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It only took Osgood about 30 more games than Brodeur to hit 400; he did it faster than everyone but Marty. Osgood's big issue was that he never had the regular 65-70 game seasons that guys like Brodeur and Roy did. This limited his win totals over his career because he couldn't win games he didn't play. Brodeur has played approximately 50% more games than Osgood since their rookie season of 1993-94. So if you add on the 50% using that simple math, Ozzie has 600 wins in 1113 games compared to Brodeur's 607 in 1103. It's simply a matter of Ozzie not playing as many games per season; his performance and winning percentage was/is more than enough to win that number of games. There are two individual marks Ozzie likely cares about more than any others. If he gets 36 more wins, that's win 352 as a Wing and has passed Sawchuk's Detroit record of 351. Another 12 past that and he has 448 career wins, one more than Sawchuk's 447 career wins. If Osgood plays a reasonable amount of games the rest of this season, and then as a backup next year, he hits or gets close to that first mark. Playing out through 2012-13 should put him over 447 if he gets a reasonable number of games. If he wins 4 of every 9, to match his record this season, he would need to play 72 games in a span of 200, which is equivalent to about 25-30 games over the course of a season.

Modano, Draper, Eaves, Miller, Lidstrom, Salei, Ericsson, Howard, and Osgood are the UFAs. That's $14.67m in cap space being opened up from four forwards, three defensemen, and two goalies out of a 14-7-2 roster. 10-4-2 signed for next year from the current roster, not including prospects/minor leaguers. Modano won't be back. Given the hand injury and his age, his chances of being back are about equal to the chances of Joey MacDonald winning the starting job next year. Draper will probably also be retiring. Eaves will most likely be back, given his play at both ends. Holland is not going to want to lose him. Miller is a good PK specialist with OK offensive talents. He's a good grinder and fits well on the fourth line with Helm. Lidstrom is having one of his better seasons, so I don't see him leaving this year; maybe after next season. Salei has been inconsistent, having some terrible games and some good games. He likely won't be back. Ericsson has played well and the team will do everything to keep him; same for Howard. Osgood is very likely to come back unless his second half turns dramatically worse than his first half. So figure that two forwards and one defenseman are gone, and a total of 13m is spent on retaining the returnees. This leaves a spot for a 7th defenseman, a 13rd forward, and another spare skater. So a couple ways the lines could work out as are: Zetterberg/Datsyuk/Holmstrom Franzen/Filppula/Hudler Bertuzzi/Abdelkader/Cleary Miller/Helm/Eaves Hudler/Zetterberg/Cleary Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Eaves Franzen/Filppula/Bertuzzi Abdelkader/Helm/Miller

And no bat.

Shots on goal is not always a perfect statistic because of blocked shots. If Lidstrom takes an unscreened shot from the point, it will probably be stopped, right? What if that shot is blocked instead? The same result, but the goalie's stats aren't affected. Example: If the Wings take 40 shots against LA with no blocked shots, and score 4 goals, then Quick's sv% is .900, right? But what if some of those 40 are blocked? Now we only have, say, 33 shots on goal. The high quality chances were still there, so the goals still happened; blind shots from the point are unlikely to get through and go in. So now Quick's sv% is .879, simply because his team performed better on defense. It's not simply a matter of "this guy stops a higher percentage of shots, so he's better" because the stat does not account for whether it was a one-timer from the low slot or a puck flipped on net from outside the blue line.

For some reason I was counting Hasek as already inducted. I was counting Roy, Hasek, Belfour, Brodeur, and Osgood as the five.

There are 35 goalies in the Hall. 16 of them are pre-Original 6 goalies. That leaves 19 goalies over a span of about 55 years. Osgood is one of the five best goalies of his era; two are already in, another just became eligible, and the last is still playing. There are other goaltenders who were very good who can make arguments for the Hall who have not been inducted, such as Tom Barrasso, Andy Moog, and John Vanbiesbrouck, but Osgood has a higher claim to the Hall than any of them.

The lines I had slated, if I recall correctly, were: Bertuzzi/Zetterberg/Cleary Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Eaves Franzen/Filppula/Hudler Abdelkader/Helm/Miller I said overall player. I was referring to those players playing on fourth lines, not with regard to the "fourth line" style of play. Arguing that Asham is a better overall player than Eaves is like saying Manny Legace is on track for the Vezina. Eaves is a developed player who has all of the skills to play on the second line. He has been putting them to use this season. Just because he's not on the second line due to the Wings' excessive depth does not mean he is not second-line capable.

He's secretly calling out the Wings' forwards for not producing more.

He was the best in 1995-96. And through the 90s he was always among the best. Osgood is not an average goalie. Manny Legace, Manny Fernandez, and Dwayne Roloson are/were average goalies.

