eva unit zero

Tallon built a championship roster and was removed from the GM position after completely putting the Stanley Cup champions together. He was demoted to "senior advisor" in favor of Stan Bowman taking the GM position. The worst part is that he isn't even with the organization anymore. It's like if Kenny traded Kronwall for another defenseman, and that defenseman was horrible in Detroit, so Kenny was placed in a "advisor" position and Nill was named GM, and then Kenny left to be GM of another team while the Wings won the Cup without making any other moves. Would be pretty unfair to Kenny.

As far as previous winners in the past 20 years (since Lemieux in 1991) who IMHO weren't necessarily the 'real' MVP, I place the guys who I didn't consider locks in terms of who deserved it in this order: 1995 Lemieux; should have been Brodeur 1997 Vernon; should have been Yzerman 2001 Roy; should have been Sakic 2009 Malkin; arguable for Osgood or Zetterberg 1993 Roy; arguable for Damphousse or Desjardins 1998 Yzerman; arguable for Fedorov or Osgood Toews was basically a lock; tied Savard's points record for the Hawks, played solid D, great on faceoffs, took the other teams' top D unit every game. Team captain and acted like it. Kane was totally inconsistent, Niemi was up and down, Keith was the only other Hawks player with a chance. Pronger was the Flyers' best bet and in the most important game of the series he was their worst player. That means it was Toews, Keith, or Pronger. So that cuts the success rate to between to 68.4% and 84.2% ; that's a pretty good success rate with that one compared to the other awards IMHO. The Norris trophy will have either a 52.6% or a 57.9% accuracy rate IMHO since 1991 after it is awarded this year. Accuracy of 63.2% or 68.4% for the Hart. The Vezina will be at 68.4% or 73.7%, and the Selke at 63.2% or 68.4%. So only the Vezina is close to to the Conn Smythe in terms of accuracy as to who they "should" be awarded to, likely due to the fact they are restricted to only choosing the MVP from two teams rather than 30. Unless you think all of the guys I listed as 'wrong are wrong, and all of the 'correct' winners win, in which case the Hart and Selke will match the Smythe's success rate.

Both Campbell and Huet are big, hard-to-move contracts... But the fact is, those players can be waived and sent to the minors and have their hit disappear from the Hawks' cap. They did it with Khabibulin, remember? If Hawks management realizes this fact, then they aren't so handcuffed. They are also dropping $5m in Kim Johnsson's removal from the roster. By sending down Huet and Campbell until they can move them, they can keep all of their young forwards if they are able to get reasonable deals on their RFAs and either promote prospects or can sign cheap UFAs to fill remaining slots on defense. Losing Campbell from the top four for Sopel, a mediocre rookie, or a cheap vet would probably be a downgrade. Sending Huet down and slotting Crawford or Toivonen in the backup spot also is probably a downgrade. But those two moves keep Sharp, Versteeg, Bolland, and Ladd on the roster. Both Campbell and Huet are big, hard-to-move contracts... But the fact is, those players can be waived and sent to the minors and have their hit disappear from the Hawks' cap. They did it with Khabibulin, remember? If Hawks management realizes this fact, then they aren't so handcuffed. They are also dropping $5m in Kim Johnsson's removal from the roster. By sending down Huet and Campbell until they can move them, they can keep all of their young forwards if they are able to get reasonable deals on their RFAs and either promote prospects or can sign cheap UFAs to fill remaining slots on defense. Losing Campbell from the top four for Sopel, a mediocre rookie, or a cheap vet would probably be a downgrade. Sending Huet down and slotting Crawford or Toivonen in the backup spot also is probably a downgrade. But those two moves keep Sharp, Versteeg, Bolland, and Ladd on the roster.

Captains at the front of each line. As it should be.

I noticed that too. Although you have to agree with what he said. Anyway... I expect a Kopecky/Hossa combination for the winner.

Vladdy, Fischer, and Grigs all never having their accidents? Would be nice. Just an FYI to those making "what would our defense look like" combinations... Krupp, Hatcher, and Chelios would never have been acquired. Likely not Stuart either. Rafalski replaced Murphy, who replaced Fetisov. So our defense might be... Lidstrom/Rafalski Konstantinov/Fischer Kronwall/??? That 6th spot might be Anders Eriksson, it might be Jonathan Ericsson, it might be Kyle Quincey or Derek Meech.

