eva unit zero

This was the feed I had of the fight.

So in other words, you're saying that our "elite sniper" Franzen is a 35-40 point winger without an elite center? Funny, that is about what Hudler put up last year in a "horrible season" playing a lot of the year with below average (offensively) players. What exactly is the answer? Is Franzen a creature of circumstance? If Hudler scores 60+, was it all Dats/Z?

So you think Franzen is significantly overpaid then? He got $4m for under 60 points. Contracts have inflated by at least 20%. Hudler getting $5m for 80 points at a younger age would be less of an overpayment.

Hudler has more points without Datsyuk than with Datsyuk, and leads the team in scoring. Yes it's three games, but it's fun to say after last year and the summer.

Hudler is better than average defensively. He looks bad defensively because the Wings have guys like Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula, Helm, Eaves, Cleary, Emmerton, Miller, and Abdelkader on the roster. On a team less focused on two-way play, Hudler would look great defensively. Yep, Hudler is the reason the team hasn't made it past the 2nd round in two years. You realize of course by saying that, you are crediting him with being a big factor in 2008 an 2009. Which, in turn, suggests that the team SHOULDN'T trade him because he looks to be back to his pre-KHL self this year. Not to mention stronger and faster than he's ever been. LW defined a future value for Hudler based on a performance we haven't yet seen. We don't know what he will be worth in October 2012. And as I have previously detailed, Hudler's performance (even last year) outpaces his contract based on forward contracts. He is not currently overpaid based on his performance last year and certainly not based on his performance over the last two to four seasons he has played. Shocking revelation, I know. He could be considered overpaid compared to other Wings forwards based on performance last year, perhaps, but that's not a fair comparison. Miller was claimed on waivers after having been previously waived the same season, Eaves was a tryout, Abdelkader and Helm were first year off their ELC, Franzen signed a lifetime deal with a much lower cap hit than it would have at short term, Flip and Cleary signed longer term deals than Hudler (Cleary also got the NTC), Bertuzzi and Homer are older one-dimensional wingers declining quickly. Placing Hudler's value at $1.2m for next summer is ridiculous, especially when this season is 2 games old. Rafalski was one of the team's fastest guys and was a big part of the offense. Maybe not as great defensively as he used to be, but still among the top five or ten best offensive defensemen in hockey. Maltby and Draper were healthy scratches half of the time. Not the same thing.

How do you know? Emmerton could score 70 points this season and win the Calder. He has three points in four NHL games in limited duty, and has looked solid at both ends in those games. Hmm. Miller, Emmerton, or Mursak... who is showing the least potential? Miller already has that one locked up. He's four years older and at best a marginally better player. He's not fast like Mursak and can't play center like Emmerton. And just to be complete, he's not fast like Eaves and doesn't have Eaves' shot, either. Brunnstrom is another argument. He could be very good, or a complete waste of a contract. His career scoring so far is pretty decent; not too far below Hudler and Filppula for a player who is about the same age. The big question is about his issues over the past couple of seasons and whether his rookie year was a fluke. Hudler is one of the best playmakers on the team, so he shouldn't have issues with a skilled goal scorer or playmaker. His best season, however, did come when he was not the primary playmaker on his line all season. Last year he was the playmaker, even on the Datsyuk line. The solution is simple. Trade Hudler/Flip and Ericsson/Kindl plus maybe a first for Bogosian. I heard they are shopping him.

So if Hudler scores 80 points this year and then signs a 5 year, 16m deal with the Wings, you'd be unhappy? That's insane.

And stop stealing my third line.

Washington in the southeast makes geographical sense from the perspective of "these are the 15 furthest east teams" x "these are the 5 furthest south teams" Who would you suggest instead? Pittsburgh? Philadelphia? Any other team in the East is either further north or in the division. As for the realignment; Detroit to the Northeast, Buffalo to the Atlantic, Pittsburgh to the Southeast. I'd use Boston instead of Buffalo but that cuts into the BOS/MTL rivalry.

Ruutu? He's almost 29 and has had severe back and ankle injuries. His top production levels are no better than what Hudler has put up or what Filppula is expected to put up, and he did it playing much better time and opportunity. Hudler is younger, much more durable, knows the system, and has developed chemistry with the guys on the team. Gaustad? We're going to wait for Hudler's trade value to increase so we can trade him for a fourth line faceoff specialist? If Holland wanted a fourth line faceoff specialist, Ryan Johnson would be on the team. Moen and Chimera are equally ridiculous suggestions. It would hardly take a productive top-six forward to get those guys, although I know many here wouldn't trade them for anything less than that. Hemsky is highly skilled but very fragile. He also has had attitude issues, so it's unlikely at best. Umberger. Now we finally have a realistic suggestion. Except he's three years older and plays for a division rival. On the Wings, he realistically would fit in as a third liner, with Homer or Bert moving into Hudler's vacated top-six spot. Which Kostitsyn are you talking about? Either would be decent as supplemental scoring, but neither would be a good replacement for Hudler.

A young top-4 defenseman to replace Lidstrom? A top-1 defenseman is more like it. So you trade Hudler and Kindl or Ericsson for a guy like that? Okay, who do you think fills that role AND is available via trade. Suter, maybe? Yandle, possibly? Or perhaps we could be really lucky and get Enstrom? I don't see any of Nashville, Phoenix, or Winnipeg giving up those guys for Hudler and Kindl/Ericsson, unless the defenseman we trade is playing solid top-four quality this season. And if Ericsson and Kindl do that, and Hudler plays well, why trade them for Suter when he can be signed in July?

