norrisnick

Are you including everyone on the team? Because there are about half a dozen better than Fil at hanging on to the puck be it in traffic, open ice, along the boards, or otherwise.

I kinda got hung up on this sentence. Mats Sundin the greatest Swedish player in NHL history? Right...

Queens of the Stone Age 'Songs for the Deaf' I'm thoroughly hooked to "The Sky is Fallin'".

Because he doesn't play 60 minutes a night. Look at the number of goals that Kronwall, Stuart, Draper, etc... have been on for. It's staggering.

The '77 Habs are fairly unanimously the greatest team ever assembled. They scored 216 more goals than they allowed. That is obscene. As for strictly Wings... I'd say the '08 team was better than the '02 Wings. But the '50s Wings of Howe, Kelly, Lindsay, Sawchuk, etc... would give the more recent squads a serious run for their money.

Stevens ran into Ray Bourque and Nick Lidstrom in his best seasons. Sorry, Scott they're better than you. And Ludwig was well-known for making a mockery of protective equipment. Strapping goalie pads to your shins doesn't make you Norris caliber. Because Mike Komisarek isn't good enough all-around to warrant consideration. Nor is he better defensively than any of the guys that have won the Norris trophy of late. I might give him Rob Blake, but that Norris should have gone to Lidstrom anyway.

If you aren't 100% you're moving one way or the other. Either you go to the proverbial 110% or you go below 100%. Another word for going below 100% (or whatever starting point) is to decline. You may have not used the word decline, but when you state that a player is playing below usual standards you have to decline to get there. Make sense yet? Consider me bemused. No, I'm merely countering your denial of stating that Lidstrom is in or has declined. The poking holes comes from noting that Lidstrom is playing at a level that has put him at the top of the league. He's dominant and people seem unwilling to notice. The hometown boy/NTC is a killer in this situation. Why couldn't he have been from Boise?

No argument, just a personal observation. I think analysts and posters have been falling all over themselves all season long trying to declare the end of Lidstrom's stranglehold on the Norris and defensive position. He had an inauspicious November which coincided with Weber being a PPG player through the first 20-ish games and it became "clear" that Shea was the top dog and Lidstrom had declined. Then Boyle took over the scoring lead for a while. Then the Bruins had a mindboggling stretch where half the team lead the league in +/- so Wideman and Chara were the elite. Now it's Green's turn to be the "front runner". Throughout all of that Nick has been right there. All season long (with the exception of November) he's been the most consistent defenseman, but even that off month is less time being slighly below elite than anyone else. Since November he has 24 points and a +19 in 30 games. That IS his Norris pace. That pace has won him 6 Norris trophies. People have latched on to that November and are desperate to find mistakes so their analysis of Nick not deserving the Norris remains true. The problem is that even if he's making more mistakes than he made earlier in his career, he's still making far less than anyone else out there. Nick is in decline. He's not as perfect as he was pre-lockout. But as I've posted elsewhere, why does Nick have to continuously lap the field in order to be seen as the best? The hockey world is desperate to annoint a less boring defenseman as the king of the blueline. I say good luck!

Unless he's above 100% you have to decline in order not to be 100%. Which is it? Consider me reassured. Personally hurt? Not at all. You seem the one that doesn't like me poking holes in your "analysis." If it's one thing Raf does, it's create offense. For both teams. $6M is way too much for a defenseman that can't defend.

All-around is exactly right. But defense comes first. I'll concede that Green's offensive ability is on par with Lidstrom's defensive ability. But Nick's offense is significantly better than Green's defense. All-around, Nick is better.

How does one play at less than 100% (as you state in the very next sentence and througout the thread) if you don't decline? Who said anything about being a liability? (I love this game). Yet you can't help yourself in tying the two together. Funny that. I'd be exceedingly pleased if he managed to unload Rafalski for someone that can play defense. And depending on who it is, I might be as well if Kronwall gets moved. That said it would shock the hell out of me. That isn't Kenny's style.

He is not very good defensively. He's usually noted for being at times completely braindead with his decision making. He's getting away with it this year.

Yes. Head and shoulders like usual? No. There is no handicapping going on. Nick doesn't have to lap the field to be the best.

Disingenuous... liar. Same difference.

Can you at least point to something, anything, tangible out on the ice that would suggest to you that he's not 100%? He's pokechecking, shooting, passing. Most of the rest of the defensive roster has been a giant sieve, but Nick has been fine barring an uncharacteristically low performing November. Put his November on par with the rest of his season and he's on pace for a 65 point season and +50-something. Obviously in decline... So the question stands, if you're worried about Nik why is it Nick that is hurting?

Nik has tried laying the body a ton, but he always seems to fly right by them in the neutral zone and gives up a rush against. You start swinging and missing like that and you're gonna tighten up and the whole thing snowballs. Once he gets his first good lick in, more should follow.

Liar. Lidstrom is playing Norris-caliber defense. He had an iffy November, but he's more than fine now. Had he not skipped the All-Star game and mentioned his elbow, this thread wouldn't exist.

He'd do it if Downey were on the ice. Fighters don't scare the players that dish out questionable hits.

Yes. Dominating. He's always been a slow starter and this season it's been compounded by a short summer and adjusting to a visor. But he's been rock solid compared to ALL other defensemen, not just 90%. I don't think Wing fans realize how many mistakes the top D make around the league. No one in league history has ever been as flawless as Nick has been throughout his career. Others may have been more dominating in one facet or another, but in terms of mistake free positional defense no one touches Nick. So a slow start or a slump looks glaring in comparison, but not if you compare him to others around the league. Nick would also tell you that he doesn't consider himself the best of his generation or one of the top 3-4 all time either. He's in pain and I'm sure he's playing through it or compensating one way or another, but right now it's not holding him back in the least.

Nick is playing absolutely dominating D right now. He may have pain in his elbow, but it isn't affecting his game.

Game 5 against the Ducks and Game 5 against the Penguins were both lost because Franzen, with the puck on his forehand, couldn't clear the zone in the final minute of regulation.

And on the other hand Hudler can create scoring chances for others better than anyone but Pavel. Hudler is ridiculously hard to knock off the puck. Especially for a guy his size. If he were Franzen's size he'd be Jagr.

They have to make a qualifying offer to retain his rights as a restricted free agent. That will get done as it's either the old salary, or the old salary +5% or +10% depending on some scale but I don't know what the scale is. This is one of those formality type things that will get done. Similar to the "bonafide" offer rule for retaining draftees. The first year after getting drafted you have to make an offer to the prospect to keep their rights for another year. Again this is usually one of those formality type things that happens 99.9% of the time. The only time I can remember a team not making a bonafide offer after the first year is the Wings recently with Tyler Haskins. They cut him loose, which is weird because they would have had another year before having to make a decision. Not sure why but whatever.

I was thinking he could be a Modin type player. Ask around. I beat the hell out of that argument a time or two on various boards with people who thought he'd never amount to that much and as of right now he's more. Hossa is the better player. No one denies that. The cap is a *****.

Top 3 are Lidstrom, Chara, Keith. Whoever finishes the best should win this. I hope the voters are smarter than giving the Norris to a forward, and not even a two-way forward. Green isn't a better defensive player than Alex Semin.