Grind Line 33

They just said Shanny's awake and alert and the hospital and can move everything. So that's good news, at least.

Wow, I think some of you are reading way too much into his comments. I've heard plenty of players say it's a tough day when they're traded. They make friends on a team. They get used to the city. Very few players would actually want to have to move on a couple days (if that) notice in the middle of the season. Being traded is tough no matter how bad the team is you're leaving and how good the team is that you're going to. I think he was just being respectful of the Flyers organization. He certainly didn't think when he signed with them two years ago that it was going to end up like this. That's disappointing and that's all I think he meant by it. Once he arrives in Nashville, I'm sure he'll be focused on helping his new team. Afterall, he had to agree to the trade. He has to be feeling fairly good about ending up there or it wouldn't have happened. I'm not happy about him ending up in Nashville and I hope it backfires on the Predators. But there was nothing wrong with Forsberg's comments and I don't think they're any indication of impending trouble.

Chicago, I think.

I think it's a horrible idea and couldn't disagree more strongly. I won't flame you, but I don't agree with a single one of your points. First, Ilitch would not get most of the money from jersey sales. The league would. And he doesn't need to sell jerseys to make money. A new arena will be needed relatively soon, I agree, but saying they should sell jerseys to pay for it is like saying someone should have a yard sale to pay to go to med school. Not to mention Ilitch has said repeatedly that the Wings will never have even a third jersey as long as he owns the team. So I'm certain he wouldn't fathom touching the regular jersey design. Plus, I think about half of Wings' fans would be so furious if they changed the jersey dramatically that they would likely refuse to buy the new ones. I think the majority of the Wings' fan base loves the Winged Wheel and the tradition behind it. So what if it's old? It's classic. Some people don't know what the logo is? So what? What's a Red Wing? Why don't we just change the team name while we're at it? (edited to add, I posted this before reading NN's post... and ew, I really hope you weren't being serious? I just can't go along with throwing away 80+ years of history.). And Detroit is always going to be the Motor City, no matter what difficulties some of the companies are facing now. You suggested a new logo with "something more modern that reflects Detroit"... and just what would that be?

And of course there's loads to respect about your post.

Thing is, you can't really hear the upper bowl/standing room folks on TV all the time. You have to get a good majoritiy of the arena going for it to be clearly heard on TV and with the lower bowl nearly empty or nearly comatose for most games, that doesn't happen nearly often enough. What hockey4life doesn't understand is having a team that is so successful that having lower bowl tickets to their arena has become a status thing that is used by major corporations to woo important clients who couldn't really care less about seeing the Red Wings game, only that being seen at Joe Louis Arena is the thing to do in Detroit.

The fans at the Joe are pathetic? Tell us something we don't know. Unfortunately for the true Wings fans, one side effect of our team's long term success is that corporations have bought up pretty much the entire lower bowl in season tickets and don't use them when they don't have some VIP to entertain. Then when they do use them, they show up fashionably late, spend most of the game in the Olympia Club, and then leave early. The crowds in standing room and the upper bowl are much better. Don't judge the entirety of the Red Wings' fan base on the mere 20,066 people who are fortunate enough (even when most don't realize it) to actually have tickets to a game. How about the 1.2 million who have turned out for the last two Cup parades if you want some chanting. Some Wings fans are bandwagoners, agreed. But you're kidding yourself if you think some Preds fans aren't either. Every team has 'em.

Wow... the behavior of some Wings fans in this thread has made me regret voting for LGW on FanZone and stating how welcoming we were to other fans as a reason. Don't I look foolish.

I do understand. I usually stay out of the goalie stuff completely and I made about two comments so far and I've apparently already been labeled an Ozzie-supporter by Manny>Ozzie. Some people are obviously unable to see any shades of grey/middle groud/whatever you want to call it. I think I'll get out now before I stoop to a level I'll later regret in dealing with the previously mentioned people.

