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LMAO@Had to Upgrade More like "were offered Hasek for a song, and had the choice of taking the deal or watching the Blues get him" The Wings were more than happy with Ozzie. So happy in fact that they turned down a straight Ozzie-for-Blake deal just a few months earlier. Hasek signed a 3-year deal. Osgood had two years remaining. Hasek retired after the season, and the Wings signed Joseph to a 3 year deal with a conditional 4th. Osgood signed a low-budget contract extension after he was traded to St. Louis. The Wings have always liked Osgood. Osgood has personally put himself in a POSITION to return to Detroit. It was not by coincidence that the same season the Wings were again looking for a goaltender, Osgood was available. Holland has known Osgood for 16 years. He scouted him for 2 solid years before he was drafted. Holland lived in the same town as Osgood played in. Hall of Famer Billy Smith once called Osgood "the most technically sound goaltender I've ever seen." Osgood was playing behind a mediocre Islanders defense at the time. No 'incredible Detroit team making him look good.' And in fact, it's arrogant to say that he only did well because of the team. Name me a few goalies who have put up better career numbers that have not been on great teams for a good stretch of their career? Hasek is the only recent goalie with better career numbers who was not playing on great teams. and his teams only suffered from a lack of offense-the Buffalo defense was stellar.

How about Datsyuk for Smyth, Torres, and a 1st?

Imagine if we got Cooke AND Tucker? Maltby, Draper, Tucker, Cooke, Chelios, Holmstrom, Franzen, Rivers, Lilja, Fischer, Kronwall, put Manlow in....might not be the most high scoring team, but one heck of a team to play against.

I like it,but where's Williams? getting first-line ice time in Grand Rapids.

You forgot Kent McDonell..I think he has the edge over MacLean..he's grittier. I don't think McDonnell is bring looked at as anything more than a potential 'emergency' player. He's a former Wings pick who never amounted to anything in our system.

Edmonton loves small fast players like Datsyuk, and Dats would be PERFECT with Dvorak and the other guys they have. If we have to trade Datsyuk, this is a deal I definitely would not mind, because Smyth is asking for 3m, which is about what he's worth. Looking at the Wings' cap number and Shanahan's contract, he'd probably take 2.5-2.75 so the team could keep Zetterberg as well. Especially since it would give him a MUCH better shot at a Cup. All that said...I don't see the deal happening. Imagine if you would though.... Smyth/Zetterberg/Shanahan Holmstrom/Lang/Yzerman Maltby/Draper/Manlow MacLean/Franzen/Mowers Fischer/Lidstrom Schneider/Kronwall Lilja/Chelios That's a pretty strong lineup. Especially with a versatile, all-around guy like Rivers to plug any hole in the roster when you want to rest someone.

Helmer was a one-year deal for last year I believe. I am pretty sure Manlow is sticking around, and I think he'll have a decent shot at making the Red Wings. Before signing with the Wings, he bounced around with the Isles and Bruins, playing a handful of NHL games and doing pretty well. Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Shanahan, Holmstrom, Lang, Yzerman, Maltby, Draper are the guys who are going to "automatically" make the team at forward. Lidstrom, Schneider, Fischer, Kronwall, Chelios, Lilja have six set spots on defense. Osgood and Legace already have goaltending completely set. So that's 16 taken spots of a 21-22 man roster. We need another defenseman, and the rest of the five-six spots will be filled with forwards. Guys who will compete for the one spot on defense: Rivers, Delmore Guys who will compete for up to five forward spots: Franzen, Rivers, Williams, Mowers, MacLean, Manlow, Bootland Rivers can play both forward and defense, so he'll likely be on the roster as he's a solid all-around player, he's reliable, and he's cheap. So that means we have "9" forwards and "7" defensemen, totalling 15 skaters. 2 goalies brings it to a total of 17, and we'll add four more players. Franzen and Mowers are the best available forwards, so they're in. 17 skaters, 2 goalies. Williams, MacLean, Manlow, and Bootland are competing for it at forward, and Delmore might get in at defense. With 10 forwards plus Rivers, we'll add two more. MacLean had a strong season in the minors offensively in 03-04 and did well in Finland, and he's a sound defensive forward and a good skater. He gets a spot. Bootland is the worst skater of the four and needs to work on his puckhandling and defense. He'll go to the minors. So 11 forwards plus Rivers, and 6 defensemen plus Rivers. If it's a 21-player roster, we add one more forward. Williams has shown he has the skills to play at the NHL level. But looking at it right now (and I change my mind on the last couple forwards every three minutes) I think playing this year in Grand Rapids might be the best course to take with Williams, as he has the raw talent but needs to polish it, and needs to improve his defensive game. He could become an EXCELLENT all-around player in the future, but he won't do it playing on Detroit's fourth line. That leaves Eric Manlow. He has proven he has two-way skills at the NHL level, he's got grit and has size. He could probably play on any of Detroit's lines without a problem. He plays a very in-your-face style and could be a good replacement for McCarty on the Grind Line. And if budget allows, Delmore can stay up on the roster, which means guys like Yzerman, Shanahan, Chelios can get more rest because we have that extra spare.

