eva unit zero

If another defenseman is injured, Smith is the answer; Commodore is the spare and with White out he's slotted to play regularly. Assume Kronwall doesn't come back from the hit the other night, and both Smith and Commodore are in every night. Probably end up with Lidstrom/Ericsson, Kindl/Stuart, and Smith/Commodore to start.

Cleary scored at a first-line level last season, and scored at a better rate than Franzen. Brunnstrom was a mediocre AHL player last season. He would have been second or possibly third-line on the Griffins. We're not even to Thanksgiving yet. Cleary has more than enough time to fix his season. Remember last year, when Hudler scored one goal and six points in his first 30 games? That was through the end of December. Over his final 43, he scored 31 points, and his overall scoring level placed him as a second liner. If you go based just on his first half, he belongs as a fourth liner, spare forward, or maybe i nthe AHL. If you go on the second half, there's no way you can justify keeping him off the top line. Cleary is coming off a rib injury; those suck. He shouldn't be on the top line right now, but largely because his recovery is affecting his play rather than the fact that he's not good anymore. If we get to February and he has 7 goals and 13 assists, then yeah, put him on the third or fourth line. But I don't see that happening.

I was saying this before he was signed; he's like Derek Meech, ramped up a couple notches. Same game, but plays it much better. J-(W)izz is closer to Mike Green than Ian White in playing style. Didn't help White score 13 goals and 38 points over 83 games averaging nearly identical ice time as this season. His scoring has increased by a tiny bit; he would finish with 17 goals and 39 points if he played 83 games at his current rate. The big difference is his plus-minus. I have said for years that White might be the most underrated defenseman in the NHL. People suggest that the Phaneuf deal was a complete steal for Toronto, even though White outperformed Phaneuf the last two seasons. Phaneuf is having an improved season offensively but is still showing his same defensive issues.Toronto obtained prospect Keith Aulie in the deal, while two of the three forwards going to Calgary (Matt Stajan and Niklas Hagman) were Toronto's leading scorers. Fredrik Sjostrom and Jamal Mayers were in there also, but they were so ineffective on both sides that they don't really count. Neither is in the league anymore. The big "steal" is the fact that none of the players involved are Flames anymore except for Stajan, who went from being a defensively responsible 50-point center in Toronto to Calgary's fourth line center. Hagman was waived and nobody wanted him. Mayers retired. White was traded for Anton Babchuk and Tom Kotsopolous, and then regifted by Carolina 39 games later for a second rounder. So that's why it's a steal; because the West is harder to score in, and Sutter traded a skilled all-around defenseman for a big defensive defenseman and a fourth-liner. Dion Phaneuf and Keith Aulie for Anton Babchuk and Matt Stajan? Hopefully for the Flames, Babchuk works out. It's still not a steal, even if Sutter is making bad deals and players are not working out. Why does Maltby matter? Should they have consulted Larionov before Abs got #8? Or Sheppard before Hudler wore #26? Maybe Mark Howe before Kindl wore #4?

There is an official line changes thread here: http://www.letsgowings.com/forums/topic/70629-season-long-lines-thread/page__st__120

I like Eaves, and I want to see him succeed... But this feels more like a "He's not Hudler!" than a "Patty can do it!" kind of thing. Eaves has a good shot and is a good skater, but he's a mediocre passer. His entire purpose would be to blast shots from the point. Think Jason Williams, but better defensively and without the passing skill. That's why Eaves isn't on the PP. Samuelsson was on the PP because he has a good shot, is a decent passer, and could play defensively. He wasn't a one-tool guy in that situation like Eaves would be. Hudler is fine on the PP. He actually looked better working with Lidstrom than he ever has with Kronwall. He was the team's best player in the failed 5-minute PP against St. Louis and he regularly creates chances. I think Lidstrom/Hudler and Kronwall/Kindl make for solid PP pairings. I'd rather see Hudler up front but Babcock has his template, and his template doesn't have room for a shifty little guy who's in the league based on skill and hard work, not physical gifts.

