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When I was younger, my parents' lawyer stole over $100,000 from an insurance settlement. While you can make the argument that Fedorov should have just paid cash for his house, the fact that he was cheated out of $43m is not something to say "Yeah, but look how much he was making" or "It's ridiculous for him to be banking on that as his retirement" because you don't know how much or how little money he had after that. Fedorov being in such debt is surprising, and he should be able to pay his way out. But not only feeling no sympathy, but acting as if he deserves to face foreclosure is absolutely atrocious, hideous, inhuman behavior. I don't care if you don't like that he left the Wings. You should feel ashamed of yourselves. Regardless, it is ridiculous that this is a news story.

Only for qualifying offers, hence the little 'mixup' in Chicago last year. Well, I suppose there is a deadline for the Blues to sign Halak before he becomes a UFA. Of course that's next summer IIRC, so don't count on Halak being a UFA anytime soon.

Do you think Montreal would rather have Niemi than Carey Price?

Niemi didn't look all that great in the finals. He was barely better than Leighton, who was terrible and played like the 5th string goalie he was. Niemi is not a bad goalie, don't misunderstand me. But he has played one season. Follow my point a little further. Steve Mason was nominated for the Vezina and stole the Calder based on a ton of hype, even though there were nearly a dozen goalies who had better season, including rookie Pekka Rinne. Mason was one of the league's worst starters this past year. There are no guarantees that Niemi isn't another Mason. Or Raycroft. Or any other of the number of goalies who has a great rookie season and then turns into a mediocre backup. Jim Carey had two great years, played a couple more decent seasons as a starter and then a backup and then retired. Niemi, Howard, Mason, Rask, Halak, Varlamov, Rinne? None of them are guarantees. If San Jose tries to steal Niemi on an offer sheet that will force Chicago's hand, it will be one so high the Hawks would be stupid to match regardless of their cap situation. And winning the Cup doesn't make a proven goalie if you have only played part of one season. Niemi could still be a complete bust.

"Platypus (I Hate You)" - Green Day

Because, you know, the Sharks are going to pay an unproven sophomore a huge contract that would cost them a bunch of picks instead of paying a comparable of smaller one to their star goalie, or going out and getting a decent veteran and shoring up their skaters. Unless they are trading for Niemi and taking Campbell as punishment, it is not happening.

Quit going back and copying what I was saying weeks and months ago. It's not nice.

I know I'll never change your mind. Hence the reason I asked if we could get the thread back on topic. Maybe you could tell me your opinion on whether the Wings need a more offensively talented center than Helm or Abdelkader to center the third line. Perhaps you think Hudler should be centering it between Cleary and one of Miller/Eaves/Ritola, and Filppula playing the Wing with Dats or Z?

Yes, I concede that had Hudler and Flip switched PP time to match having gotten almost as much time at even strength as Datsyuk or Zetterberg, then would Flip be around 50 points total, good for 7th or 8th on the team. and Hudler would be around 40, between 9th and 11th on the team. However, had Hudler gotten the even-strength ice time Flip had and vice-versa. Hudler would be around 65 points (4th on the team) and Filppula would be around 30 (13th) so go ahead and make the PP argument. And if you plan on saying "Well he'd score at a higher rate on the PP if he got more time!" don't bother. He scored at the same per-minute rate this year playing basically Hudler's 08-09 PP time per game. Now, can we get back on topic about how Filppula should be the third line center REGARDLESS of whether he's playing top-six minutes, on the PP, etc?

Filppula's overall points-per-game was .500 in 08-09 yet it was .636 in 09-10. He played CONSIDERABLY more time. He played 300 more minutes (about 30%) in 08-09 and scored 5 more points. You're bringing up "Well he played with these scrubs during this time he didn't get points" so you're basically saying Flip can't create his own offense. Hudler did just that, and has carried every line he played on since his rookie year except for the short time he played with Zetterberg. If Filppula requires other players to bring the offense, then how can you say he's the same level of offensive player as Hudler, who is arguably the Wings' best player at doing so after Dats and Z?

I heard from one of my sources (who heard it from his annual subscription to Eklund, who heard it from his 'source') that the Wings were going to trade Zetterberg, Franzen, and Kronwall to Washington for Ovechkin and a 2nd rounder in this summer's draft. Clearly, it's a lock to happen.

