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You mean Kessel. If they could trade Kessel for Kesler straight up it would be a huge win for the Leafs.

Some of us read articles, some of us watch games. And for the "Henrik is so far much better than Daniel" Yes, Henrik, won the Hart. But they play an extremely similar style, and Daniel had better offensive numbers last season if you want to take that into account, and is typically more effectively offensively when left to his own devices. If you are using the Hart as a complaint, well then what the hell happened to THN's list? It wasn't a "homer" decision to put Zetterberg at #1. It was a matter of comparing each team's players and ranking them in order, and then figuring out from those 30 lists what forwards, defensemen, and goaltenders ranked. After that it was a matter of simply figuring out who ranked at the top, forward, defenseman, or goaltender? Zetterberg is the best forward in the league, due in large part to his completeness and clutch ability. Ovechkin, Datsyuk, the Sedins, Toews, and Crosby as you saw also finished in the top ten, based on their overall ability and not just how many points they scored plus how popular they are. Duncan Keith ranked atop the defensemen, deservedle, slightly ahead of Nicklas Lidstrom, who finished second amond Red Wings. Ryan Miller is the top goaltender on the list. So the first question is, which is the top forward, defenseman, and goaltender? Ultimately, Zetterberg won the 1v1v1 battle for the top spot against Duncan Keith and Ryan Miller, putting Alex Ovechkin in his place as the top remaining unselected forward. Ovechkin, Keith, Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Doughty, Sedin, Sedin, and so on went the selections. If you feel you have a better way of selecting the top players in the league than this, go ahead and recommendit to me and I might reconsider my list.

Sedin has a very similar two-way playing-style to his brother; that's why they work so well together. Now look at his numbers from last year.

Naslund is absolutely over Zetterberg. Naslund won the Pearson trophy in 2002-03, and was second in league scoring and Hart voting (Forsberg won) and was a First Team All-Star three consecutive years while playing on a line with Brendan Morrison and Todd Bertuzzi, both of whom saw significant declines immediately after being separated from Naslund. Zetterberg will likely be ahead of Naslund by the end of this season or next, but right now it's Naslund.

3rd line center is beneath Filppula too according to most of this board. Filppula is a borderline top six forward, while Primeau was a legit power forward when he made comments to that effect. Think we could trade Filppula and Brad Stuart for Jarome Iginla? No, that kind of attitude shouldn't fly. But at the same time, his comments were more about getting more playing time at center than about being a third line center. Primeau probably would have been fine as the third line center on this year's team because he'd get 2-3 more minutes at center. That was his issue.

I don't have the list, and don't have access to a copy of it, but here's what I would put for the Top 50. Get your pitchforks. 1) Henrik Zetterberg, C 2) Alexander Ovechkin, LW 3) Duncan Keith, D 4) Nicklas Lidstrom, D 5) Pavel Datsyuk, C 6) Drew Doughty, D 7) Daniel Sedin, LW 8) Henrik Sedin, C 9) Jonathan Toews, C 10) Sidney Crosby, C (Sorry Carman) 11) Ryan Miller, G 12) Jarome Iginla, RW 13) Chris Pronger, D 14) Patrick Marleau, LW 15) Ilya Kovalchuk, LW 16) Evgeni Malkin, C 17) Shea Weber, D 18) Zdeno Chara, D 19) Tomas Vokoun, G 20) Joe Thornton, C 21) Steven Stamkos, C 22) Patrick Kane, RW 23) Ryan Kesler, C 24) Mariak Gaborik, LW 25) Nicklas Backstrom, C 26) Dan Heatley, RW 27) Martin Brodeur, D 28) Miikka Kiprusoff, G 29) Brad Richards, C 30) Anze Kopitar, C 31) Martin St.Louis, RW 32) Alexander Semin, LW 33) Ilya Bryzgalov, G 34) Niklas Backstrom, G 35) Henrik Lunqdvist, G 36) Roberto Luongo, G 37) Christian Ehrhoff, D 38) Niklas Kronwall, D 39) Brent Seabrook, D 40) Dan Boyle, D 41) Jordan Staal, C 42) Loui Eriksson, LW 43) Eric Staal, C 44) Cam Ward, G 45) Mikko Koivu, C 46) Jonathan Quick, G 47) Tomas Plekanec, C 48) Vincent Lecavalier, C 49) Marian Hossa, RW 50) Johan Franzen, RW EDIT: Some text running together.

Many starting goaltenders in the NHL are young goalies who have not proven their ability but as of last season are considered "top goalies" by many because of a small sample. Some examples of names would include Jonas Hiller, Tuukka Rask, Antti Niemi, Steve Mason, Craig Anderson, Jimmy Howard, Jonathan Quick, Ilya Bryzgalov, and Jaroslav Halak.

Ok, as you clearly missed my point given that you still seem to believe Cheveldae has gone unmentioned: He was first mentioned on August 17th, 10:38. You can even go back and read the post, it's not that far back and not that long. You're welcome.

Did you even READ the thread?

Howard had a great season, but at the same time it's hard to blame the defense playing worse in front of Osgood on Osgood, when Osgood never got to play. That's going back and forth again and again, trying to lay the blame on nobody?

How about Jack Adams, Mike Ilitch, Scott Bowman, and James Norris?

If that's a shot at my take on Howard's playoff performance, I state again for the record that I think I he played below his ability due to the fact he was overly fatigued, and the team didn't give him the kind of protection that would have let him play at top end. It wasn't Howard's fault, but I don't want to see the same kind of failed stamina from that kid next postseason. I wanted better managed goaltending and I want a goalie who can handle his starts, 20 or 70. Last year's Wings might have gotten to the Conference Finals with Tim Cheveldae. With last year's team he could have been Grant Fuhr; a goalie with great stamina playing very well every game on a great team. Instead of just being who he was, a goalie who was capable of playing an entire season (72 games in 91-92, 30 games in 94-95) and the only reason he didn't play more games is because he spent half his career as a backup or 1a.