Well I have one more word for you then, because I am sure that you act like 1998 was yesterday.....8 YEARS AGO!!!! I'm no Ozzie fan. I wasn't sorry to see him go and I was less than enthused when he returned. But I don't hate him either. He and Manny are each capable of playing outstanding games and streaks of games. If you bothered to read any of my previous posts you would notice I said only a couple pages ago that I am pretty much neutral on this whole goalie thing. I just want whoever is going to play well in the net. Manny is not playing well right now, IMO. Note I said I would love to see him go on another tear. I just don't think he's showing any sign of being ready to go on a hot streak as his confidence seems way down. I think that probably has to do with his knee.

Are we not allowed to talk about how the goalie played in the game in the game day thread?

I have three words for that. "Three months ago." I'd absolutley love to see Manny go on another tear, but I don't think he's playing with half the confidence now that he had back then.

Someone asked if Babcock has said anything about goaltending postgame... I was listening to 1270 with half an ear. What I heard him say was goaltending is certainly part of "it" and there are 6 guys on the ice at all times. Then he stopped and qualified that with "well, not tonight." But then he just went on to say that when you're facing a good goalie that you can't make him look better than he is. I guess basically saying he didn't think the Wings faught for the ice in front of Nashville's net enough. I didn't hear him say anything specifically addressing Legace's play or about who will play Thursday. I think he said they're taking a day off tomorrow, but don't quote me on that. I was only half listening. Did anyone else hear that? It isn't the decision I would make in his shoes. But he said something about recharging mentally.

Not now, you. We're arguing over which one of our goaltenders sucks more.

I'll admit, I only saw the last half of the game because I had a night class, but I didn't think everyone played like crap. I thought the Maltby-Draper-Franzen line did fine. Of course they had great chances that they didn't score on... like always. But the PK did well. So add Cleary to the "didn't suck" column for the evening. But three penalties on Schneider? I'll say the same thing I've said about Lang... scoring a 5 on 3 goal does not make up for putting your team down a man over and over again. Shorthanded breakaway for the Preds? Not acceptable. Bring on Osgood. I am pretty much neutral on the whole goalie situation but Manny is playing with zero confidence right now. He needed to come up with a big save on at least one of those breakaways and he didn't. I still believe you can never really fault a goalie for giving up a breakaway goal, but sometimes a big save is really needed and Manny shows no indication right now that he will be coming up with one anytime soon. I knew halfway through the third that it was going to be an OT loss, just kind of a gut feeling. The one point keeps the night from being a complete fiasco, but I better not hear Babcock saying how they deserved to win this one again like he did last night.

Okay... I looked. Now I'm logging off to go wrap presents and get a headache from too much sugar by decorating cookies (gotta lick the extra frosting off your fingers!). Happy Holidays!

WindsorPlaya, this comment was completely uncalled for. I have not been insulting to you in any way in my responses. I have not said you were crazy for this idea as some others have in this thread. Yet you singled me out for a crass comment when all I have done is argued my point of view as rationally as I could. If you don't agree with me, fine. We can agree to disagree. But making comments like that are completely unnecessary. If you're tired of stating your case in a well-mannered fashion, fine. We'll just stop this conversation.

Well, at least you realize you're dreaming.

I'd take that trade. It would provide us with a big winger and a good defenseman, both of which we need, and would free up a permanent spot at center for Hank. Sure, I'd hate to see Homer go, but someone else can stand in front of the net on the PP and that's really the only thing he does exceptionally well. No one would probably do it quite as well as him, but that role is replacable. I don't think cap would be an issue. We'd be ditching $5.168 million and taking on $5.9 million but we have a little wiggle room because of Fischer's salary. The math would be tight but I think it would be possible.

That I could get on board with. Especially seeing as it would clear up a little cap space.

Where were they? How about even on +/- for the night? Which is far more than you can say for Holmstrom (-1), Samuelsson (-2), Williams (-3), and Zetterberg (-4). Again, are you watching the games or are you just staring at the stat sheets? By your fixation on points, it seems like stats are all you're looking at. Take a good look at that line in action in recent games and forget about the points for a moment. You can't tell me that isn't a line that is playing well. Intimidating how? Offensively, maybe. Defensively? Not by a long shot. I can't picture opposing coaches telling their young stars "When you see Allison's line come on, get off the ice" the way they do with Draper. When you score 6 goals and lose a game the problem is not the offense. Not saying he is. But he is not what the Wings need right now (a physical defenseman or a scoring winger). So you would have our third line center get better offensively (which the team doesn't really need), worse defensively (which the team needs to improve at instead), and cost the team $3 million instead of $2.2 million. Does not sound appealing to me.

