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Yeah, that's a toughie. Howard can't assume the puck is coming at 10 mph. He also shouldn't be assuming that it's coming at 100 mph. And what if Setoguchi doesn't even shoot? Howard wouldn't have been able to get back across the crease if Setoguchi passes back across the ice; it's an open net shot. All Howard had to do was plant his damn skate; he can cover the part of his pad that comes off the ice with the stick that is otherwise in front of his body serving him no purpose. And voila! He stops the shot. Knowing not to fling yourself out of your crease is basic goaltending. While he has been impressive for most of the playoff run, he has steadily declined as the pressure increased. Goalies like Hasek and Osgood played their best in high pressure situations. As for Boyle's goal; my main complaint about Howard on that play is that he dropped to the ice when Wellwood sent the puck across to Boyle, and basically crab-walked over to try and square up to Boyle. Furthering that, Howard dove forward when trying to make the save, offering up more open net. When he swiped his glove at the puck, the entire top half of the net was available. Howard didn't try to "block" the shot, he tried to "grab" the shot. He didn't try to put his body in front of it, or simply get his glove in the path; he swiped at it. Take away one of those decisions, Howard probably stops that puck. Take away all three, and Howard definitely stops it. Hudler is the popular scapegoat around here, I won't deny that. And his first 30 games of the regular season were not spectacular by any stretch. But the fact remains that since Christmas, even if you remove the time Hudler played with Datsyuk, Hudler has outperformed Franzen. And if you look at the stretch Hudler played with Dats, it's hard to argue who has better chemistry WITH Datsyuk. Hudler has outperformed Franzen in the playoffs, and everyone was giving Franzen plenty of leeway in the regular season because "he'll be great in the playoffs." Well he's not. Hudler's been on of the team's top forwards. Babcock has said so. Ken and Mickey have said so. You have always hated him because he's small and European. Good for you. As for Filppula... wasn't it just a few months ago I was classified as a "Filppula hater" by this forum? I lose track of these things, outside of those like yourself who simply can't acknowledge positives about a player.

I thought Flip and Huds looked pretty good out there tonight at both ends of the ice. Franzen's defensive laziness directly led to the OT goal. Howard's poor positioning was the cause of another goal; the "broken stick goal" that went on the far side. Had Howard managed to not slide five feet past where he should have been, that doesn't go in. The first goal was a result of Brad Stuart chasing after the puck in the corner as it went to a Shark player Niklas Kronwall was already covering. Critical mistake on the PK, and one that led to a goal. On Boyle's goal, Helm is caught standing around watching four Red Wings battle three Sharks deep in the Wings zone. Boyle slips in behind Helm and takes a feed, beating a desperately sprawling Howard. Howard is also to blame, as he basically resorted to the technique of "flail wildly and hope I stop it" on that goal, when he could normally have stopped it.

For those of you comparing player to player... It shouldn't be based on points or salary. It should be based on the most obvious determination of where a player falls in his team's structure. Even strength average ice time. Otherwise you're comparing Ed Jovanovski and his $6.5m salary as Phoenix's top defenseman, when in reality he is their #6.

And we'd be up 2-0 in shutouts if he knew them like the palm of his hand.

Franzen's "scoring chance" where he shot the puck into Niemi's logo when the puck suddenly "popped free onto his stick" as it was called? Yeah, it popped free right from Jiri Hudler passing it to him with his stick between the Shark defender's legs. But yeah, Franzen was the one generating the offensive play.

He was suspended by the Isles in January. He was not allowed to practice with the team. That's three months of nothing but personal workouts. What did you expect?