If Tatar is a sure-fire hit, how come he didn't step right on to the Wings' roster? He won't be on the roster this year either, and is unlikely to see time as a call up. He's a damn good prospect, but those of you sitting there bashing Hudler need to remember that Hudler was drafted in 2002, played 2002-03 in Europe, and in 2003-04 he split the season between Grand Rapids and Detroit. If Tatar is such a sure fire hit, why hasn't he jumped into the fold yet?

Speaking of center prospects who have been in the system forever... what about Ryan Oulahen? Have to figure he'll get a shot as the first or second call up if needed.

Finnish Wing, The problem most people have with Leino falls because of two reasons: 1) He is doing much better for Philly. 2) This is the big one; People (mainly the "it's not hockey if there isn't a fight" crew) hated Hudler because he was small, so the expectation was that he was going to be Hudler and replace his scoring, only with size and physical play. He's a good player, but those same people just don't realize the kind of skill Hudler has and the ability to create offense from NOTHING that he has displayed. Leino should do well on a team like Philly that is giving him an opportunity, just like how if actually given an opportunity in Detroit, Hudler should be an absolute monster offensively. So you can see where this whole discussion came from. Hope that sheds some light.

I love the enthusiasm about watching and waiting to see what moves are and aren't made to improve the Wings' roster. It's great and is another example of the Wings having the best fan base in the world. But there is a reality that must be faced, which most of the posters in this thread will consider a travesty. The #6 defenseman on the 2010-11 Red Wings, at least to start the season, will be one of three players: Jonathan Ericsson, Jakub Kindl, or Derek Meech. Ericsson already has a spot in the top six. Kindl would have to play himself into a trade to be outside of the top seven. Meech is going to be offered a contract and his feistiness, versatility and two-way ability could potentially bring him as high as 5th on the depth chart if he plays his best game every night. For any new defensemen to be brought in, it would have to involve a trade of one of these three players, or a long-term injury to someone in the top four. All three of Ericsson/Kindl/Meech have solid offensive skills and good secondary talents, they just need to fully develop their skills and round out their games. Ericsson and Kindl can be top-pairing defensemen in this league, and Meech can be a good all-around second-pairing defenseman who could be used in pretty much any situation. Think about Kyle Quincey. Meech consistently showed better all-around potential than Quincey in the AHL and played better in the NHL in the limited minutes each were given as call-ups in 2006-07 and 2007-08. It is not unreasonable to think that Meech, who has played better now than he did in 2007-08, is still a better player than Quincey (Colorado's #1 defenseman, and he plays on top PP and PK units) and could still outperform him, if he were given a regular role. It also makes you think more about the Lebda suck factor. Lebda truly sucked. This is a known fact. If Meech had been playing instead of Lebda (like I have advocated for a LONG time) would the team have performed better defensively? Quite likely. So adios Brett, enjoy whatever bottom tier team needs a speedy defenseman who can't hold on to the puck and doesn't play defense well. So... Ericsson Pros:Huge, moderate physical game, cannon shot, decent passer. Cons: Needs to improve defensively and be more aggressive physically. Kindl Pros: Good size, offensively very skilled, good skater. Cons: Also needs defensive improvement and to add more aggressive physical game. Meech Pros: Slick skater with good speed, offensively aware, defensively capable. Cons: On the smaller side, although he can play aggressively he can often be outmuscled. There's your #5-#7 defensemen.

I doubt money was the issue at all. I would be willing to bet Yzerman's salary with Tampa is not far above, if at all, than his salary with Detroit is. There are many around the league who speculate that Jim Nill gets paid more to be an Assistant GM in Detroit than a lot of guys get paid for GM jobs. I wouldn't be shocked if Yzerman's position was the same way. Yzerman had always stated he wanted to be a team's GM. He was third in line in Detroit. Tampa offered him the job. What do you do? You want a store manager position, but you're one of two assistant managers and you have lower seniority. Another company offers you a store manager position making the same money or more as you are now. Do you say "No, I'm gonna stick around here until I get he job here" or do you take the job?