Oh man, you clearly beat my point of how much better offensively Hudler is by saying Filppula is better all-around, something I myself basically said six posts ago. I feel shamed and defeated. Your debate skills are unmatched. You should run for political office, as you would most likely win every election with 90+% of the vote.

I was responding to the comment about "hopefully Datsyuk isn't put with Eaves and Holmstrom" in that it was posted with the attitude that the wingers would affect Datsyuk's performance. Eaves has a good shot. Zetterberg has shown excellent chemistry with Franzen, and has worked well with Hudler. Zetterberg himself is as much a shooter as he is a playmaker. Hudler is the second best playmaker on the team. Why waste Hudler's talent by putting him with Datsyuk? Why waste Z's chemistry with Franzen? Hudler/Z/Franzen is a line that has worked before and seems a natural combo to me; highly skilled playmaker with good shot, star center with great shot and playmaking skills, plus proven chemistry with both wingers, and excellent scoring winger with great shot and net-front presence. Datsyuk/Holmstrom is a combo that has been highly effective, so the only question is what winger do you put with them? Do you slot Filppula in and leave the third line center spot to Abdelkader or Helm, neither of whom is really a playmaker, playing with Bertuzzi who is only good below the hash marks and Cleary who is excellent defensively but in the offensive zone his play is primarily based on grinding and crashing the net? Bertuzzi opposite Holmstrom was a decent combo, but really doesn't fit well with the Wings' system. Cleary is a better fit, but ultimately Eaves plays the best puck possession/shooter role to play alongside Datsyuk. Eaves scored 12 goals last season playing on the third and fourth lines in a defensive role. You can give the spot to Drew Miller if you want, he's got skill too, but IMHO Eaves is a better fit. This leaves a Cleary/Filppula/Bertuzzi third line, a capable two-way line which will provide decent support scoring and solid defense.

Hmmm. Filppula's points-per-minute at even strength DECLINED from 08-09 to 09-10. You did know that, right? Meanwhile, Hudler's PPM was higher than Filppula's in 08-09. Filppula's PPM on the PP was about the same from one year to the next, and Hudler's in 08-09 was about 3.5 times what Flip's was. Going back further, Hudler's PPM at ES was well above Filppula's in 07-08 and 06-07. The first time Filppula came anywhere near Hudler's ES PPM was when THEY PLAYED TOGETHER ALL SEASON. Other years, Filppula played more than Hudler and scored less. Filppula had "the run" after Franzen came back. He scored 28 points in 33 games. Nice job. But outside of that, he only had 7 points in 22 games. Not so nice. People say "Filppula will score 70 points, he was on pace for it during his hot streak." Yet whenever hot streaks are mentioned regarding any other player, it's all about how hot streaks don't properly represent a player's play level. Guess what, the second one is right. A hot streak does not represent a player's play level. If he's hot for half a season on a 70-point pace, and cold for the other half on a 26 point pace, how do we know what player we'll get if he's supposed to produce at that level all season? The answer is that we'll get someone who is in between. Go watch some fight clips from the 1980s. Oh, and you'd better bring a couple boxes of tissues.

Eaves was on pace for almost 30 goals his rookie year in Ottawa. He has shown offensive skill and is a solid defensive player who plays a feisty physical game. Cleary hasn't been any better a goal scorer than Eaves was that season, and Cleary has had better opportunities. Both have spent most of their careers as defensive specialists who were first round picks and expected to produce much more offense than they have over their careers, as both have had injuries and limited opportunity to play in offensive roles. There is no reason Eaves is less deserving than Cleary of a spot on the "second" line with Datsyuk. And Drake, just so you know: I don't know about other people, but I arrange the lines based on the quality of the LINE. While I do rate Zetterberg ahead of Datsyuk as a player, it's not for that reason that the Z line is listed first. If you swapped Franzen and Eaves, then Dats' line would be listed first. If Filppula were playing with Franzen and Hudler, Z had Miller and Abdelkader, and Dats had Helm and Eaves, then maybe Filppula's line is listed first. Of course, that leaves a fourth line of Holmstrom/Cleary/Bertuzzi... Because Eaves isn't "good enough" to play on the wing with Datsyuk? If Datsyuk needs to have really good linemates in your opinion, is he really that good then?