The only way Steen would come to Detroit for Zetterberg: To Toronto: Zetterberg To Detroit: Kaberle Stajan Coliacovo Sundin Steen Toronto pays half of Sundin's salary/picks up half his cap number.

Not Schneider...Vancouver can't handle him if they can't handle Cooke. But a guy they can handle? Jamie Rivers. We could deal Rivers for him and put Cooke on the Grind Line where I have Rivers listed.

Montoya was a three-year starter at UM, he was going to be a fourth-year starter had he stuck around. And Montoya was PHENOMENAL with team USA, he led them to Gold.

Here's how that deal would break down fairest D Meech--C Endicott C Hudler--C Beech C Datsyuk--D Tarnstrom+W Morozov Maybe if you threw the pick to the other side of the deal (lining it up with Beech against Hudler), it might be a fair trade.

Datsyuk is better at handling the puck. Zetterberg is a good or better at everything else. There is no debate.

Holland and his scouting staff (note: Holland has been part of/the king of the scouting staff for a while) as well as Ilitch's money being able to KEEP the players that the Wings have picked up, and those players the Wings have acquired in the draft and via trade or free agency have been very loyal to the team and willing to stay for the most part (see Yzerman, Larionov, Osgood, etc.)

It will be like 97. Both goalies will play a decent number of games if Legace stays, but only one will play the playoffs (Ozzie) and he'll freakin tear if up and the Wings will win the Cup.

The thing about Notre Dame vs Michigan? Michigan usually has a .500+ season Notre Dame will tank their season if they lose, if they win they'll challenge for the national title. ND's season seems to ride ENTIRELY on the outcome of that game, while to Michigan, although it is important, they can bounce back just fine.

Maybe we should trade Datsyuk for one of them!!! Ok, negotiations aren't going well. Compare Pittsburgh's cap situation to ours. Do you really think they would not match an offer we could afford to make? And is there really an offer we could afford to make that wouldn't cost us Zetterberg and/or Datsyuk?

I would make the deal in a fantasy sim league but not in real life. Now if I could swap Schneider in there instead of Lidstrom? That would be a no-brainder.

It's because a lot of teams want him, not because Kenan hates him. Honestly...look at talented young defensemen who blossomed into very good players when coached by Keenan. Keenan is the best coach Jay-B could have. Brad McCrimmon Kjell Samuelsson Dave Manson Bryan Marchment Sergei Zubov Chris Pronger Mattias Ohlund Adrian Aucoin This track record, as well as helping along the development of both less talented younger defensemen and improving great defensemen (Chelios became far better under Keenan than he ever had been in Montreal) Keenan coaching Florida is a very good thing considering they have talented youngsters on the blue in Filip Novak, Branislav Mezei, Mike Van Ryn, Jay Bouwmeester as well as top defensive prospect Lukas Krajicek, who is compared in style and skill to 'Nick Lidstrom, but more willing to occasionally drop the gloves' This team could get real scary not too far down the line with that kind of talent stockpiled and as young a roster as they have.

Keenan has built Cup contender and Cup winners. He's done it by grooming talented young players into stars and by bringing in the right mix of veterans around them, and his formula has worked everywhere to build a contender (except Vancouver, where he wasn't given time) Also worth noting is that Keenan likes to have a starting goaltender who can be counted on for a lot of quality games (See Fuhr in 96...started more than 70 games straight from the start of the year for Keenan) Cloutier brings neither the ability to be counted on nor the ability to play consistent at all, let alone over a large number of starts. Jovanovski is a very good defenseman. But he does not improve on Bouwmeester in the defensive end, which is where Florida needs help. Bouwmeester is also much younger and has much greater potential as an offensive player, and is a better skater. To top it off, Florida has Mike Van Ryn, who is a solid offensive defenseman whose defensive game is not a liability. And the last piece of the deal, Ryan Kesler? Vancouver loves him, but he would be well dow the list of Florida's talented center prospects. Steve Weiss, Nathan Horton, Rostislav Olesz, Kamil Kreps, Petr Taticek, Greg Jacina, Vaclav Nedorost are all centers 23 or younger (mostly prospects) who are ranked by scouting services as future second liners to future stars, assuming they haven't already reached that rank. According to hockeysfuture.com, Kesler is a 6.5A and the best center prospect in the Canucks system. 6.5A means he is virtually guaranteed (A ranking) to reach his potential as one of the better third line centers in the NHL (6=third line, 7=second line). So Florida trades a world class 26 year old goaltender for a 29 year old journeyman, they deal a top notch prospect defenseman for a second tier offensive defenseman who is poor defensively, and they also get a third-line center prospect in the deal? Or another way of looking at it; Separate it into two deals. Major player for major player, and the rest for the rest. Florida trades world class goaltender for second tier one-dimensional defenseman. Florida trades top prospect defenseman and potential Norris winner for journeyman goaltender and potential future depth forward. Somehow, I don't think Florida would do that deal. Now if it were Mezei and Jani Hurme instead of Bouwmeester and Luongo? Then they might do it, and it would probably be closer to a fair deal. Maybe a deal like this: Vancouver gets: Mezei Hurme Florida gets: Cloutier (RFA) Jovanovski Kesler stays at home without Bouwmeester in the deal.