For those who are trying to figure out Bertuzzi's potential contract... Holland has signed Lidstrom and Holmstrom, and has stated he will make qualifying offers to all of his RFAs, all before turning his attention to Bertuzzi. This means our roster could potentially look like this when negotiations with Bertuzzi begin: FORWARDS Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) Tomas Holmstrom ($1.875m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / Todd Bertuzzi ($?.???m) Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) / Patrick Eaves ($0.550m) Justin Abdelkader ($0.893m) / Darren Helm ($0.659m) / Drew Miller ($0.578m) Kris Draper ($1.583m) Mattias Ritola ($0.517m) DEFENSEMEN Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m) Derek Meech ($0.532m) GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) Chris Osgood ($1.417m) ROSTER: 22; CAP: $56.8m/$58.8m; PAYROLL: $55.467m; CAP ROOM: $1.333m/$3.333m So Bertuzzi's contract could be anywhere from $1m to $3m depending on the cap and RFA negotiations. Not unrealistic that he could be kept, but what role would he have? In the lines I listed above, I put together three strong scoring lines. However, two minor changes (Hudler and Franzen for Filppula and Bertuzzi) shift Bertuzzi to a role on a checking third line with a clear secondary scoring role, rather than a line that would be relied on for primary scoring.

Two Red Wings since the 98-99 season have started their NHL careers before the age of 20. Jiri Fischer in 98-99 at 19, who was on path to become a star defenseman, and Jiri Hudler in 2003-04 at 19, who is a top-line scoring forward just entering his prime. The last player to start his career before the age of 20 with the Wings? Martin Lapointe in 91-92. Prior to Lapointe? Keith Primeau in 90-91. The "Bowman age" which began in 92-93 changed that a bit, as did the fact that starting in the early 90s first rounders were not necessarily guys who could step right on to the roster and contribute because the Wings picked so late most years. So a guy who can make the team under the age of 20 on a Wings team with solid depth at most positions is absolutely astounding.

Your numbers are last seasons' salaries for those players. All five of those RFAs will get qualifying offers. This means the following offers (rounded up to nearest thousand) must be made to retain rights: C Abdelkader $893k C Helm $659k W Miller $578k W Eaves $550k D Meech $536k That's a total of $3.216m that must be offered to our RFAs. Leaving $1.329m under this year's cap, plus whatever the cap increase is. That also brings the Wings to 13-7-2, meaning whatever remains under the cap can be used for Bertuzzi or someone else. But as Holland has said, he plans to take care of the RFAs ahead of Bertuzzi. Meaning Bertuzzi is likely not going to actually have a contract until the cap is known, and may not be in Detroit at all.

Stealing my point system, eh?

Uh oh, Dr. Howe, the defibrillator's not working! *elbow to chest* Dr. Howe, you've saved him!!

Where would Canada support a team? Canada's population works like this: Vancouver has a good, solid number of people. Calgary and Edmonton are dense population centers. Winnipeg and Saskatoon have a moderate amount of people, only noticeable due to the fact that their provinces are so completely barren otherwise. The area from Windsor, north to Sault St. Marie, and east to Toronto and the "Golden Horseshoe" holds a huge percentage of Canada's population and most of Canada's English speaking population. The area from Montreal to Quebec City is a bit thinner than the triangle west of Toronto, but still holds quite a bit. The area from Toronto to Montreal is similarly dense to the area of Quebec between Montreal and Quebec City. So where do you propose a new Canadian team? Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Toronto, Montreal, and Ottawa all have teams. Using the most dense areas, Windsor/Sarnia and Hamilton/or anything else in the "Horseshoe" could potentially affect existing teams. This leaves the top five areas for Canada to support a new NHL team as: Quebec City, Quebec Winnipeg, Manitoba Halifax, Nova Scotia Barrie/Midland, Ontario Fredericton, New Brunswick Somehow, I don't see those last two or three getting a team anytime soon. As far as the US, the top five areas are: Seattle, Washington/Portland, Oregon Houston, Texas Kansas City, Missouri Salt Lake City, Utah Milwaukee/Madison, Wisconsin If Phoenix moves, it is to Winnipeg; the BoG has already decided this. Buffalo, Florida, Columbus, Atlanta, the Islanders, Phoenix, and Ottawa are all teams that have recently been reported as having financial issues, being for sale, or both. Even that is still only seven teams. Say all seven are sold in one offseason and approved for relocation. Say Balsille buys the Sabres and he simply moves them across the border to Hamilton. Phoenix is moved back to Winnipeg. This leaves five locations from the ten I listed above. Quebec, Seattle, Houston, all would definitely get teams. Kansas City would definitely get a team before Barrie, so it comes down to Halifax vs Salt Lake City. We've already increased to nine Canadian teams, so that's not nearly as much of a factor. Population would be, though. So it's more than likely SLC gets the team. So we would see conferences of: WEST Central: Colorado, Kansas City, Minnesota, St. Louis, Salt Lake City Northwest: Calgary, Edmonton, Seattle, Vancouver, Winnipeg Southwest: Anaheim, Dallas, Houston, Los Angeles, San Jose EAST North: Chicago, Detroit, Hamilton, Nashville, Toronto Atlantic: Boston, Montreal, New Jersey, New York, Quebec Southeast: Carolina, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh, Tampa Bay, Washington Makes for some pretty interesting divisions also.

