Leadzedder

Oh yeah... I'm familiar with our players contracts.... Just makes it harder and more uncomfortable, that's all. But not trying to derail the thread with contract numbers, just throwing out my thoughts. This will be interesting to see where he lands. Kovalchuk aside, I wonder what it would cost to get Max if he ends up not going in the Kovi deal.....

I want Kovalchuk in a wings jersey next year. It's doable. I don't care who gets him, I just want him to hit free agency, and then whatever happens happens. I just want Holland to be able to make an offer if he chooses to. I'm glad to hear that the teams interested aren't being permitted to talk contract. That tells me he's hitting UFA unless he goes somewhere he ends up really liking. I hope Chicago gets him. Depletes the team and has no chance to resign, guaranteed available this summer. Bring on a stacked Hawks team in the playoffs. I'll take our chances. And who's to say we even meet. Probably but not guaranteed. Kind of off topic, kind of not. If Lilja is back, we need to make some room. Here's my plan. Demote Abdelgator and May. Trade off Williams and Leino. Aquire Afinogenov. It's leaves us $5,000 under the cap. 23 man roster (8 D). We don't get better, we don't get worse. But we are cap complient. Having Afinogenov will help for this year and possibly next. He can help sell Detroit to Kovalchuk. If Kovi comes to Detroit, sign his buddy Afinogenov. For next year, it's apparent to me that the 6 mill going to Rafalski should be reinvested. We'll have a number 1 offensive defenseman in Lidstrom and a #2 offensive dman in Kronwall. The only reason he's not now is depth. We need a high end crease clearer to compliment not another #2 offensive dman. This is what it looks like.... Kovalchuk (6.8) Datsyuk (6.7) Afinogenov (2) Franzen (4) Zetterberg (6.1) Bertuzzi (2) Cleary (2.8) Filppula (3) Abdelkader (.8) Draper (1.6) Helm (.9) Eaves (.8) Miller (.8) Lidstrom (3.5) Volchenkov (4) Kronwall (3) Stuart (3.7) Lilja (1) Ericsson (.9) Kindl (.9) Howard (.7) Osgood (1.4) 57.4

I'm Canadian. I live in Halifax. We hosted the World Juniors few years back. Great tourney to have had local. Grigs, Hudler, Flip, Fleishmann. Anyway.... finals... Canada vs. Russia. I cheered for Grigs. Got some weird looks. If there's ever another world war, I'll cheer for my country, but this is hockey. I'm a wings fan. I cheer for wings players and prospects. Not some other team's guys cause they are from my country. If there are no wings guys in the mix, i cheer for Canada by default. As for Flip, looked good tonight.

I too enjoy projecting the roster for a few years out. I got mine all on spreadsheet. It includes Kovalchuk and Bertuzzi. I won't steer this to a Kovalchuk discussion but my thought was the same as Miller Brew... money to spare in your scenario. We can afford a big dollar UFA. With the addition of a sniper and a Stuart type dman, I think we're in great shape in a few years, even without Lids and Rafalski. We have some intriguing forward prospects, it'll be interesting to see how they end up.

1 goal, 2 assists today. On a sidenote, in general, so annoying having to read the bulls*** some people stick in threads. Get a chat room...

K, yeah you're probably right. But here's my thoughts. If we think it takes 9 (cap hit) to get Kovalchuk than we don't need to make any more threads about him coming here. Not even worth considering. That's what a team like atlanta pays to get those players. We don't. s***, neither does Chicago. 5.25/per... wow. Like this isn't like offering him 5 years at 9. This is much better and on a much better team. If you do the 12 year deal which is 78 million. It'll have the Holland special 2 years of garbage at the end. So it's really 7.5 over 10. That's not far off 9. Atlanta for 10 years @ 9 or Detroit for 10 years @ 7.5? Can't speak for the man but I know what I'd do. As for Volchenkov's value.... ok. I wasn't sure. But in the only way we can really fit Volchenkov is getting rid of Rafalski. Cap wise and roster space. A d group of Lids Raf Kron Stu Volchenkov Ericsson is ridonkulous. And unnecessary. As for putting Anton on the 3rd pairing, I was just chucking names down. I'll let Babcock decide that. Anyway, back to his value, if it's 4.5, no problem. Greedy russian forward #3 can be a 2.5 guy. The priority would be Volchenkov, the other guy is just a luxury we can have due to the extra money freed up by Raf leaving.

