norrisnick

Then why isn't Lebda an elite shot-blocker? He's been playing with Cheli or Lilly for 3 years now. You'd think he'd have picked up such an easy ability in 3 years...

I didn't say he played the 2nd most on the PK. I said he is our 2nd best PK defenseman. The only guy Lilly is competing with that has realistic top 4 potential is Ericsson and he, like Jimmy and Helm, is going to GR even if he ends up playing better than the guys who will populate the 3rd pairing. If Lebda is a top 4 guy, his team is going nowhere. He simply doesn't do anything well. He's fast. That's it. He isn't better defensive or offensively than any of our other defensive options.

You don't "learn" shot blocking any more than you learn "hands". You either have it or you don't otherwise every single defenseman out there would be an elite shot-blocker and that just isn't the case.. Lilly was a soccer goalie growing up. The "get in front of whatever it is flying toward you" mentality is very deeply ingrained. It's second nature to him. Q might be a natural as well, but there's no way in hell he goes from a non-shot blocker to better than Lilly in half a season. It just doesn't work like that. You may as well say "let Downey work on his deking skills and by mid season they'll be comparing him to Datsyuk" and we all know how likely that is.

And Chelios has repeatedly stated that that knee is never going to get any better. Especially at his age. He's simply gotten to the point where he can't overcome his limitations. He doesn't win a single physical battle anymore. He doesn't win any foot races (even the really short ones) anymore. He doesn't have the time to put the puck where he wants to anymore. He knows exactly what he should be doing, but his body simply won't let him. He should get out while he can still walk.

I don't. After the '07 playoffs, sure. But not after the '08 playoffs. Him, Mac, and Dom made up the unholy trifecta of suck.

No one that Lilly is competing with is close to as good as he is on the PK. He's our 2nd best PK defenseman. Sammy isn't the 2nd best forward at anything. Lilly is far more important than Sammy and say Lebda.

On the PK he absolutely is substantially better than the rest of the logjam guys. There's a reason Lilly is making $1.25M and the rest are barely minimum wage guys. Lilly has a substantial positive trait. Lebda is fast, but even with all that speed he doesn't do anything better than Lilly. No, but if Lilly doesn't play Cheli almost has to which is something I'm sure Babcock would like to avoid.

It can't be used against my argument because it is my argument. Maybe you can work it out during your nap...

I'm not picking and choosing. I'm including the past 3 seasons of regular season play because looking at one season where he played a solid chunk of it while injured would be beyond shortsighted. If you want to go back even further that's fine too. Marian has averaged 80 points per season over the last 8 seasons. And how am I ignoring his previous playoffs? And points aren't the only way to be visible (unless your name is Brett Hull). Hossa and Alfredsson have long gotten a bum rap (starting with the Toronto media/fanbase and spreading like the plague from there) for their playoff play. They were caught trying to play ultra conservative hockey for Martin but kept getting torpedoed by Lalime cracking under pressure. Long story short, if Marian is a s***ty playoff player so are Datsyuk and Zetterberg. I highly doubt you'd be willing to make that argument. Hossa is every bit as good as the twins. You'll see.

If Marian is here three years, he'll blow those totals out of the water. Hossa had 100 and 92 points the previous two seasons before this most recent one (the first time Marian had a somewhat significant injury in his NHL career). Marian has 57pts in his last 61 playoff games. If you think that's bad, then I'd hate to think what you'd say about Hull's 55 points over his last 72 playoff games...

The reasons you give and the conclusion you arrive at don't match. Filppula is far better suited for a checking line role than a scoring line role. Hudler is significantly better offensively, which is why he was on the 2nd PP unit and Fil got scrap minutes here and there on the man advantage.

If Hudler gets 65 points on that line Z is up in the 90s or above.

If Hudler signs a 5 year deal, yes he will be making as much as Filppula. And as an interesting tidbit, Fil is only making $2M this season. His contract doesn't have a flat rate. But in the end it doesn't matter. Whether he's getting $1M/yr or $5M/yr Babcock needs to use him how he'll help the Wings the most. And that's centering the 3rd line.

Z and his tiny contract should be a 3rd liner then, right? Paychecks should never be making your coaching decisions.

Stuart had 4:47 of PP time in the Finals compared to Sammy's 17:13. And 3:01 of Brad's PP time came in game 2. Game 1 - :58 - 2:16 Game 2 - 3:01 - 3:40 Game 3 - :01 - 4:30 Game 4 - :21 - 1:55 Game 5 - :11 - 3:41 Game 6 - :15 - 1:11

Hudler is a Selke winner compared to Holmstrom who happens to be sitting pretty on the 1st line.

Holland did not spend $6M/yr for a right-handed pointman to play on the 2nd PP unit. Righty/lefty is incredibly important for the way we want to operate our powerplays. Back when we had Schneider all we could really do is bomb away. With Raf the overall puckmovement is unbelievable out there. Babcock should, and likely will, run his ES 5-man units out there for powerplays. It just makes perfect sense to do so as talent wise they're each as good as most 1st units out there.

You talking about Samuelsson? Because you certainly can't be talking about Filppula who set a career high in assists last season with 17. Fil, like Cleary and Samuelsson, is a 2nd/3rd line tweener. Can play on a 2nd line in a pinch or on a two-way checking line. The three of them combined make a great 3rd line but would be a weak 2nd. Thankfully on the Wings they'll be a 3rd.

Babcock set up the lines exactly how I envisioned the PP units well over a month ago. Homer - Pavel - Hossa Nick - Raf Franzen - Zetterberg - Hudler Kronwall - Samuelsson/Stuart By using his ES 5-man units as PP units there will never bee the awkward post special teams shifts where one guy on a line is gassed and the rest is fresh with the lone exception of Samuelsson.

The other 29 teams...

Had to look up this song from the GM commerical. Absolutely beautiful voice/song.

By the time Q got into the lineup Nick, Raf, Kronner, and Cheli were out.