I think Aussie's lines probably work better. Eaves is very similar to Cleary in skill set and playing style, but Eaves has played well this year. Huds/Dats/Eaves could be the new Huds/Dats/Cleary (as I have suggested in the past). It allows for FZF to stay together, puts Cleary with Helm and Abdelkader on a hard grinding line that should get him going. It's also a situation where he can be a direct swap with Eaves if Cleary suddenly turns it on and/or Eaves looks out of place. Homer, Miller, Emmerton, Brunnstrom, Bert are all left for the fourth line. I'm going to go with Miller/Emmerton/Holmstrom(Bertuzzi) as my line here. Homer's play has definitely tailed off, Emmerton hasn't been as good the past couple games as he was to start the year. Miller knows he was the #14 on the roster coming into the year (including Mursak) and has simply put his game in a different gear. Don't see it lasting, but you have to roll with him in the lineup. On defense, there's no Ian White and Ericsson once again proved he can't handle the top-pairing duty. We saw Stuart out on the PP against St. Louis, so it's obvious he's the LAST choice for Babcock among potential PP quarterbacks. Brendan Smith would seem the obvious choice to slot right in, and I'm sure he'll get time there, but Kindl getting most of the "Lidstrom-time" and Smith with Ericsson or Stuart on the third pairing makes the most sense.

Just for reference everyone, Brendan Smith was watching the game from the press box as he served the final game of his suspension. With White out he'll probably get into some games before he goes back down.

Not "as if" they were still in Georgia. The schedule was already made before the move was announced. That's why the league didn't realign THIS year. With regards to the situation of the other night, it is absolutely and always the responsibility of the team with the puck to advance it. Tampa could have lined up all five skaters at the defensive blue line, and Philly still has to try and break that. To wit: Seems pretty clear to me.

He should get at least 5. When the puck was loose and Kronner was chasing it down he skated more than half the width of the ice in pursuit of Kronwall, not the puck, and proceeded to board Kronwall. Had Stewart been going for the puck he could have taken it from Kronwall, or skated past him. He was deliberately not passing him in order to hit him, and proceeded to do so in a very dangerous fashion.

Howard over Luongo, Bryzgalov, Price, Hiller, or Ward? That's crazy talk. He has outplayed none of them over the past couple of seasons and has done nothing to suggest he deserves their spot. Brodeur finished last season like a champ and, although he's not elite anymore, is still probably more important to the Devils than Howie to the Wings. Howard vs. Halak and Reimer. Reimer has been absolutely excellent in his limited time in the NHL, and has probably been Toronto's best player in that entire span. It's like taking Selanne or Potvin off the ballot in 1992-93. Halak I addressed earlier; he's the only reasonable choice and Howard isn't the best choice to replace him, anyway. My ballot goes like this: Jiri Hudler - Darren Helm - Valtteri Filppula - Niklas Kronwall - Jakub Kindl - Jimmy Howard

25-man roster: Mogilny/Fedorov/Bure Kharlamov/Larionov/Makarov S.Kozlov/Datsyuk/Kovalev Ovechkin/Yashin/Kovalchuk Samsonov Zhamnov Fetisov/Konstantinov Kasatonov/Zubov Gonchar/D.Markov A.Markov Gusarov Tretiak Konovalenko Khabibulin The big issue with having Cleary alongside Dats is Cleary, not Dats. Cleary needs to get going, and it's clear(l)y not working. The combination has been one of the team's best in recent years and Babs obviously is hoping for that chemistry to just kick in, the same way Dats/Z, Dats/Homer, Z/Mule, Flip/Huds, or Flip/Franzen can suddenly kick in. But it's not working. And he's been there all season. It's time to move Cleary not for Dats' sake, but for Cleary's. Move him to a line with Z or even Helm, and get him going there. Get other players on Dats' line who have shown chemistry with him and have had some decent stretches this season (Huds, Flip, Franzen, Homer) and this might all be sorted out. We can't win games by scoring a goal every game and then having a couple of 5-goal outbursts. It doesn't matter if you win twice scoring five goals; two wins in eight games, scoring a total of sixteen goals, is still a lottery team. And this roster should be competing for the conference championship.

And the play developed as if Flip were on the point and Huds was the center. Interesting; his first point in a while comes as an unintentional position swap to bring him up front on the PP. Who's in favor of Hudler at forward on the PP more often? Anyone? *raises hand* Bert's had swelling in his head for years. I thought it had been going down since he stopped playing with Nazzy and Morrison, and it became apparent how much he benefited from playing with those two.

