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It was a combination. The goalies weren't as bad as the numbers, but the goaltending was much worse than 07-08.

Other big differences in the GA between the two are: Osgood had one of his best regular seasons and was a Vezina contender in 07-08, but had one of his worst regular seasons in 08-09 Hasek was Osgood's partner in 07-08 and played at a comparable level for most of the year; Conklin was Osgood's partner in 08-09 and played at a comparable level most of the year. The 08-09 team was not as good defensively as the 07-08 team, but goaltending was a notable factor.

You win at math. Here's a cookie.

He's 12 points behind Lidstrom (14 gp), 4 points behind Stuart (14 gp), 1 point behind Kronwall (14 gp), tied with Salei (14 gp), one point ahead of Rafalski (4 gp) and 3 points ahead of Ericsson (6 gp). Hudler himself has played 12 games. You are grabbing stats and trying to force them into your position. A "scoring forward" is a forward whose job is to create offense and whose abilities and play style lead towards that end. A "defensive forward" is a forward whose abilities and play style lead towards effective defensive play. And a "two-way forward" is a combination of the two, a forward with aspects of both a scoring forward and a defensive forward.

Eaves, Miller, Filppula, Helm, Datsyuk, and Zetterberg. Who do you want out there in the last minute of a game when you're down a goal, Hudler or Cleary? Who do you want setting up and running your power play, Hudler or Cleary? It's a matter of situations. One is better at some and the other is better at others. Wow, shocking. For the first 8-10 games, Cleary wasn't bringing his offense and was playing well below the expected level defensively. So you can't just say "Cleary is a beast in all three zones, so he has to be in" because that has the same validity as if I were to say "Hudler is the second best playmaker on the team, so he has to be in."

WTF....RJ Umberger? Ed Jovanovski? Bryan McCabe? Dan Hamhuis? Dustin Byfuglien? This list is all kinds of f***ed up.

You joke. Most players in the league couldn't have made that pass. You could give most players five minutes untouched behind the net and they wouldn't be able to thread a pass like that through to a forward in scoring position like Flip was. Hudler is a scoring forward. He has a good shot and is an excellent playmaker. Accept it. Deal with it. He created a ton of chances against Edmonton, including a couple that Franzen, who some on LGW say is the team's top sniper, completely botched. As for Babcock, he's got motive in calling Hudler out the way he did; he's always got motive. But if you seriously think last night was the first night Hudler has worked hard all season, then you either haven't watched any games yet or you can't tell when a player is working.

I was wondering more about Kronwall.

Williams was decent on the point. He wasn't great, but he was certainly better than a lot of other options.

Could it be because...he's the best forward on the team?

I still don't get the Modano PP thing. He has been terrible on the point (and up until recently ineffective at forward.) At least Sammy and JWill were good point men. Lidstrom, Kronwall, Stuart, and Ericsson or Kindl could have been the PP blueline.

"Performing" means more than just stats. I know I have a rep on here for being the numbers guy, but you can be the best player in a given game without scoring a point. A goalie can have a good game and still give up 3-4 goals and lose. You need to learn this.

Yep. Cleary is one of Babcock's favorites, and Modano is not going to sit unless he wants to. Babs has never been a Huds fan, and the fourth line was playing well. So Hudler was doomed to sit with the line not meshing.

The BFF combo was the team's best line for the first four games. That's it. Flip's lack of production over the past six games before tonight illustrates that. If it were the team's "best" line he'd have been producing. Bertuzzi and Franzen each had three in six coming in, for seven total between the three. I would say Flip's line has been the third best since Abdelkader came back. Tonight the Franzen/Flip/Huds line might have been the best line out, but the past few games Franzen, Flip, and Bert together have been performing worse than DZH or the Modano line.

Let's assume that a 9mm bullet fired from a gun is what would be required to move the goal frame. If that's so, then the puck would have to be fired at close to 200 mph. As you may have guessed, that's much faster than the puck is moving in the video. And another telling fact; the last shot hits the bottom third of the net, and lifts it off the ice. The first four hit it in the top half and don't. If they're that powerful, they should have.