Pronovost was a great defenseman, but he won't be retired. For his time there were many better defensemen, something that can't be said of any of the guys I listed. He never had a season where he could be argued legitimately as the best at his position; his best was two First-Team selections behind Doug Harvey.

He was on pace for 21 goals playing third/fourth line. After the trick, he's on pace for nearly 30. He might not hit those kind of numbers, but he is most likely the best overall player in the league who plays fourth line on a healthy roster. I wonder if anyone still would be against my pre-Modano suggestion of Eaves with Dats and Homer, assuming the twins were split...

Kelly's the only one who could be argued seriously ahead of Ozzy. And he should have been up there a long time ago. The numbers when Ozzy retires should read like this: 1 - Terry Sawchuk 4 - Red Kelly 5 - Nicklas Lidstrom 6 - Larry Aurie 7 - Ted Lindsay 9 - Gordie Howe 10 - Alex Delvecchio 12 - Sid Abel 19 - Steve Yzerman 30 - Chris Osgood Fedorov definitely deserves the honor as well given that he was an elite forward for ten years as a Wing, but it will never happen.

Martin Brodeur, Ed Belfour and Curtis Joseph are the other three among the top ten not in the HHOF. Brodeur is still playing, Joseph is not eligible until after next season, and Belfour was only eligible for the first time this past summer. Hardly a worthwhile argument. Osgood is one of the five best goaltenders of an era known for its low scoring. His first losing season in the NHL was at age 37 in his 16th season, one in which he played through both illness and injury. Osgood is a winner, and a big game goalie. His best performances have come when it counts the most, and he is one of the most accomplished playoff netminders of all-time. To argue that he doesn't deserve the Hall is just silly. Especially after he passes Fuhr and Hall on the wins list.

Howard has scored 20 goals?

Maybe we should try him on Datsyuk's wing with Holmstrom on the other side... Just saying...

Only 20 goalies have ever played in the NHL, right?

Hmm... Without Raf or Z Franzen/Filppula/Holmstrom Bertuzzi/Hudler/Eaves Abdelkader/Helm/Miller Draper/Mursak With Raf Franzen/Filppula/Holmstrom Bertuzzi/Hudler/Eaves Abdelkader/Helm/Ericsson Miller/Draper/Mursak

Looks like Hudler is doing the scoring.

I said he could go on a tear. I didn't say he was on a tear; he scored two points last game and has been one of the team's top forwards the past three, which is the production level we were expecting from him. Whatever you say Crymson. I'm sure you're more aware of my motivations than I am. If you're not playing well, that won't change just by playing on the power play in the same game. Some games a player will produce offense like we would expect from Pavel Datsyuk, and sometimes like Aaron Downey. Aaron Downey isn't going to bring s***ty offense at 5-on-5 and score bunches on the PP, so why would a player bringing his offensive level do so? And the same goes for Datsyuk. And you forgot to congratulate Osgood on the Vezina and the Hart.

It's a tiring argument. But realize this. Before the team acquired Hasek, Osgood was one of the team's 3-4 best players every season from his sophomore season on. His number should be hung up high in the rafters.

Earlier in the season I ignored this thread. Why? For one simple reason. You don't go outside in a blizzard. If I come in here and make a post about Hudler that is positive, or even neutral, a month ago? I would have seen everyone in the post come railing on me. I used to have the time to deal with that kind of s***. Now I don't. So when I know it will happen beforehand, I simply ignore it. And he has had more than one GOOD game in a row.

It's a shame you're just sitting there flapping your..well, fingers about Downey. My point was that I had been saying all along if Hudler was given top six time the result would be good production. I was responded to with a post about Shawn Thornton's 7 goals, so I was saying how I considered 1 goal and 1 assist good production for one game, and projecting it for those who can't seem to comprehend the "one game" concept. Why don't you go take your hard on for Downey to a Griffins board. It would do us all some good.

Learn to read and comprehend. Three is not six. Congraulations on failing.

The Sedins haven't scored at Z's pace so far, but have picked up their pace considerably. The numbers I posted were assuming they would likely play 7-8 more seasons. That puts them between 1250-1400 games. That puts their production for the rest of their career falling somewhere between 0.769 and 1.40 PPG, which works out to between 63 and 115 points per 82 games to hit my estimate. Z I am guessing 9-10 more seasons. This puts him between 1200 and 1350 games. His PPG for the rest of his career would fall somewhere between .875 and 1.23, or between 72 and 101 points per 82.

Because a fourth line that was together for a handful of seasons is comparable in any way to a Hall of Famer who is one of the greatest players in team history.