norrisnick

And you've consistently failed to address the recent Wings. Are they not part of hockey history? They've very clearly marginalized the use of enforcers ever since Bowman came on board in the early 90s. Yet we're the most successful NHL franchise BY FAR since then. The Wings are soft. The whole hockey world knows this. Yet we just won the Cup and are the prohibitive favorites to win against next year. Strange that...

Let them think the Wings are soft. They won't know what hit them.

Ever hear of Bob Gainey? First ballot HOF forward. His career spanned the highest scoring era ever (mid 70s through the 80s). He never once hit 50 points. 1160GP - 239G - 262A - 501P He was routinely doubled up in points by defensemen of his era. Go to any hockey board you like and ask if Sergei Fedorov is a HOFer. Apart from maybe an Avs board or hockeyfights, I'm guessing the answer will be overwhelmingly, yes. If Fedorov is not a HOFer than they really need to reconsider what the HOF is supposed to be.

"The whole hockey world thought the Detroit Red Wings were soft," he said. "I'm numb to that. That rings hollow with me." The "he" in question is Ken Holland. He doesn't give a rip that people think the Wings are soft. Toughness is found between the ears. Not in your gloves.

This is rich. For years it was nothing but, "the regular season doesn't matter, we have to get tougher for the playoffs, the regular season is euro hockey, we have to get gritty so we can win when it matters, etc... etc... etc..." Now that we've won with the tough guy scratched we need one for the regular season or we're doomed!

Yes, because Brazen has the greatest nickname ever.

Or you know, let guys like Helm and Abdelkader come up and play.

Of course the Wings aren't going to toss a member of their team under the bus. That said not showing up to play against the Blues is more a reflection on the team as a whole (and the coaching staff) than Downey's impact. Hell even that game referenced where a week later with Downey they won 5-0. Well less than a week after that they lost 2-0 to the Blues. Where was Aaron there? Playing but ineffective. Probert was the most feared HW in the league. He could also PLAY the game of hockey. He was an all-star in '88 and set the Wings' single season playoff scoring record that year. Bob had 11 seasons where he outpaced Downey's CAREER point total. No comparison at all.

Then you guys should quit ***** footing around the issue and call it like it is. Downey is not a protector. Downey is a cheerleader. Fun to look at. Boosts morale. But in the end isn't going to win you any games.

Stone. Cold. Lock. Hart. Pearson. 2 Selkes. 3 Cups. Should have won the '97 Conn Smythe. 4 consecutive 20pt playoffs (NHL record). You talk about numbers, but Fedorov was as good defensively as he was offensively. For my money he's in the running for the best two-way forward ever. Were he so inclined he could have won himself a Norris trophy or two. There is no possible argument to be made that keeps Fedorov out of the HOF. And for your second to last comment there about lines. As a Red Wing he was never not the best player on his line. Ever.

How is Downey punching Ian around a bit AFTER he already took Lidstrom out of the lineup protecting him?

Character things? Like wanting to be paid on par with his contribution? Even after the offersheet he was underpaid. He was being lowballed hardcore. The '03 negotiations are the only contract talks I've ever heard of where the offers from management kept shrinking every time they came together. Kenny insulted Fedorov and then pushed him out the door. You want an acrimonious relationship with management? Ted Lindsay?

Standards? So being a cornerstone of 3 Cup wins and an elite player, winning multiple trophies, elite playoff performer, etc... doesn't cut it these days? And when I say cornerstone, I mean just that. Without him we don't win in '97, '98, or '02. He, Lidstrom, and Stevie were the three pillars of those teams. We don't win if any of them were gone. I'd love to hear how that doesn't compare to the other guys up there. So since you don't think he makes the cut, I'd like to know your reasoning on what puts him on the negative side of the line.

I didn't say you did, hence the question. If he isn't deemed worthy, the other three aren't either. So I was wondering whether you'd want them ripped down. Mr. I has a history of doing so.

Who Fedorov?!? He's a stone cold lock for a first ballot entry. No ifs, ands, or buts. It's beyond ridiculous to say he won't get in at all.

So you'd propose we only have 4 numbers up there? #9, #1, #19 and #5? I know Ilitch has a history of unretiring numbers but I doubt he pulls that trick with Ted, Sid, and Fats.

Ullman compares somewhat to Shanahan. Not Fedorov. Sergei is right there with Lindsay, Delvecchio, and Abel in terms of importance to the Wings.

There's a line. I just don't think you like where it's drawn.

Jesus loves you!

Because there is a salary cap and there are better/more important players than him that need contracts next season.

The Habs take their retired/honored numbers out of circulation.

In what other way are the Wings an exception to the rest of the league, Andre?

Why would fabrications upset anyone?

Enh... not really. Fedorov played 1070 games as a Red Wing. Marian played 32 as a Penguin. There shouldn't be nearly the same amount of emotion involved with Hossa and the Pen fans. He was a rental. Fedorov was a cornerstone for over a decade.

Rear-naked in 36. Close though! There's no one better. There has never been anyone better. So explosive. So much power. Amazing when you consider that as Timmy says, he's a "tiny ****" compared to most heavies out there. He's short, pudgy, and only 230. Guys like Rampage and Griffin are bigger.