Technically, none of the teams you listed are truly defunct, and one of them plays only 40 miles away from the "defunct" team listed, although the NHL does not recognize the continuation. The Whalers are now the Hurricanes. The Nordiques are now the Avalanche. The Jets are now the Coyotes. The Scouts are now the Devils. The North Stars are now the Stars And of course, my favorite: The Seals are now the Sharks. Yes, I know that last one brought about a "huh?" reaction from most of you. But here's the thing. The Seals were part of the 1967 expansion, and in 1974 the Seals' owner tried to sell the dreadful team, but there were no takers. The NHL eventually took over. They were nearly moved to Denver (and Pittsburgh to Seattle) but both arrangements fell through. In 1975 Melvin Swig, along with minority owners George and Gordon Gund, purchased the team and convinced Swig and the NHL to allow them to move them to their hometown of Cleveland, and the name 'Barons' was chosen because of the city's old AHL team. The Gunds eventually bought Swig out. After two years, in 1978, the Gunds were allowed to purchase the troubled Minnesota North Stars and merge the two teams. Flash forward twelve years. George and Gordon Gund threaten to move the North Stars to the Bay Area. A compromise is reached where the Gunds will receive an expansion team in the Bay Area and new owners will take over the Stars, with the two teams participating in a dispersal draft. So the short story: Gunds part of ownership of Seals. Seals move from Oakland to Cleveland as Barons, then merge with North Stars through Gunds purchasing North Stars. North Stars split into North Stars and Sharks, with Gunds owning Sharks and giving up ownership of North Stars. If only it were an officially recognized history. As for the topic? The following is a list of the TRULY defunct teams that have been in the NHL. As the NHL considers the Seals/Barons defunct, I'll include them: Brooklyn/New York Americans Montreal Maroons Montreal Wanderers Oakland Seals/California Golden Seals/California Seals/Cleveland Barons Quebec Bulldogs/Hamilton Tigers Ottawa Senators Philadelphia Quakers St. Louis Eagles Now let's trim that list down to cities based on which cities already have teams. Cleveland Barons Quebec Bulldogs Hamilton Tigers Well, looking at those three, the winner is... QUEBEC BULLDOGS!

Yep, whacking your opponent with a stick, slowing him down or tripping him with it, or using it as a weapon by hitting an opponent with the butt-end of the stick or cross-checking him. Yeah, those are horrible and should not be penalties. ALL stick penalties should be called. There should never be "while, he didn't slash him THAT hard" or anything like that where the penalty is let go. In fact, no penalty should ever be let go because "it wasn't that bad" and the player didn't suffer any significant effect. If a guy grabs my arm while I am carrying the puck out of my zone but I just shake him off, he should still be called for interference. The penalties are written down in black and white. It's not "the referee has the discretion to completely ignore the rules if he wishes." It's why "evening up" the calls to make sure teams get equal PPs annoys the piss out of me. If one team commits 9 penalties and the other commits three, then that should be the number called. People say "St. Louis was given the game by the refs because they got 5 PPs and Toronto only had 1" even if St. Louis played a very disciplined game and Toronto was playing to see who could hurt a Blues player first.