The first priorities in the offseason are: Keep Lidstrom, and sign another defenseman, preferably Joni Pitkanen or Christian Ehrhoff. Yes, Shea Weber would be great... but I don't see the Wings giving up the picks. And even if they were willing to, I would expect Nashville to match anyway. If he could be had via trade, it would definitely involve Kronwall and a 1st (maybe more picks than that), plus probably a forward (most likely Filppula or Hudler) and possibly a good prospect or two. If Lidstrom retires, sign another defenseman to fill his spot. Holland likely plans on keeping Ericsson, so the new defenseman would be taking Salei's roster spot. Secure backup goaltending. Osgood intends to come back, so if he is healthy and able expect that. Likely Holland will also sign a veteran who is capable of playing in the NHL and will sign at or close to minimum. If Osgood can't come back, Holland will sign someone else for a similar salary level. No, it won't be Larsson, and no, it won't be Conklin. Fill out forward corps. Modano, Draper, Eaves, and Miller are UFAs. Emmerton and Mursak are signed and cannot go to Grand Rapids next year without being waived; neither would pass. Modano will almost certainly be gone, given that he's been relegated to 14th forward and has realized that he didn't really have the desire to play another season. Draper is likely to retire. Eaves and Miller are both good PK guys, but ultimately only one needs to return. Helm/Dats/Z/Abby/Flip/Cleary all play PK... if Huds keeps improving defensively and physically he might see time there also. This leaves one roster spot and probably around $4m-$5m in cap space. This could tack on a solid second line forward or a good defenseman. Perhaps instead of Lidstrom/Pitkanen/Ericsson the Wings can go Lidstrom/Pitkanen/Ehrhoff with that kind of cap space change? Lidstrom/Ehrhoff/Kronwall/Pitkanen/Rafalski/Stuart is a downright scary top-six. Kindl stays on as the seventh guy. Then you keep a versatile guy like Meech at minimum wage for the 23rd spot, or just run with 22. Huds/Dats/Cleary Franzen/Z/Holmstrom Bertuzzi/Filppula/Eaves Abdelkader/Helm/Mursak Emmerton Lidstrom/Rafalski Kronwall/Stuart Ehrhoff/Pitkanen Kindl Howard Osgood After next year, Kronner, Raffi, and Stuart all go UFA. Lidstrom also, if he stays after this season. Rafalski will probably retire, and likely Lidstrom if he is still around at that point. Kronwall will probably be retained, and Stuart is questionable depending on what other defensemen are on the team, what's going on with Ericsson/Kindl/Smith/etc. So over the next two to three seasons we're seeing a complete turnover defensively.

Possibly the worst line combo I've seen posted all season. All three of these guys have had a noticeable lack of chemistry playing with the others; this is mainly because neither Modano nor Holmstrom are really puck-possession players. Hudler is also the best defensive forward on the line, so the line isn't exactly a shut-down unit. That's why neither work with Hudler, whose biggest strength is puck control. Homer and Modano don't work well together because Modano is best on the rush, and gets sort of lost in extended puck control situations, while Homer is pretty much ineffective unless his teammates can set up in the zone and get shots on net. What exactly has Hudler done that he doesn't deserve to be in the lineup? Hudler has been one of the team's best forwards all playoffs. He's been strong offensively, solid defensively, good physically. He's been better than just about every forward on the team (including Franzen, whose playoff performance - or lack thereof - is somehow immune to criticism), and in the only game he didn't play well he still played as well or better than Franzen, who you're rewarding with first line time for his ineffectiveness. Hudler has outplayed just about every other Wings forward all playoff. He had one game where he was not up to par. If you're going to scratch him, you should be scratching most of the team. Hudler was playing great and has been one of the team's top forwards since Christmas. Hudler scored 4-10-14 in 11 games with Datsyuk. Hudler scored 5-12-17 in 32 games after Christmas. Franzen scored 13-12-25 in 33 regulation games after Christmas, not including the stretch where Hudler played with Datsyuk. Big difference? Thing is, Franzen was playing with Datsyuk for the entire stretch after Hudler was taken off Dats' line, and Z before that. So what happens if you take Franzen's 4 assists in 9 games while Huds was with Datsyuk and stretch that to 32 games, while stretching Huds' 11 games to 33 games? The answer is, Hudler has 17-42-59 in 65 while Franzen has 13-26-39 in 65. Oh my. And yes, I realize that I am leaving Hudler's 30-game slump at the beginning of the season out of the calculation. But if that's a beef of yours, perhaps I should base Franzen's goal numbers on his last 27 games of the season? 2 goals from our "elite" sniper? Both Hudler and Darren Helm each scored 6 goals in that span. As for lines, ultimately the lines should be put together as such: Huds/Dats/Cleary: The best line we've had all season; all three were on 100-point pace - it was only broken up to get Franzen's ass off the couch. Didn't even work. Modano/Z/Bertuzzi: Modano's speed works to offset Z working back in from his injury, and provides a good shot from the wing. Bertuzzi provides size and strength. Franzen/Filppula/Holmstrom: Franzen and Flip have worked in the past, this combo is similar to BFF except Holmstrom swaps in for Bertuzzi. Draper/Helm/Eaves: Win. If Modo/Z/Bert isn't working out, either swap out the wingers on the second and third lines, or switch Flip/Modo and Bert/Homer.

