Montreal's 2nd round pick in 2008 To Wings: Simon Gagne Perhaps a slight change in players involved: To Habs: Robert Lang, R.J Umberger OR Nikos Dimitrakos To Flyers: Sheldon Souray, Mike Ribiero, Jason Williams, and Montreal's 2nd round pick in 2008 To Wings: Simon Gagne That makes more sense as far as player return--Flyers are gaining a defenseman and instead of losing two wingers for none, they lose one or two for one in return, as well as a solid young center. Montreal gets a young forward in return for one, as well as swapping a second-pairing defenseman for a center who they covet for his chemistry with Kovalev. This also makes much more sense for the Wings--why would we trade our third best center to get another guy for that spot (Ribiero) as well as ANOTHER prospect center, and a mediocre winger? More than likely if we are trading Lang, we are getting a scoring line winger back.

Lang's effectiveness isn't reduced as much playing on the third line as Z's is playing out of position. Want Lang on the second line? Trade Datsyuk for a winger.

Latendresse is not worth Lang and Hudler. Not even close. Hudler for Latendresse is probably an even deal. Lang would be worth Komisarek to Montreal.

And he went undrafted in 2005, when he was again eligible to be drafted as the Flames never signed him.

Nate Robinson...he was on the Wings in 03-04. The vast majority of this board wanted to keep small, quick, not terribly skilled Robinson over big, strong, good skater, skilled at both ends Kopecky.

The fact that he went undrafted would seem to back up your opinion. Nevertheless, I can see Holland picking him up for AHL duty and a good long look if he does well, much like Jason Williams, Nate Robinson, Brett Lebda, and Darryl Bootland.

All three of those guys are far more effective in the middle than they are on the wing. It would be stupid to hurt someone's productivity considerably for the sake of putting Lang on a top-2 line, when we can have three first line centers all centering decent scoring lines.

Hudler..he is far more skilled and with Draper, franzen, Maltby, Cleary, Zata, Samuelsson, and Johnson already on the roster, the Wings need another guy who can bring offense from the wing more than a defensively capable guy with less offensive skills. To be more accurate: Hudler is an upgrade over Williams, and is more skilled than Dats was at his age. Filppula could use another year of time in Grand Rapids.

A guy who has failed to crack an NHL lineup full time in seven seasons with three teams? Exactly what I would trade Lang for... You mean Latendresse and Komisarek, right?

Now compare Morrison to Forsberg, or Gagne w/Foppa vs Gagne without? Naslund is the better player..the fact that he has been on the NHL's first team three of the past four seasons says that in a nutshell. EDIT: Naslund also won the Pearson in 2003.