Modano and Cleary were sending wild shots above and wide of the net earlier in the year. I can remember a couple plays that should have been sure goals but they put them over the net or wide of the net. Now Mo and Clears are not missing the net nearly as much. You tell me what happened. The second line took off tonight when Hudler was swapped for Bert, scoring at even strength and the whole line was out for Mule's goal on the PP. As for passing the puck, Modano's problem earlier in the year is that he WASN'T passing, not that he couldn't pass. He was trying to do too much on his own rather than using his teammates. Cleary was having serious puck movement issues in general, shot or pass, so he may well have had some minor wrist injury because he's looked better than he has in a long time the past few games. Regardless, These are the lines I was asking for to start the year and they all played really well. So let's keep this moving and see where it goes. You are wrong. It's not that Hudler's nice to have but not as a top 12/6...it's that LGW is a great forum to post on, just not when you're around.

I didn't disregard Hudler's cold streak. If you'll reread, I said that it's too early to use stats to judge a player's play for this season. I simply pointed out that Hudler and Flip had the same number of points in the past few games.

Abdelkader and Bertuzzi didn't make Modano or Cleary suddenly able to hit the net. Hudler set them up with plenty of opportunities earlier in the year that were completely blown, or Hudler was in great shooting position and Cleary or Modano either made a poor shot, didn't pass, or blew the pass. That kind of stuff has nothing to do with Hudler. Abdelkader has been great, and Bertuzzi has looked better than he has since Vancouver, but that doesn't mean Hudler's a terrible player. If Brett Hull gets in great scoring position every shift for 10 games, but he only scores 2 goals and both on individual efforts because his center is Shawn Burr, is that Hull's fault?

Filppula's most common line last season was Filppula/Zetterberg/Bertuzzi. Maybe he didn't play all year on that line, but he played on it more than any other. As for Filppula's scoring pace being better than Hudler's; I have stated before that it is too early to compare the two based on stats, especially given that Hudler is in a major scoring slump compared to his normal production while Filppula started the season hot with a hot Franzen and a rejuvenated Bertuzzi. And something of note? In the six games coming into tonight, Filppula had one goal and no assists. Hudler had no goals and one assist. Acting like Filppula's big numbers came from anything but a few hot games to start the year is deceptive. As for the "it's not like when he plays in the top six he's always the best" that comment has no bearing. How about let's put Hudler in the top six for more than two games and find out what happens? He's been very effective in every one of the four or five games he's gotten to play in that role. So why not give him the chance?

He's been doing that stuff all season; the problem as far as production he was having is that nobody on the Huds/Modo/Clears line could get the puck in the net while it was together. All three seem to be doing much better since it has been split up, so it may very well have been a chemistry issue.

Last season Niklas Kronwall was the second best defenseman on the team. He played the fourth-most minutes per game. In the 2007 playoffs, Chris Pronger played the most of any Anaheim defenseman. Scott Niedermayer won the Conn Smythe. Clearly, minutes per game are an undeniable indicator of who is better, and we can simply stop recording other stats.

A puck weighs 6 ounces. A goal net weighs close to 70 pounds. That alone is enough to tell anyone with a brain that it's a fake. Smart idea for a ad, though. It's clearly viral, and the ad's point is that the stick provides a ton of extra power on your shot.

Hate him however you want, he's still a great playmaker and made a great play that gave Flip what was pretty much a gimme goal. At least recognize that.

It's about the future, Crymson. Some people are frightened of change.

Filppula has never played on a line without at least one player who outperformed him. Hudler has almost always been the best player on his line. This season is Filppula's real breakout offensively, plus he started the season playing with Franzen and a rejuvenated Bertuzzi. Hudler opened the season playing on a line with linemates he never had the opportunity to play with before in Modano and Cleary. Mo and Clears were just as cold as Huds was at the start of the year, because none of the three played a full preseason due to injuries. So it's not really a fair comparison at this point to take a guy who started out hot and compare him to a guy who started out cold. But for those of you who haven't been paying attention, Filppula was on pace for 45 points coming into tonight. Putting Hudler on his line sure seems to have helped him and Franzen out of that slump they were in.