norrisnick

No kidding. If Nik (and Rick for that matter) actually listened to Fedorov and tried to emulate him they'd be superstars. They have the talent and skills just not an ounce of hockey sense. They don't know how to play without the puck. They don't grasp the concept of giving up the puck in order to get it back in a better position. They may as well not even go out on the ice with regular lines as it doesn't really matter to them. Fedorov actually grasps the concept of a five-man unit out on the ice (as he's played every position) and is just as good without the puck as he is with it. If I were to create a perfect hockey player, Fedorov is about as close to matching the template as it gets.

Yzerman's '02 season was legendary. I will not deny that in any way. But the reason it's mostly non-Wing fans (as you put it) that place Yzerman ahead of Lidstrom is because of Lidstrom's subtle brilliance. A lot of people don't realize just how mind-bogglingly good he is and has been. He was the Wings' 3rd leading scorer in those playoffs, but by FAR the leader defensively. He played more in every situation and was nearly flawless. He matched up against the opposition's best in every round and managed to do so by only taking a single penalty during the entire run. You called him Mr. Invisible but yet that's really not a bad thing for a defenseman. Though he was also involved in the three most pivotal plays of that run. Plays that turned series around (the 2nd round vs the Blues was never in question). He's the one who shattered Cloutier in game 3 of round 1. It was his intitial shot that Patrick couldn't handle and Yzerman shot back into Roy that became the Statue of Liberty play. It was his shot that Hull deflected by Irbe in the waning moments of game 3 that then allowed Igor to play hero in triple OT (Nick played over 52 minutes that night). As it stands any of Lidstrom, Yzerman, and Fedorov could have won that Conn Smythe and it wouldn't have been a decision I would have argued. But flat out stating that any one of them didn't deserve it is just stupid.

Can you troll elsewhere?

You're out of your mind. There are only two parts of this post that come even remotely close to possibly being correct. A. That the trophies don't always go to the right guy. B. That Fedorov was the 2nd best Wing in the '02 Cup run (it's a debatable point at least). Other than that it's crap.

The Red Wings' invite list is out at RWC. http://www.redwingscentral.com/stories/200...23_Tryouts.html This guy sort of stands out from the crowd. Patrik Magnusson, D, 18yo, 6'7", 244lbs, 41GP - 7G -12A -19P - 91PIM - +30 , HV-71 (SWE J-20). I wonder if he's actually any good or he simply rules at the Junior level by being Chara sized. The little blurb in the article says he's strong but doesn't have quick feet. Plus I'm wondering how he's eligible to even attend the camp. I'm fairly certain that for a guy that is still draft eligible, which he is at only 18, you had to have played in a North American league the year before in order to be signed by a team. Though I guess since he's got an invite I was wrong...

Moreau did break himself and take himself out of pretty much the rest of the season by trying to fight Markov later in the game. Chalk up another bonus point for the pro-fighting brigade.

You keep saying defend when you should be saying avenge.

Did you watch that game? Franzen tried to clear the puck on the backhand and didn't get enough of it to lift it over whatever Duck it was that knocked it down. It was sent to Niedermayer and he fluttered a puck off of Lidstrom's stick and over Dom's shoulder to tie the game in the waning seconds of game 5. If Franzen goes to the forehand to power the puck out or gets better lift on the clear, the game is over and there is a stranglehold on the series. You're out of your mind if you don't think we were close to winning that series. On the flipside, if the Sharks clear the puck in game 4 of that series, Filppula can't steal it. Can't feed it to Lang. And Bob doesn't tie the game. And we don't win in OT to tie the series. Hockey, moreso than any other sport, is one that can turn on a dime and the tiniest little play or margin of error can swing the balance from winning to losing. It doesn't have to be seven OT games for a series to be close. If Robitaille doesn't clang that shot off the crossbar in OT of game 1, IMO the Ducks don't win in '03. Let alone sweep us.

Franzen clears the puck with seconds left in regulation of game 5 and Lilly goes from goat to hero (he had the only goal in a 1-0 game and couldn't have giftwrapped that scoring chance for Selanne in OT) and the Wings go from down 2-3 in the series to up 3-2 in the series. That means the Wings either win in 6 or go to a game 7. Inches.

I don't think you are getting it yet. Being perceived as soft from past playoffs has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that the Wings were NOT soft in these most recent playoffs. Not in the least. They gave as good as they got in every single series against what many consider to be three of the biggest/most physical teams in the West. The three teams most picked as the worst possible matchups for the Wings. We got by two of them and came within inches of getting past the Ducks. People can call the Wings soft until they are blue in the face, but that doesn't make it true.

I'm not slow. You just don't have a clue about whatever it is you're babbling on about. Just because you don't realize there are more levels to the Red Wings' organization than just the Red Wings themselves doesn't mean no one else does. One player made great strides in the top development league below the NHL. The other took strides in and out of the penalty box. That's like comparing me to Igor Grigorenko on the basis that neither of us have played a minute for the Wings. Obviously we're the same, right? We'll have a similar impact on the Wings this coming season, yes? You made a stupid comparison and got called out for it. Deal with it. People here aren't anti-fighting. They're simply pro-hockey playing.

I realize career goal numbers are largely a reflection of age. I'm merely stating that age or not, we don't have a team stocked with small/skill/finesse players. Not anymore. I'd argue only three forwards fit that standard. Pavel, Z, and Hudler. Pavel and Z make up for it with elite level skill as well as elite two-way play. Hudler could be argued to have the most skill on the team (he's small, slow, weak, and lazy so he's got to have something, right?). He's also fearless so it's not like he plays a soft game avoiding contact. Then say size. Not grit/toughness as we've got plenty of that. As for lack of scoring, I'm not blaming anyone. Just pointing it out. We do not have a roster stacked with small/skill/finesse players. Not anymore. That is my main point.