Overall, no he wasn't. And that's because the loving has more recently peaked with a couple DOMINANT playoff runs and a Cup win. But the hating was much worse. Just think about 1994, when, despite the fact Osgood came in to save Bob Essensa's ass, the Wings were supposed to be dominant champions who swept their way through the playoffs, just as they did in the regular season? A President's trophy without Yzerman, and then Yzerman returning to center arguably the best line (Primeau-Yzerman-Sheppard) in the league (challenged by Kozlov-Fedorov-Ciccarelli) and then to see that team just fail so miserably across the board and then all the blame to be set at the rookie goaltender's feet for one thing he did wrong, after having stolen the starter job three times that season for being one of the ten or fifteen best goaltenders in the NHL in his first season in the NHL. Being scapegoated so heavily that year definitely puts him up there in the "single-season" and "rookie" categories, but his playoff performances since then have cleared his name.

Hossa got a ton of blame, but he got no more blame than Cujo and Hossa played MUCH worse. And to go back to my point re: Legace: Legace received more blame than Cujo playing for a Wings team that put out a worse performance. People say Cujo was viewed as a bigger scapegoat now because he came in right after the Cup win, and was a much better goalie, but Legace was it.

Jason Williams had his deficiencies, but he was still a very good player. He was a top line scoring forward in the best league in the world, he had a powerful shot and was a good as both a playmaker and a sniper. In Columbus he did well when asked to perform a much more single-minded role. His performance as an all-around forward was not world-class, but he is a more talented player than many who are still on the roster right now. He is gone because he wasn't able to translate his skills and to become a top-six all-around forward, which is what Detroit wanted him to do. On the side, the question is, who needs an inexpensive top-six forward? Williams could very well end up in Chicago for a second term. He did well the last time, he can fit alongside Patrick Sharp or Dave Bolland quite nicely and his speed, shot, and playmaking would help their PP nicely. If I were Stan Bowman, I'd look at Williams for another winger. Cigarette, and snowboard pipe?

Alexander Selivanov?

Legace didn't do well, but Legace was a bigger scapegoat than Cujo was. Fedorov was also a bigger scapegoat than Cujo was ever since the holdout in the mid-90s. Yet without Fedorov, Detroit doesn't win in 97, 98, or 2002.

CuJo wasn't the biggest scapegoat in the last 20+ years. He's just the one who's been forgiven. Now Fedorov and Legace, on the other hand...

Howe, Yzerman, Lindsay, and Lidstrom...while there are so many you can choose from of incredible magnitude, that four is automatically selected, and here's why: ly Howe: Greatest player ever, and was a great all-around player. Yzerman: The greatest captain ever, the face of the franchise, a historic Original Six franchise which had turned into a sad joke of a business was completely rebuilt around him, more than just on the ice. Lindsay: He was, the best left winger ever, but more importantly he was almost singlehandedly responsible for the creation of the NHLPA. Lidstrom: He is arguably one of the top three defensemen of all time, and he is the only European defenseman since Slava Fetisov to ever have his name mentioned around the West at that level. He has cleared the way for a new generation of great young European defensemen, something that might have never have been seen without Lidstrom.

Leighton played poorly for most of the stretch, and had a couple of hot games that let him play the rest of the stretch (Boucher was the starter at the beginning of the run, and has had several good NHL playoff runs in his career) Niemi's playoff looked at least as good as Leighton. And more importantly, since when did 29 year-olds ever have "potential" anyway? Michael Leighton has already PLAYED his career, he'll be lucky to play another year or two. He's a VETERAN. He has no "potential" at all.

Hard to be worse than a team's 5th string goalie, no matter which team. Incredible Philadelphia automatic brought Leighton and ONLY Leighton back of the guys with expiring contracts. The guy who was the 5th stringer going into last season is the only guy still with one of the Cup finalists as a starter, unless Huet puts himself back in the #1 spot before the start of the year.

Bruins - Raymond Bourque Sabres - Ryan Miller Canadiens - Ken Dryden Senators - Daniel Alfredsson Leafs - Wendel Clark Devils - Brendan Shanahan Isles - Denis Potvin Rangers - John Vanbiesbrouck Flyers - Mark Howe Penguins - Mario Lemieux Thrashers - Slava Kozlov Hurricanes - Ron Francis Panthers - John Vanbiesbrouck Lightning - Dave Andreychuk Capitals - Peter Bondra Flames - Theoren Fleury Avalanche - Joe Sakic Oilers - Mike Comrie Wild - Stacy Roest Canucks - Trevor Linden Blackhawks - Jonathan Toews Blue Jackets - Ray Whitney Red Wings - Steve Yzerman Predators - Dan Legwand Blues - Dallas Drake Ducks - Teemu Selanne Stars - Mike Modano Kings - Luc Robitaille Coyotes - Teemu Selanne Sharks - Owen Nolan

And when Yzerman offers him Malone for Kaberle around New Years, what does Burke say?

Which places one of the expiring forward contracts (Modano, Eaves, Miller, and Draper) in the replacement spot for Mursak's spot doesn't it, and possibly a spot for Tatar as well. Modano and Draper are expected to retire, which opens up two free spots right away doesn't it? Mursak would be expected to take whatever spot opens up if any, unless he completely bombs, so Tatar is still a couple of years off just because he's a Wing.

That is correct, but it still matters who the "candidates" are. Last year Keith and Doughty were candidates because they are great defensemen, not because they play with Seabrook and Johnson.