As for the original question.... I'll give it a go. Detroit wont give up the assets that it would require without knowing he'd sign a contract we could handle. So, this is based on knowing or strongly believing he'll sign. I don't know anything about Atlanta's prospects for this either so.... Also, as I'd like to move Rafalski in my fantasy happenings so including him makes sense. Actually what makes more sense is to move him at the deadline and get a phat return. Ship him east. Help make up for the loss we'd take in aquiring Ilya. The other thing about getting him at teh deadline is capspace. s***... maybe even tagging rule might frig this up, don't know. But we'll havdone all our guys back by deadline. We have negative cap space. We have to move large contracts to make it happen. Rafalski in himself gets it done though. I'm not positive but I think Kovalchuk's hit is 5.8 or 6.2, i forget. Rafalski. Filppula, 1st for Kovalchuk, somethign else good (prospect that the brass likes) But I think moving Rafalski in a seperate deal makes more sense. So... Filppula, Ferraro, 2nd, 1st (from Rafalski trade) Or to stop picking on Rafalski..... Flip, Cleary, 2nd

I'd be willing (and very much want to) to move..... $6.5m a year for 12 years. In the offseason. As for getting him earlier than that (the deadline) that would take lots of assets. So offseason, is so much better. But the truth is if we're fitting that contract in, some moves have to take place anyway. I'm all in support of getting Kovalchuk on Pavels wing. Ok, so thinking ahead to next year, the main things I'm thinking are 1. we need someone to play wing for Pavel. 2. We have too many top 4 dman (in which too many of them are offensive) 3. A net clearing dman is in order. The players I want are Kovalchuk and Volchenkov. I have them at a combined 10 mil. (6.5 & 3.5) ACtually I'll step back for a minute, forget Volchenkov for abit. Here's fitting Kovalchuk in as an offseason signing. FORWARDS Pavel Datsyuk — $6,700,000 * Ilya Kovalchuk — $6,500,000 Henrik Zetterberg — $6,083,333 Johan Franzen — $3,954,545 Valtteri Filppula — $3,000,000 Daniel Cleary — $2,800,000 Kris Draper — $1,583,333 * Todd Bertuzzi — $1,500,000 * Tomas Holmstrom — $1,000,000 * Darren Helm — $900,000 * Justin Abdelkader — $900,000 * Patrick Eaves — $900,000 Ville Leino — $800,000 DEFENSEMEN Brian Rafalski — $6,000,000 * Nicklas Lidstrom — $4,000,000 Brad Stuart — $3,750,000 Niklas Kronwall — $3,000,000 Jonathan Ericsson — $900,000 Jakub Kindl — $883,333 * Doug Janik — $500,000 GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood — $1,416,666 Jimmy Howard — $716,666 BUYOUTS NONE LOST VIA REENTRY WAIVERS NONE CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS ROSTER SIZE 22 SALARY CAP $58,000,000 PAYROLL $57,787,876 BONUSES $0 CAP SPACE $212,124 Ideally what I'd like to see is Rafalski moved. This would enable more needed changes. It's a longshot with the NTC but I think it would be very helpful. He's a great dman. I mean in what he brings. We know his faults. But we have alot of offensive dman. We'd be ok with removing him. And teh 6 mil would be huge. If there's a team out there looking for a elite puckmoving dman to run a powerplay, he's their guy. 6mil for 2 years. That's not bad. We may see it as a negative but if our team had that hole to fill and only had to commit for 2 years, not bad. He'd get a decent return in picks and stuff. If we could move him this is what I'd want. FORWARDS Pavel Datsyuk — $6,700,000 * Ilya Kovalchuk — $6,500,000 Henrik Zetterberg — $6,083,333 Johan Franzen — $3,954,545 * Nikolai Zherdev — $3,500,000 Valtteri Filppula — $3,000,000 Daniel Cleary — $2,800,000 Kris Draper — $1,583,333 * Todd Bertuzzi — $1,500,000 * Darren Helm — $900,000 * Justin Abdelkader — $900,000 * Patrick Eaves — $900,000 Ville Leino — $800,000 DEFENSEMEN * Nicklas Lidstrom — $4,000,000 Brad Stuart — $3,750,000 * Anton Volchenkov — $3,500,000 Niklas Kronwall — $3,000,000 Jonathan Ericsson — $900,000 Jakub Kindl — $883,333 * Doug Janik — $500,000 GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood — $1,416,666 Jimmy Howard — $716,666 BUYOUTS NONE LOST VIA REENTRY WAIVERS NONE CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS ROSTER SIZE 22 SALARY CAP $58,000,000 PAYROLL $57,787,876 BONUSES $0 CAP SPACE $212,124 FORWARDS * Ilya Kovalchuk / Pavel Datsyuk / * Nikolai Zherdev Johan Franzen / Henrik Zetterberg / Daniel Cleary * Todd Bertuzzi / Valtteri Filppula / Ville Leino * Darren Helm / Kris Draper / * Patrick Eaves * Justin Abdelkader ($0.900m) / DEFENSEMEN * Nicklas Lidstrom / Jonathan Ericsson Brad Stuart / Niklas Kronwall * Anton Volchenkov / Jakub Kindl * Doug Janik GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood / Jimmy Howard So... some thoughts on that. The D is still plenty good. Better mix of offense and defensive guys. And as you can see the forward group is downright scary good. I put Zherdev in there but you could go with some others. I just meant a russian winger to compliment the other 2. Zherdev wants to come back and those linemates would entice him. Other names could go in there, not sure who... Afinoganov, ummm. Hudlerov, Probably wouldn't get Frolov at that price. Ummm, not sure. I actually want the Russian 5 back in action. That would give us 4. Lids retires after next year and Markov hits UFA... hmmmm. Ice 5 russians. 5 swedes. Lil friendly competition and ******* awesome hockey to watch.