I fully expect them to be split up and fully support the notion. And yes, Z is far more effective as a center. When that line went nuts from late December until Z got hurt it was Pavel on the wing and Z in the middle. My argument? I was merely pointing out that YOUR argument works both ways. IE if Sammy was leeching off of Z, what was Cleary doing with Lang?

What? Your calendar is a bit out of date. Just because we don't have a fighter, doesn't mean we don't have a gritty team. In fact we have a far bigger need for skill, up front anyway, than for grit. We no longer have 500-600 goal scorers on 3 of 4 forward lines. In fact we don't even have a 200 goal scorer up front. Lidstrom is the only guy on the team with over 200 career goals. Chelios is the Wings #2 goal scorer. Want to guess which Wings forward has the most career goals? Dallas flippin Drake. Then Homer. Then Draper. Then Maltby. Finally Z and Pavel. The guy I've got pegged to be our 3rd highest goal scorer this coming season has a whopping 16 goals to his name. The Wings are filled with grinders and potential up front with only Z and Pavel as true bonafide etched in stone top 6 scorers. A lot of people need to revise their image of the Red Wings. Puck possession still rules the day, but this "all skill no grit" business is completely out of touch with reality. EDIT - I realize career goals is an odd way to look at our scoring situation, but I wanted to paint a picture that would get noticed. The people we are looking to for offense really don't have a history of scoring NHL goals. The projected top 6 forwards (that aren't Z and Pavel) have 155, 56, 22, and 16 career goals. I'll add in 0 for the wildcard in Grigorenko.

The Wings were literally a bounce or two away from advancing to the Finals and at that point anything is possible. Are you going to tell me that not having a fighter on the team is what dictated those bounces to go the other way? The Wings didn't have a fighter on their team, yet they were perfectly capable of winning it all. Your level of "proof" is about as solid as the claims that since it hasn't yet happened a European led team can never win the Cup.

Wow... I've tried for a while now to pinpoint all the horribly wrong things of this post, but I've given up. So I'll just say this. No. Just... no. Only part of the post I agree with. What fight did he stay on his skates long enough to win? Or was it one of those cases where he fell on the other guy and the hockeyfights.com noobs gave him the win for it? And getting into a meaningless fight during your first shift, and not showing particularly well, sets no tone whatsoever. Plus didn't his loss to Peters lead to a goal against on the very next shift? Or am I thinking of a different game? Great timing, Champ!! Either way, Meech is a prospect that was re-signed. Norton is an AHL 4thliner/3rd pairing guy that lost his job to noted pugilist Jiri Hudler. I don't quite understand how Norton got dragged into this discussion.

Those two put up points in the first three games of the series. Nothing in games 4 and 5. Then when reunited late in game 6, they combined for 3 goals in the 3rd. That series was merely an exercise in wasted opportunities, but it wasn't a case of being shut down or dominated. Not by any stretch of the imagination. The Ducks should feel very lucky they advanced.

I don't have a beef with Lebda. I just don't think he's anything special. He's the Wings' best skater. I"ll give him that. But apart from that, there is really nothing to his game. He's average at best at pretty much everything else. The reason he might appear better than Kronwall is because he's being sheltered. He doesn't play the minutes or the types of situations Kronwall has played in. Were Lebda to be playing 20+ minutes in all situations he wouldn't look nearly as sick. He just doesn't have the game for it.

I said should be. Meech just spent a full season in GR as their #1 defenseman. Lebda was never much higher than the Griffins' 5th. Whether Derek manages to apply that to the NHL we'll see (not saying he'll ever be a #1 but that he can translate his play in general). Lebda is an anomoly in the sense he's performing better in the NHL than he has in the AHL. I have a feeling being paired with Chelios might have something to do with it.

Meech should be a better defenseman than Lebda has been. Derek is better positionally/defensively and a better puck mover. Lebda has the wheels, but not much else to his credit. Hope he, as well as Kindl, Ericsson, and Quincey, get a legitimate shot at a roster spot. Not the token, yeah we gave the kids a shot, but this guy was here last year so he'll be here again.

Hudler will be on the 2nd (or 1st) line as well. Have you looked at our roster lately? Babcock outlined our top 6ers as Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Holmstrom, Samuelsson, Hudler, and Franzen (Grigorenko being the wildcard). We don't have elite scorers falling out of our asses anymore. No one does, or if they do, they have no defense or goaltending to speak of. The Wings are being built from the blueline out. And Filppula's advanced defensive abilities is going to see him play more of a two-way role until he gets the confidence to hone his offense. Not to mention that guys that can score in a checking role are just as valuable, if not morseo, than 2nd liners that can only score. That's what made our Grindline so deadly come playoff time (and their icetime reflected that, during the '02 Cup run they were our 2nd line).

Cleary is better defensively. Thus he's a checking line player on the checking line with Draper and Filppula. What's so hard to comprehend here? Teams have roles that need filled and players fill them. Sammy does his thing on the 2nd line and 2nd PP unit and Cleary does his thing on the 3rd line and 2nd PK unit. If either player were better they would be higher up on the depth chart. That is provided they didn't price themselves off the team.

He's a top 6 player by virtue of there being a salary cap. When healthy he's a 20/20 guy. You can't ask for much more than that from a $1.2M/yr 2nd liner.

It was a comment Jim NIll made a few weeks ago when discussing Grigorenko's potential. They see him as a 2nd line talent that would potentially work on Pavel's wing (they were linemates at the '03 World Championships).

I'm going to go out on a limb and say hockey.