Did he injure his ankle in February? Franzen scored 5 goals on February 2nd. Since then he has scored 4-13-17 in 34 games, regular season and playoff combined. By comparison, Jiri Hudler scored 7-15-22 in 35 games, regular season and playoff combined. Pavel Datsyuk has scored 13-15-28 in 29 games. Dan Cleary has scored 11-12-23 in 38 games. Face it. Franzen right now is simply not what he has been during previous runs. It's not the ankle.

Flip and Huds have been, alongside Dats and Helm, the team's top four forwards this playoff run. Where's Franzen in your list?

Which means no Modano, as Huds has been on of the team's best forwards all playoff.

The city ordinance specifically states no throwing of objects in the spectator area or onto the playing surface at an athletic contest. Regardless of what JLA decides, the city law still supersedes it.

He had a couple of good moments. He also made some massive errors; his first goal only made up for completely blowing coverage that directly led to a goal. He scored 2 in 3 last series, but was maybe the team's 6th or 7th best forward. And so far against the Sharks he's looked even worse. He hasn't shown the ability to play defense in years, and his scoring is wildly inconsistent if he's not in "playoff beast" mode; which he is not right now.

I would rather Helm than Miller on the third line because it allows for Modano on the wing, where he is better suited anyway. It also makes that a quick, defensively capable third line that has scoring punch. Miller/Draper/Eaves is still a solid fourth line; slip Abby in for any of them if you like and it still works out well - hopefully he'll do better than tonight.

He supposedly did... I don't recall actually seeing him out there though. Slip Bert into Franzen's spot, bring Helm up to the third line with Mo and Cleary, and then swap in Drapes for Abby.

Given last game's performance, I might sit Franzen for Modano. He's been bad this year, but he can't be any worse than Mule was.

Z wasn't himself (expected), Dats was good, Helm, Flip and Huds each played well but not up to their normal level. Franzen was a waste of ice time; he didn't get a single shot on net and wasn't even really a threat. That will have to change. I'm not sure whether I would change the top two lines; switching Huds and Z might help, but other than that it largely comes down to Huds not putting it away, Flip not shooting, and Franzen not showing up. A good argument could be made to swap Abby and Helm; possibly even sit Abby and put Draper on the fourth line. I'd say at least give it another game though, maybe try Cleary/Helm/Bert out in practice. Or another option would be rolling out Z/Dats/Bert, Huds/Flip/Franzen, Cleary/Helm/Eaves, and Miller/Draper/Holmstrom. The listed fourth line is more of a "substitutes" list than anything. Homer would work in for Bert, Huds, and Franzen; Miller would PK and work in for Cleary/Eaves, and Draper would PK and work in for anyone on the third line.

Because Lidstrom doesn't know when he's going to retire, and Holland doesn't want to jack up the cap with a 4-year, $5m-per deal?

I dunno LW, Helm was great in the first round. But Filppula is playing with Franzen and HUDLER and I think HUDLER will come out and make a difference offensively as HUDLER is known to do. I think HUDLER will be quite effective with Babs having that HUDLER/Filppula/Franzen line and HUDLER will create a huge problem for the Sharks.

He makes John Keating look like John D. Rockefeller.

I have a problem with giving Lidstrom a raise; it sticks us in a situation where the rest of the team may not be as good. This is important because of many reasons. Lidstrom and Rafalski will both be retiring soon, and the rest of the team primarily consists of players who would be sticking around. If Lidstrom taking a pay cut allows for us to get a much better player on the roster, potentially locking down a (preferably younger) top-pairing defenseman given that Rafalski, Kronwall, and Stuart all turn UFA after next season, as would Lidstrom if he returns. Next offseason will showcase Holland's true abilities as a GM, even if Lids is returning for 2012-13. I would take a 2 year deal for $4.8m for Lidstrom if it were a cap hit of $2.4m each year. Because I'm willing to risk eating that hit two years from now to guarantee his presence on the roster for next season.

So if I understood correctly... Zdeno Chara was around for the American Revolution?

I would put Boucher, Julien, and Boudreau as my top three.

Wings' second pairing in 2019-20: Lidstrom/Lidstrom?

Over the past few weeks, Hudler's defense has far outshined anything Franzen has attempted. Of course, that is contingent on Franzen actually attempting to play defense, which as we all know is not a guarantee.