Well that sucks balls

Yeah, that may work. And would likely save 500k. I just got a feeling Bertuzzi will find his groove. ONly quarter way into the season.

FORWARDS * Ilya Kovalchuk ($6.500m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($6.700m) / * Tomas Holmstrom ($1.000m) Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Daniel Cleary ($2.800m) Ville Leino ($0.800m) / Valtteri Filppula ($3.000m) / * Todd Bertuzzi or Jason Williams ($1.500m) Kris Draper ($1.583m) / * Darren Helm ($0.900m) / * Justin Abdelkader ($0.900m) * Brad May ($0.500m) DEFENSEMEN Brian Rafalski ($6.000m) / * Nicklas Lidstrom ($4.000m) Brad Stuart ($3.750m) / Niklas Kronwall ($3.000m) * Andreas Lilja ($1.000m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($0.900m) Jakub Kindl ($0.883m) GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood ($1.417m) / Jimmy Howard ($0.717m) CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS ROSTER: 22; PAYROLL: $57.888m; CAP ROOM: $0.112m BONUSES: $0.000m Cap goes to 58. Sign Kovalchuk to a 12 year deal for 78 million. 6.5 cap hit. Break it down however. Example 6 years @10. 2 years @ 5. 2 years at 2.5 and 2 years @ 1.5. Again, break it down however. Not that we're allowed to say this out loud but if he only ends up playing 10 years... he'll end up getting 75 over 10 years. 7.5 per. Maybe he could get more somewhere but really.... it's not a bad offer. Plus he gets a decent set up man to play with for the rest of his career. Imagine those 2 pairs for the next decade. Dats and Koval. Zett and Franzen. I see Flip Leino and Helm Ab as pairs as well. The other parts we can move around for the best fit. Forwards would be mint. We'll just draft defencemen with our early picks. The only problem I see with this is what does teh cap do from here? We need to be able to give our young guys raises as they progress through. Reups... Lids 1 year @ 4. Hey, why not? Bert or JWill for 1.5 Whoever they prefer or whichever will go for 1.5. Helm and Ab get .9 a piece. Lilja at 1 assuming he's good to go. If not Lebda, Meech or Kolosov would work for less. Holmstrom will still be useful and I'd guess he'd be happy to go one more at 1. After that Hudler can have his spot playing with the Russians. May or someone that can chuck knuckles for minimum wage.

I should have worded that better as to not upset anyone lol but you get the point... If we had to trade him, Stuart is in a better position now than at years end. Better? , Anyway, my master plan is toast, Schneider is off the market.

Another thought.... Stuart and his NTC.... I believe his ntc is up at years end so we do have some leverage there. "Hey Stuart... give me a list of teams you'd like to be traded to this year or we're sending your ass to Edmonton next year. See how the Mrs likes that." Just saying.

