norrisnick

Cleary wasn't wearing a visor. He was wearing a chin-guard. He couldn't see the puck at his feet. That's not going to be a problem with a visor.

Why?

You are 100% correct. The number of fights is not a good reflection of toughness.

So being at worst the 2nd or 3rd most important player of a Red Wing era that won 3 Cups and was the most successful NHL franchise for over a decade. And that era is being continued to this day. Without the work that Fedorov put into this franchise, the Wings aren't where they are today. That isn't enough? Stevie, Nick, and Sergei are the three pillars (along with Bowman) that put the Wings at the elite tier of the NHL. Not honoring that would just be petty.

The room in question was not the lockerroom but the room containing Holland, Devellano, Bowman, Nill, Yzerman, and Babcock. And Kenny did make an offer for Fedorov. Holland just didn't agree to go all the way up to what Columbus was asking from the Wings. If Fedorov's number shouldn't be in the rafters, take everyone but Howe and Stevie down.

Link?

And precious Pasha?

I wonder what you think about our "#1" center getting fewer minutes than our "#2" center?

Granted this quote is about the PP, but the same premise works for ES as well. "We've got different people now. That's one of the things we're working out. It would be very easy for me to go Z, Pav and Homer. I think it's important that we stay with the process we're in. I think we'll be a better hockey club long term if we continue to go the way we're going."

Ok. In the fairy tale where Z and Pavel are together on a line... you slap Babcock upside the head and break them up. If that won't work I'd prefer Franzen taking the draws and shifting to the wing with Hudler in the middle. Hudler can properly distribute the puck. Much better than Filppula can.

Simple. You don't put Z and Pavel back together. Whatever else happens you don't deviate from Z, Pavel, Fil, and Draper as our 4 centers. Our center depth along with our defensive depth is what will carry our team. Don't waste it.

Canucks at Flames is scrum after scrum w/ every whistle. Iginla already got a solid TKO win over Mitchell. Solid left hook on the chin and Willie buckled and covered up. Amazingly Willie got Jarome to take the lid off during the square-off. Pretty good tilt.

Sorry Mrs. Filppula. We'll behave.

And Nick still missed 6 games.

I'd take zero points if he could skate, forecheck, play some defense or even some PK. But he can't do anything.

Mattias Ritola also suited up for a couple games. Can't win without Mattias Ritola playing a couple. He better get a call up or we don't repeat... Correlation =/= causation.

Then call out uk. I'm not anti-fighter. I'm pro-hockey player. Find a player that can play and fight. I have no issues whatsoever. Keep bringing up scrubs like Norton, Downey, washed up McCarty and I'll argue against their placement on the Wings until my fingers cramp up. As for Yzerman and Lidstrom quotes... what are they going to say when asked about a teammate and the role they provide? Is either one going to say that Downey is worthless? Of course not. Ask either one straight up whether Downey makes the team better than Helm and see if they manage to come up with a straight answer or if they squirm their way out of that question without possibly slighting either player. As for Fedorov/Yzerman... depends on what you're asking. Career as a whole? Yzerman. Best all around player? Fedorov. Who was better when both were on the Wings? Fedorov. Heart and soul of the team? Yzerman. Most important for the three Cups they won together? Equal. Neither one wins without the other. As for Kovalev? Second coming is a bit strong. But you can't deny that he's managed one hell of a resurgence in Montreal. And at the time I believe it was a Shanahan or Kovalev debate or something and in that situation it's Alexei in a rout.

If the Pens outplayed us for a meaningful portion of that Finals series they likely could make semi-legitimate arguments that they were a bad bounce or two away. But that wasn't the case. Wasn't uk's point that if we "would have" had an enforcer playing 50 meaningless games in the regular season that we'd have won the Cup?

1. A freak injury to Kronwall on a nothing check. 2. A blown call and then blown clearing attempt. 3. Dom digging a hole in the 1st period.

You have to imagine that Z and Franzen stick after what they did in the playoffs. Not to mention that it would tie in perfectly with Babcock's strategy of keeping his ES units alligned for special teams play. Then Pavel and Hossa would be a ridiculous PK tandem as well. Fil and Cleary, Draper and Maltby. Every line has a built in PK pairing.

Wow, crazy lines... Who could have predicted those lines?!?

Exactly it's a pipe dream, but it beats the hell out of dreaming about picking up a guy on par with Downey off of waivers. If you're going to dream, dream big. An enforcer does have to be talented to play on this team. What lesser teams do with their rosters is their business. One of the biggest reasons the Wings are great is because to a man they fit into the system they try to play. If you don't fit in, you're not going to be effective and you're not going to stick around very long. If you can't fight. Protect yourself. You have to be borderline retarded to try fight some guy that significantly outclasses you.

Why scrape the bottom of the barrel for an enforcer? That's what I don't get in these spats. The reason Downey is getting sent down is because he's absolutely worthless out on the ice. You should be hoping and praying for a good player that can also play the enforcing role (Ferguson, Robinson, Gillies, hell even Probert or a mid 90s McCarty, etc...).

Carolina had tougher guys playing in that cup run than we did. Downey's 50 games in the regular season are irrelevant. We dominated the regular season in '06 setting an all-time record for fewest fights.

Babcock has addressed the '06 season and what happened to that team. Rather than the 82 game season being a grind, it came too easy. No adversity, just steamrolling over the competition and winning teams that by all rights should have lost. Had nothing to do with an enforcer. They ran into a team that had been playing playoff hockey for months and the Wings weren't ready. Babcock has made great strides since in making sure the team is ready to compete. You have Nick and Z saying complimentary things about a teammate. Shocking. Ask them flat out whether they believe Downey or Helm make the team better and see if you can get a straight answer. EDIT - Again, not a debate. Just random posting of viewpoints...