Mursak will be back around the All-Star break. What happens at that point. Waive Emmerton or Miller so that Nyquist stays up? Move Nyquist back to Grand Rapids? Waive Mursak? You, and the other "Nyquist now!" posters, have yet to answer this question.

Giroux didn't initiate contact, or try to sell a call. Giroux was trying to get around Chara and get the puck, or at least prevent Chara from getting it. He stopped because he expected to be fighting with Chara for the puck and was positioning his body in an advantageous spot. Chara simply gave him the Ace Bailey.

No; that is "I would have fallen out of my chair, and then bitched to the mods when they didn't do anything about it."

If Doan has another year like last year, and Hudler plays like he did from the end of Dec 2010 to the end of February 2011 (26 points in 28 games), he could bring back Doan.

So where is Mursak? He won't clear waivers. Commodore might due to his combination of age, skill, contract, and having started the year on injury. The fact is Smith and Nyquist likely won't be regulars this year unless they replace someone who really stinks it up. Smith won't jump Kindl in line, and Kindl is currently outplaying Ericsson. And Nyquist has a few guys in line ahead of him simply due to waiver issues. Your roster has the Wings benching Homer and Emmerton, and waiving Brunnstrom and Mursak JUST to put Nyquist in the lineup.

I would say yes with the suspension. A high stick is two minutes. Drawing blood is an additional two. This was immediately after a faceoff, away from the play, using the stick as a weapon.

NP. If I was offended I would have bitched you out and reported you. It's the internet FFS.

I can't help but feel like I'm being mocked. Just in the gut, you know...

Leino is older and significantly more expensive. The only advantages he has are that he just signed a contract, and that he's slightly larger. He has already shown difficulty with Detroit's system, and does not work nearly as hard as Hudler. He doesn't use his advantage in size to play a more physical game; if anything Hudler is the more physical player. But with his size advantage, Buffalo would want Hudler to provide more offense. Meaning that it would be a downgrade in current player quality, for an older, more expensive player. No thanks.

Gretzky and Nicholls. Gretzky and Kurri. Gretzky and Coffey. Gretzky and Robitaille. Gretzky and Messier Lemieux and Jagr. Lemieux and Brown. LaFontaine and Mogilny. Hull and Oates. Bossy and Trottier. Esposito and Orr. Beatty and Clooney. Stastny and Goulet. Dionne and Simmer. Dionne and Taylor.

And people still don't understand. Hudler isn't a tradeable asset regardless of how he's playing. 90 points or 10 points. Why? Because what the team gets back for him if he can be traded for something good will never match up to what he is bringing the team. If he's playing poorly, he's not going to bring back anything of value at all; perhaps just a minor leaguer the team would waive and then lose via UFA (think Tollefson) or something. Filppula is more likely to be traded, and even then in no case is Flip going to be shopped unless he looks like he is going to lose his position in the top six to Helm. It's not likely he'll be traded unless the Wings get a great return on the deal.

Five centers. That's what has made the Wings such a versatile and skilled team over the years. They find skilled centers capable of also playing the wing, and stack the roster with them. Of the forwards who are on this year's team, it breaks down as such for natural wingers: Brunnstrom and Mursak are yet to play. Holmstrom and Eaves have played one game. Cleary, Bertuzzi, and Miller have each played both games. The rest of the lineup is centers. So of the 14 healthy forwards, the bottom three - based on scratches - are wingers. That leaves four wingers in the top 11, compared to seven centers. Take a look at other successful teams around the league and who their best players are. Pittsburgh; top three forwards are centers. Chicago, four of their top five are natural centers. Tampa Bay's big three are all natural centers.

What I think would be nice in a lines thread, more than just "post lines, argue about why your lines are the best" is maybe some reasonable discussion on the lineup. For one, blueadams, the lineup you suggested isn't going to happen. Emmerton has been rock solid so far and isn't going to Grand Rapids, even if he is waived. He likely won't be waived. Commodore is still injured, so we don't even know how he'll fit into the team. But we do know that Commie is a stay-at-home player while Smith is an offensive defenseman. The Wings need more guys like Commie right now. And even if that did happen, Kindl has outplayed Ericsson by a wide margin. Which leaves a defenseman who just signed a $3m+ deal in the press box while a prospect who could be in Grand Rapids plays. Smith certainly needs to work on parts of his game, and can do that in Grand Rapids. Also, you forgot to include Mursak in your preferred set of lines; he will be back at some point, after all. Ultimately when Mursak returns, one of the team's current skaters will have to be waived or traded. It will almost certainly be a forward, given that the team is carrying 14 and that Mursak is a forward. Which leaves a battle between Emmerton, Miller, Eaves, and Brunnstrom for three roster spots. As it stands, I would like to see the following setup tried out: Hudler/Datsyuk/Bertuzzi Filppula/Zetterberg/Franzen Cleary/Helm/Eaves Holmstrom/Emmerton/Abdelkader

This won't be the FIRST first time... After all, there are at least four or five first times for everything, right?