Another thign i noticed by a couple posters... if Hudler ends up back, we have 14 forwards. Some have mentioned Eaves goes down. Umm, nope. Eaves doesn't last more than a minute on waivers. Helm is exempt. It would suck for him but he'd start the year in GR and be the first call up. He'd still get in half the games with injuries and such. I just don't see them throwing away Eaves at league minimum. And just to add to my last post... the 5 and 6 spots for next year would be Kindl and someone. I'd like to say Lilja but who knows what will happen there. Not looking good. For reference, the players that need to stay up on the roster next year or be exposed to waivers are Helm, Abdelkader, Ritola, Ryno, Kindl and Kolosov. So you can pen in Helm, Abdelkader and Kindl on the roster next year. Helm and ABdelkader need new contracts and Kindl has his amount. (.88 for 3 years (sweet signing))

Firstly, I don't think Hudler is coming back this year. I don't think Stuart or Rafalski are going anywhere. I certainly wouldn't move Stuart, he brings somethign we would miss at his price. I'd rather have Stuart than Hudler, and I'm a Hudler fan. Actually I'm a fan of all of our players. (KHL bound or not). But if we have to / want to make cap space.... Rafalski is our guy. I think a major point I have with this is that Ericsson is a stud. Right now he's our # 5. I'm assuming Lids reups next year. Are we really gonna let this guy go another year as #5? I think a year with Lids would be wonderful for him. Lids Ericsson Kronwall Stuart would be an excellent top 4. IF... Hudler is forced back he'll probably get shopped. But personally if it was my decision I'd call Rafalski and i'd start out by saying.... Brian, sorry bud, but we gotta talk... The thign is with Schneider, sure he's not half the player Rafalski is but you swap the 2 and the overall quality of our top 5 really doesn't go down that much considering the cap space gained and the possibilities that opens up. So again, my point is that Ericsson isn't a #5, this year or next.

Yeah eh? But to answer your question, the same drugs I was on when I predicted the arrivals of Bertuzzi (first time) and Hossa. No other side effects other than to spew out bomb rosters / aquisitions that are in the realm of possibility. And to respond to the poster that said that a gm doesn't make moves to accomodate future moves. Come on, you don't think Holland knows Kovalchuk might be available next year. You don't think he's given a second thought to reallocating that 6 mil to Kovalchuk. Not saying he would but that's his job. It's not like he runs a convenience store on his off days while not doing the draft or the trade deadline. I'm quite sure he's familiar with forecasting and asset management.

Anyway, you can disagree with the numbers, but I am confident at a minimum we could fit Kovalchuk long term if we didn't have Rafalski and I think that's my main point.

My suggestion if (I know it'll never happen, ever) Rafalski would waive his NTC. Sign Zherdev for 10 mil for 3 years. 3.33 per. Sign Schneider for 2 mil for a year. Fits easily into this year's cap. Next year.... Sign Kovalchuk to a Zetterberg special. 8 x 8, 6 x2, 1 x2. $78 million over 12 years. 6.5 cap hit. Give Lidstrom 4 mil. Promote our non waiver exempt dudes (Kindl, Kolosov, Abdelkader, Ritola) and bring up Axelsson if he's ready. Lilja or a replacment for a mil. All that for a grand total of 54.25. Done and done

What are you going on about? I'd much prefer Rafalski then Schneider. I'm not dumb. I like Rafalski, fits teh team very well. But if you're gonna talk about trimming salary, he's a sensible place to look. Currently we have 5 (could argue 6) top 4 defencemen. Ericsson isn't a number 5. Neither are the 4 guys we got above him. So the comparison wasn't Rafalski / Schneider. The comparison is Rafalski / Kovalchuk. I choose Kovalchuk. Schneider just happens to be a great way to ease some of the pain this year for pennies compared. You with me?

Convince Rafalski to waive his no trade clause. Sign Schneider to 2 mil. Free up 4 mil. Welcome back Hudler or even better sign Zherdev to 10 mil for 3 years. With the freed up space next year, reinvest into a fella named Ilya. Kovalchuk Datsyuk Zherdev Franzen Zetterberg Axelsson Leino Filppula Cleary Abdelkader Helm Draper I admit... it gives me wood.