I believe bonuses count against the cap going forward. His cap number for their salary consideration this season is the base $1.5 million. Then if f they have to pay him $1.5 million in bonuses he gets the money this year but it comes out of next season's cap number. But I may be mistaken.

Yes, they do have other penalty killers who have done well but you can't just replace chemistry like Maltby and Draper have. Also, Draper eats up more minutes short-handed than any other forward on the team. While other guys can get the job done I would bet good money that if you put a lot of them out there for as many minutes as Draper takes currently that the PK percentage would suffer. Have you watched the last 3 or 4 games? I might have agreed with you to a point earlier this year (he did take a lot longer to adjust than I thought he would) but he has really gotten it going in the last few games. He should only make $1.5 million. We're talking about a guy who hadn't played since early in the 2002-03 season. Toronto took something of a gamble on him and so far it's paying off. But he's an offensive center so he's doing what he's supposed to do by scoring goals. Who would you suggest moving from one of the top 2 lines to the checking line to make room for Allison in a scoring role? Or you're suggesting he center the checking line? No reason at all to make that move. He would be at least two significant steps down from Draper defensively. That is certainly not worth a differene of only $628,000. Allison is big but he doesn't play a big man's game. And he may very well be one hard hit away from leaving the game for good with his concussion history. And again, have you watched the last 3 or 4 games? The Maltby/Draper/Franzen line has dominated the play every time they've been on the ice. The scoring will come if they keep playing that way, which they should as long as Babcock leaves them alone and lets them stay together. Well, trading a center for a center doesn't help their surplus at all. And Draper is far better at center than on the wing. I'm sure he would help their PK. He'd help anybody's. But losing him would hurt the Wings' PK more than gaining Allison would help the Wings' offense, I think. Especially if you figure Allison would play 3rd line minutes straight up (no PK or PP time). Draper is from TO, yes, but his wife and children live with him here. Always have. Plus, Draper was asked in 2004 when he re-signed with Detroit why he didn't sign "at home". He replied that he did sign at home. He considers Detroit his home now because he's been here for more than 10 years, got married here, became a father here, and so on. According to him, Toronto is just his summer home now. Indeed, I think it would impact it quite adversely. I'm sure the people who aren't happy with Draper's play and salary would consider this a pro as well as those who are hollering so loudly for a youth movement. However, I think this would be one of the biggest knocks against this sort of trade. Draper is locked up for two more seasons after this one and it's obvious that the Wings wanted it this way. He is a team leader and a lot of the other veteran leaders will be gone after this year or next. Someone from the current team core needs to remain to guide the youngsters in their first few seasons. You also fail to consider the potential ramifactions as far as team chemistry. Draper is an immensely popular guy in the dressing room. He's very vocal and outgoing. He, along with Maltby and Yzerman, are the real heart and soul guys on this team. Trading him away would probably make a lot of the guys very unhappy. Not to mention his no-trade clause. Holland would have to ask him to waive it and that is not going to happen outside of a truly desperate situation. Illitch and Holland are loyal (sometimes to a fault) to the players that have brought the Wings success in the past. Things would have to be looking very grave indeed for the Wings before they would go to one of the most popular guys in the room, a fan favorite, one of the only guys who gives his all every single night and has for them for 10 years, and and ask him to waive his no-trade. Not going to happen.

I believe Eklund just repeats what he hears but he needs to start ignoring whoever he heard this from. Absolutely 0% chance of that happening. The Wings are going with Ozzie and Manny. Ken Holland himself has said so. They don't have the money to be paying a top flight goaltender and there's no way CuJo would play for Detroit again for less than top flight money, especially after the way he was treated by the organization during the Hasek fiasco.