Who do you take off to put Howard on? The only realistic choice I can see (considering both skill and the fact that teams should have at least a couple guys on the ballot) is Jaroslav Halak. And that's because Halak has effectively lost his starter role this season to Brian Elliott, who has had a better season so far than Jimmy Howard - and would therefore be a better replacement. Howard might play well enough to make the game, but leaving him off the ballot is reasonable. He's an average starter on a team with a bunch of players who are "can't be left off" players. If you could only put four Wings on, who would they be? Z, Dats, Nick, and Kronner. That's the correct answer. Howard, Franzen, Filppula all are good players, but they are all secondary to that top-four. It's like Sakic-Forsberg-Roy-Ozolinsh for the Avs during their heyday. You can push for Foote, but Ozolinsh was the team's top defenseman and one of the best in the league. Kamensky and Ricci deserve mentions as important forwards, but none crack that foursome. So it's as much about the Wings having a bunch of star players as it is about Howard not being a star player. It's like the All-Star ballot version of how people perceived Chris Osgood; "he's not one of the top three or four players on a great team, and he's given up a couple of bad goals in his career. He's average at best." If Howard plays like he's capable, he'll be an All-Star. If he plays like he did last year, Joey MacDonald or a trade acquisition will be starting for the Wings in the playoffs.

Not really, more like the puck got caught up in his feet as he recovered from his broken stick.

Hudler is better than average... but let's be realistic. A team full of Drapers at forward and generic average defensemen and goaltending would probably never win the Cup. A team full of Hudlers (and same goaltending/d) would probably never win the Cup. A team with six Hudlers and six Drapers? Now we're talking a much better chance at the Cup. Still have issues on D and in net, so the Cup is probably not realistic, but definitely playoff shot goes up even though overall player quality goes down. Hockey is a team game; you have to combine the right pieces to win; you can't just go get good players and play them together; they might not well together (see Hudler/Modano) because of significantly different skill sets and play styles, ruining those players' seasons if they play together for any extended period. Others might be great combinations (Gretzky/Kurri, Hull/Oates, Lemieux/anybody, Trottier/Bossy, Esposito/Bucyk, Datsyuk/Zetterberg, Kariya/Selanne) and they will increase the ultimate result from those players over an extended period. A team full of Drapers might give you a chance to win the occasional game; but that's what, 100-150 goals on a season?

Hudler scored a point in each of the first four games. He failed to score a point in the 5-2 whooping of Columbus, and was demoted early on in the Washington debacle. Yes, "struggling" Hudler, who was leading the team in ES points at the time, was demoted. More like "The Wings had trouble scoring, and Hudler's gone two games without a point. Sit the bastard!" Bertuzzi and Cleary have been FAR worse than Hudler this season, yet Hudler is the only one who has seen time in the press box. Hudler has been working hard and creating chances, yet plays on the third line with defensive grinders, while getting PP time that limits his offensive opportunity. Bertuzzi and Cleary have been getting top-six time and prime PP time. WTF? They cloned him? Is that why Holland kept that open cap space? So we could run Flip/Dats1/Homer, Huds/Dats2/Cleary, Mule/Z/Bert, and Abs/Helm/Eaves as the lines? Hudler works much harder than Bertuzzi or Franzen, or most "top-six" forwards in the league. If he were actually given the opportunity FOR REAL he would produce a serious amount of offense. But Babcock would rather play a slumping Cleary, a worthless Bertuzzi or even an offensively useless Abdelkader because they're bigger than Huds. Cleary, when playing well, is perfectly capable of playing the "shooter" role. The problem is that he's NOT playing well, and is probably nursing an injury right now; he likely should be out of the lineup. Most intelligent thing you've said all post.

Hudler is small. Nobody is disputing that. Hudler isn't a fast skater, but he's not slow; probably average and definitely faster than he used to be. And he's never been lazy. If you think Brunnstrom is a better player than Hudler, you're nuts.

The color of an object is defined by the light that reflects off the surface. So what appears red to one person may appear blue to another, depending on the circumstances and the perspective. For example, a during a half moon, part of the moon is a bright silver-gray and part of the moon is a very dark gray, almost black. About a month later, it will be the reverse. The bright side will be dark and the dark side light. The color has not changed at all, but the circumstances have.