2009-2010 Detroit Red Wings PLAYER BONUS CAP HIT FORWARDS Pavel Datsyuk — $6,700,000 Henrik Zetterberg — $6,083,333 Johan Franzen — $3,954,545 Valtteri Filppula — $3,000,000 Daniel Cleary — $2,800,000 Tomas Holmstrom — $2,250,000 Kris Draper — $1,583,333 * Mats Sundin — $1,500,000 * Jason Williams — $1,250,000 * Mike Grier — $1,000,000 Kirk Maltby — $883,333 Ville Leino — $800,000 Darren Helm — $599,444 DEFENSEMEN Nicklas Lidstrom — $7,450,000 Brian Rafalski — $6,000,000 Brad Stuart — $3,750,000 Niklas Kronwall — $3,000,000 Jonathan Ericsson — $900,000 Brett Lebda — $650,000 Derek Meech — $483,333 GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood — $1,416,666 Jimmy Howard — $716,666 BUYOUTS NONE LOST VIA REENTRY WAIVERS NONE CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS ROSTER SIZE 22 SALARY CAP $56,800,000 PAYROLL $56,770,653 BONUSES $0 CAP SPACE $29,347 Assuming Lilja is done, is that doable? I don't think it's overly unrealistic. Mad tight to the cap but under. It would certainly answer the depth question. Worst case scenario is alter the numbers abit and build a bonus into Sundin's contract. Hate to frig with next year's cap but could grease him abit like that. Maybe a cup winning bonus. Holmstrom Datsyuk Zetterberg Sundin Filppula Franzen Leino Helm Cleary Williams Draper Grier Maltby Lidstrom Rafalski Kronwall Stuart Ericsson Lebda Meech Osgood Howard

You think Grier will get 1.5 plus? Cool, I honestly wasn't sure what it would take, thanks for the clarification Williams, demand 2.5? lol, yeah ok, then he's gone to the KHL. And Sundin. He may demand 3 - 3.5 to play in Atlanta but if he decides he wants to play for the wings, it won't be a decision based on financial gain. It's like a game of musical chairs... not all these guys will get market value. Regardless of my ridiculous amounts, at a minimum we can get 2 of these guys. And for the record, I had Hossa at 5.8 and Hudler at 2.9

Glad I could amuse you. He made 10 last year did he? Are you sure? I wonder how many teams kept aside 4-5 million to sign Sundin? How much you figure he'll sign for?

2009-2010 Detroit Red Wings FORWARDS Pavel Datsyuk $6,700,000 Henrik Zetterberg $6,083,333 Johan Franzen $3,954,545 Valtteri Filppula $3,000,000 Daniel Cleary $2,800,000 Tomas Holmstrom $2,250,000 Kris Draper $1,583,333 * Mikael Samuelsson $1,400,000 * Chris Neil $1,400,000 * Ville Leino $1,000,000 Kirk Maltby $883,333 Darren Helm $599,444 DEFENSEMEN Nicklas Lidstrom $7,450,000 Brian Rafalaski $6,000,000 Brad Stuart $3,750,000 Niklas Kronwall $3,000,000 Andreas Lilja $1,250,000 Jonathan Ericsson $900,000 Brett Lebda $650,000 GOALTENDERS Chris Osgood $1,416,666 Jimmy Howard $716,666 BUYOUTS NONE LOST VIA REENTRY WAIVERS NONE CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (including bonuses) ROSTER SIZE 21 SALARY CAP $56,800,000 PAYROLL $56,787,320 BONUS MONEY (ESTIMATED) (0% of cap) $0 CAP ROOM $12,680 CAP ROOM PER OPEN SPOT $6,340 It's plenty tight up against the cap but i'm only in charge of making the roster, not managing it. Personally, I don't feel we need 5 top 4 defensemen but I doubt Rafalski or Stuart get moved. I think there would be a good way to save bucks to replace one of them with Ohlund. I'd be ok with losing one of Draper, Maltby or Holmstrom, but again, I doubt it happens. Here's the lines. Franzen Zetterberg Samuelson Holmstrom Datsyuk Cleary Leino Filppula Draper Neil Helm Maltby D is the D, Goalies are the goalies, and Lebda is the extra. Maybe Meech makes more sense, but I prefer Lebda. This is assuming Lilja is good to go. If he isn't, this gives us room to carry an extra forward... whoever. If I had it my way, we'd trade Rafalski for picks / prospects. We'd pass on Samuelson. We'd sign Hossa for 4.7 and Ohlund for 2.8. Money works even. I'd just prefer Hossa and Ohlund over Rafalski and Samuelson. Lines Holmstrom Zetterberg Datsyuk Franzen Filppula Hossa Leino Helm Cleary Neil Draper Maltby Ohlund takes Rafalski's spot Regardless of either option, we should be able to get some bonus picks out of whatever transpires. Hossa's rights... 3rd? Hudler's RFA compensation... 2nd? 1st and 3rd? Rafalski trade... should land a 1st, he'd fetch us some good assets. That's why I'd really like it go the way of the second option. Having that lineup with the possibility of 2 bonus first round picks. That would be huge, unrealistic, but huge. Damn that NTC.