This is so ******* amusing. People are saying "Yeah, 70 points for Flip seems likely." and " I'll bet 60-70 points for Flip" yet when Mike Babcock says "I think we can get at least 70 points out of Hudler." it is all "No way do we see that kind of production from that midget!" and stuff like that, even though Hudler has shown to be the far more offensively talented player. Flip is the better two-way player, but he is not even CLOSE to Hudler's offensive skill.

Simple. Here's what the Wings should start the season with, and shift around to figure out chemistry if necessary: Hudler/Zetterberg/Franzen Holmstrom/Datsyuk/Eaves Cleary/Filppula/Bertuzzi Abdelkader/Helm/Miller Draper Lidstrom/Ericsson Kronwall/Rafalski Kindl/Stuart Meech Howard Osgood EDIT: Wow, everyone really seems to hate my lines at the rate I'm getting minuses. Do people on this board actually care about meaningless posts in repetitive threads?

Well, based on the statement in the article that Holland is working on deals with Miller, Abby, Helm, Eaves, and Meech, then one thing is clear: Assuming that Miller, Eaves, Helm, and Abdelkader accept their qualifying offers, then we will likely see Miller, Eaves, and Ritola competing for the 13th forward spot, as otherwise the Wings will be over the cap with 14 forwards, 7 defensemen, and 2 goaltenders signed for a full 23-man roster. The Wings don't have enough cap space for all three to be on the roster, nor would they want to carry two extra forwards if they don't have to.

Lids-Ericsson Kronwall-Rafalski Kindl-Stuart Those should be the pairings. That way, Kindl and Ericsson can be allowed to make the mistakes a developing defenseman will make without forcing Howie or Oz to tear their shirt and tie off and wear silly tights and a cape just to stop a goal. Kronner and Rafalski would be a solid pair because it's two guys who can play both ways, and the opposing team can't really focus on one defenseman as 'the primary threat' because both are capable of becoming "the guy" if necessary.

Larry Murphy was a Penguin. Luc Robitaille was a Penguin. Should we hate those guys too?

Forsberg is like Brett Favre. He hasn't played a full season for any team in any league since 2002-03. In 2007-08, Forsberg was a UFA and chose not to sign with any team, and said he was not returning to the NHL. But then he changed his mind late in the season and signed with the Avs, and played nine games for them. After that, he chose to return to Sweden and play in the SEL. And now he's thinking of coming back again? Sounds kinda Favre-ish to me. Nothing wrong with it if he can keep up, but he is pretty damn injury prone. Next up, the return of Eric Lindros.

Byfuglien wouldn't even be in this conversation if he didn't scrape up all of the scraps from Toews and Kane on the PP. He scored 5 PP goals in 22 games, compared to 6 in the regular season. his pace works out to 19, which would have put him second to Stamkos' 24 in the regular season. Toews was a beast all playoffs... Byfuglien was good, but no better than Hossa. The difference is Hossa was the best player on his line most of the run, while Byfuglien was the third best player on his. Hossa scored more than Versteeg, had more impact defensively, and created more chances. Hossa scored more than Bolland at even strength, and both were key to the Hawks' PK unit. In fact, only Kane (16) and Sharp (15) had more even strength points than Hossa (14) did, and Hossa's 11 even strength assists led the team. So no, he wasn't scoring a bunch of goals; he was only on pace for 11. But he was a key defensive player and was still on pace for 50+ points. People measuring him entirely by his goals are stupid and don't know hockey. Period.

Ok, here's a question I have been dying to ask. People keep saying guys like Hudler and Bertuzzi are bad fits for the 3rd line because they aren't checking, defensive players. Instead they are players who play less of a defensive game and more of an offensive game, and are more suited to the top two lines. Yet at the same time, the same people say "Hudler only scored like he did on the third line because he was playing against other teams' third lines." Now to me, that seems like a contradiction. Hudler is supposedly playing against the line that the Hudler-haters are saying should be your best defensive line, and scoring well regardless of his linemates. Shouldn't that mean he would put up better point totals against the opposing team's top lines, as they aren't as skilled defensively? Maybe it's just be, but I always thought 1+2=3, not 1+2=1.

I have always personally thought that the center line should be removed entirely and that icing should be called based on the blue line. This would make dumping the puck down the ice on the PK less likely to be an icing even if it were still called.

It would be 3.3; Janik would be waived and sent to GR to open up the roster spot; I posted a 23-man roster due to the available cap space. As far s Pyatt, I have been wanting him in a Wings uniform since he started in the league.