I never said Hudler made as much of an impact as Thomas. You're putting words in my mouth. My point was that Hudler absolutely has the skill and ability to score 70-80 points in the right circumstances and has displayed this before at the NHL level. Picking Hudler to score 80 points at some point in the future is much shorter odds than, in 2005, picking Tim Thomas to win two of the next six Vezina trophies.

When? When he scored in the one game he played with Datsyuk/Cleary? Or when he scored 3 points in 4 games with Flip and Franzen? How about last year when he scored 14 points in 11 games with Datsyuk/Cleary? Or the month before that, played mostly with Flip, when he scored 12 points in 14 games? That's about the extent of his "chance" at being a top-six forward at any point in his career.

Thomas being a goalie makes it an irrelevant example that, as of 2005, people didn't think he was going to ever be a factor in the NHL? I have to ask a serious question. Are you actively seeking out my posts in threads around LGW and simply acting as if you can't understand what is being said? Because that is what it seems like.

Double-shift Franzen, put out offensively clueless Stuart, and no Homer or Hudler? Kindl and Ericsson are both better choices than Stuart, and if Homer is in the lineup it's for PP; his 5-on-5 play is mediocre whether he's with Dats or Emmerton. How about one of these: Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom/Lidstrom/White Franzen/Filppula/Cleary/Kronwall/Hudler The following use Lidstrom/White and Kronwall/Kindl on defense: Franzen/Datsyuk/Holmstrom Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom Franzen/Hudler/Cleary Hudler/Datsyuk/Holmstrom Franzen/Zetterberg/Cleary Cleary/Datsyuk/Hudler Franzen/Zetterberg/Holmstrom If Cleary continues not producing, pull him out and stick Filppula in one of the last four combos. Are you serious? "Jiri Hudler is one of the best offensive players on the team, and has great chemistry with Datsyuk. So we're going to put Abdelkader on Datsyuk's line." Helm's speed is dangerous, but he doesn't have the hands to finish. Abdelkader is just painful to watch offensively. Brunnstrom needs to earn a spot in the top 12 before we talk about someone having to earn his spot. Kindl has outplayed Ericsson, and Smith did get a legitimate shot to beat out Kindl in the preseason and wasn't even close.

Glad to see you acknowledge Hudler is capable of 70+, but I was referring to Franzen.

You're saying the fact that Kopecky scored 40+ points while playing solid, physical, two way hockey is irrelevant? Even though Filppula's career high is 40? Love it. Homer.

Because the solution to all of our scoring problems is to add defensively skilled PK forwards. Helm, Miller, Abdelkader, Emmerton, Cleary, Eaves, Filppula, Dats, and Z just can't cut it defensively. 2008-09 Jiri Hudler 26g-31a-57pt. His season last year wouldn't be considered a disappointment if not for his 2009 season. Had his 2008-09 season been similar to his previous two seasons, last year would have been "It's regular Hudler, no bigs." and people would be fine with it. Even though he'd probably have made a similar amount. This is a relevant comparison; go ahead and look up how many forwards posted 70 points last year. About 30. The fact that Thomas is a goalie doesn't make the "he's not in the NHL, he's not an elite player" comparison invalid. The chances of Nyquist popping into the NHL and posting 70 points are so incredibly slim it's ridiculous. Is he better offensively than Franzen? Tavares? Nash? Briere? Heatley? Kovalchuk? These are some of the guys who played a full season and didn't reach the 70 point mark. It's a ridiculous suggestion, just like saying in 2005 that Thomas would win two Vezinas and a Smythe in the span of three years. Joey MacDonald has had a much better NHL career than Thomas had through 2005 - Thomas was 32 and had played 4 games at the start of the season. His career GAA and save pct. were comparable to MacDonald's current levels. MacDonald is 31, and has played 83 games. MacDonald only played one ECHL game, and has otherwise been AHL or NHL. Better than Thomas was at this age. Will he win the Vezina in four years? I didn't say Nyquist will never hit 70 points. I said he wouldn't do it if he were inserted into the lineup right now. There are only four players on the current roster I think are/will be capable of that level over a full season, and one of them I think is too lazy and fragile to actually sustain that kind of play over a full season, so his chances of doing it are basically nil.