And you have, conclusively, proven you know jack squat about hockey. All of those guys are defensively solid players, first of all. But the big thing is, unless you think that the NHL is going to suddenly be the 80s again next year, 35-45 point performances would land them squarely in the 91st-180th range of forwards for points. That's second-line output (30 teams x 3 forwards = 90 forwards) so what you're saying is that all four of those guys are solid two-way second-line players. And they are all fighting for third and fourth line spots on the Wings because there are players who are considerably better than them up higher on the depth chart. Sounds like the Wings are going to be pretty stacked! Seriously, though, all four of those guys are solid two-way third-liners at this point. All of them should score maybe 20-25 points...Eaves could potentially get more depending on how the lines go and if Bertuzzi is re-signed, as Eaves is the most likely to be used in an offensive role (Cleary/Filppula/Eaves or Bertuzzi/Filppula/Eaves for the third line?) And BTW everyone, Cleary is not overpaid for his contract. You feel that way because he had a great playoff and hasn't lived up to that performance in the regular season. Just like he "wasn't as good this year" as he was last year. Here's some facts: Cleary scored at approximately the same points per game this season as last, and scored more goals. Cleary scored almost as many points this season as he did the season before he signed the deal. Cleary's production and his performance as a defensive specialist are at least worth $2.8m compared to contracts around the league for other players. If McDonalds' supervisor makes $10/hr and that seems like too much for the job, but BK's makes $12/hr, even though he's not as good as the one at McDonald's, is the McD's supervisor overpaid?

Huh? Since when has Hudler been either of these? To quote to movie Forrest Gump, "Are you stupid or something?" If anything, Hudler is an overachiever just heading into his prime, the exact opposite of what you listed.

I pointed out that Hudler would be a top line center on a lot of teams. Despite the absolute negative response that I have received on that opinion, everyone seems willing to admit that Hudler would be the top line center on about half the teams in the league, give or take. Maybe that doesn't make him a superstar. But if you look back to my original post, it said 'put Hudler in the right position with the right wingers' so it's not just saying 'give him a ton of ice time. Joe Thornton and Marc Savard are very good centers; but their effectiveness is very limited if they don't have a finishing winger on their line. A Maltby/Thornton/May line would be physically intimidating, but would score maybe 20 goals. Same if you put Savard in the middle. Those two are prime examples of centers who are incredibly effective playmakers who are shut down if you take away their finisher. Give Hudler a #1 line with Ryan Clowe and Bobby Ryan. That's a 100+ goal line. Hudler might be overrated by this, but he would be considered one of the top centers in the league centering that line.

FORWARDS Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Jiri Hudler ($2.875m) Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / * Tomas Holmstrom ($2.500m) * Todd Bertuzzi ($2.500m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / * Patrick Eaves ($0.550m) * Justin Abdelkader ($1.000m) / * Darren Helm ($0.675m) / * Drew Miller ($0.600m) Kris Draper ($1.583m) Mattias Ritola ($0.517m) DEFENSEMEN Nicklas Lidstrom ($6.200m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) / Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) / Brad Stuart ($3.750m) * Derek Meech ($0.55m) GOALTENDERS Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) / Chris Osgood ($1.417m) PAYROLL: $58.755m CAP ROOM: $0.045m This roster was compiled retaining both Bertuzzi and Holmstrom at the maximum $2.5m that they should possibly receive; Homer because he supposedly wants a raise over his $2.25m from last year and Bert because he had a decent season and, including his buyout, received $3m last year. RFAs are signed to lowest mathematically reasonable amounts above minimum qualifying offers. With a healthy Franzen and the return of Hudler, the Wings should see an increase of offense to around 270 goals for next season. As for defense, players like Eaves, Miller, Helm, and Abdelkader provide a solid, physical brand of defense and strong PK as well. With the defensive pairings shaken up a bit to provide stronger defense across the three pairings, as well as allowing the young players some leeway if they make mistakes.

Keith will next year. Doughty almost certainly will in two years. Green shouldn't have even received a single Norris vote as he's not one of the league's ten or fifteen best D-men. And the first two are RFA deals; Lidstrom is a UFA deal. Think about that for a second. An RFA can cost up to twice as much as a UFA for basically the same player sometimes.

I didn't say he would be a better overall player than any of them. I was challenged with the point that centers are supposed to be extremely responsible defensively. I used them as examples of top-line centers who range from slightly above average to well below average defensively. Am I wrong? Do those players not fall into that category? As I said, put Hudler between two physical wingers who have capable shots and you'll have a very good line. I guess my question is... how can you consider guys like Scott Gomez or Antoine Vermette top line centers if you can't consider Hudler one?