There is no more waiver draft. Only way we can lose Macdonald is by normal waivers, which he would have to clear to go to the minors. However, Detroit has been trying to sign Howard to play in the minors. If Detroit signs Howard, Macdonald is probably done with Detroit. Legace is going to be in Red and White at leats for a couple more months, and Howard would have the job in Grand Rapids. Unless Holland sits Macdonald at the NHL level, which would only fuel trade speculation. Macdonald should be traded if they are hanging on to Legace....better than losing him for nothing. You are correct, there is no more waiver draft, I was not thinking clearly. I just meant he would have to clear waivers. I however would rather have a goalie in the system that actually has a chance to be the starter. Manny will never be the starter & I can't imagine paying your backup more than your starter. What makes you think Macdonald has a shot? He had a good year last year in the minors, he's young still. Unlike Manny he has not had 12 seasons in the NHL as a backup. I'm not saying he is going to start this season, but if he is in the Wings future it would be nice for him to learn as the backup at the NHL level. Osgood will start this year...possibly next year as well. Macdonald would be going against Howard and Liv for the job if both Ozzie and Legace were gone. Even with potentially 20 NHL games under his career, he would still not have nearly the length of experience as a starter that Liv and Howard have.

There is no more waiver draft. Only way we can lose Macdonald is by normal waivers, which he would have to clear to go to the minors. However, Detroit has been trying to sign Howard to play in the minors. If Detroit signs Howard, Macdonald is probably done with Detroit. Legace is going to be in Red and White at leats for a couple more months, and Howard would have the job in Grand Rapids. Unless Holland sits Macdonald at the NHL level, which would only fuel trade speculation. Macdonald should be traded if they are hanging on to Legace....better than losing him for nothing. You are correct, there is no more waiver draft, I was not thinking clearly. I just meant he would have to clear waivers. I however would rather have a goalie in the system that actually has a chance to be the starter. Manny will never be the starter & I can't imagine paying your backup more than your starter. What makes you think Macdonald has a shot?

There is no more waiver draft. Only way we can lose Macdonald is by normal waivers, which he would have to clear to go to the minors. However, Detroit has been trying to sign Howard to play in the minors. If Detroit signs Howard, Macdonald is probably done with Detroit. Legace is going to be in Red and White at leats for a couple more months, and Howard would have the job in Grand Rapids. Unless Holland sits Macdonald at the NHL level, which would only fuel trade speculation. Macdonald should be traded if they are hanging on to Legace....better than losing him for nothing.

They said that Liv had a hard time because his team refused to pick up NHLers. Wonder if Boucher left a bad taste in their mouths. Any news on the status of Howard's contract? Nothing I've been able to find. Although the Liv/NHLers thing is accurate... The list of NHLers to play for HV 71 last season: Eriksson 32 games Malhotra 20 games Cheechoo 20 games McCabe 10 games Boucher 4 games Considering that most other teams had NHL stars for the full season, it's hard to disagree with that assessment.

The rumor includes both Wallaces and draft picks...not worth it. If we could get Garnett for just Sheed and the picks, I'd do it.

That is the problem. He shoulda came over last year to continue his development. He had nothing left to accomplish, but didn't venture over here. As Barnes said, he'll be 25 in December and has no N.American hockey experience. If he doesn't come over now, he'll be pretty close to 30 before he can crack the line-up, if Howard lets him. Personally I would love to see him come over, from what I understand he's quite a character, but I doubt we'll ever find out. This I agree with. I guess what gets me is posters here knockin on Liv for being a flop when its really not him at all, its management. He easily should have been over in the AHL by now and your right if hes not here by 2006 or 2007 he will be done. Be done with the wings and instead signed and properly handled by another team. It was Liv's choice to stay in Sweden after his team, HV 71, won the SEL championship. If he'd signed, he may have played well enough in the AHL last season to get considered as Detroit's backup this season. Instead, he stayed in Sweden, didn't play well, and now he will probably be in the NHL no sooner than 2007, if he ever comes over at all. Detroit has reportedly asked Liv to stay in Sweden this year even though Liv would rather come over because of the Brian Boucher incident last season. Speaking of the Boucher thing; Liv's pre-Boucher stats 10 games, 3.62 GAA, .878 sv pct. Liv's post-Boucher stats 30 games, 2.75 GAA, .898 sv pct. Boucher's stats 4 games, 3.32 GAA, .883 sv pct.