C-TownWing

I don't think there's any way you can take away from his PK work. One thing you don't lose with age is your ability to read the ice. Cheli sees things extremely well with his experience, and he's great at making that quick pass from down low that allows Lids to clear, where other guys frequently try to clear from in deep, which almost always gets picked off at the line. I'd even call him our 2nd best D on the PK, ahead of Rafalski, Kronwall and Lilja. To me, he's worth keeping on the roster as your #6/#7 for that skill alone. Yeah it's extremely specialized, but it's not like we're asking him to play 30 a game here.

I've always felt that every long playoff run is defined by the 2-3 times where you face your mortality, so to speak. Obviously, you have to pass each of these tests to win the Cup. This past year, we got off sort of easy in that regard. Game 5 against the Preds was one. The other two were losing game 5s at home against Dallas and Pittsburgh, then having to win game 6 in a hostile rink to avoid a winner-take-all, anything-can-happen game 7. My point I guess is that no matter how good your team is, you have to go through that stuff, and you don't always come out on top. Even the 2002 team had to face the 0-2 hole against Vancouver and going back to Colorado down 3-2. You could even make an argument for game 3 in the finals. Lose that one and you have to win 3 of 4 against a hungry upstart with all the momentum. Nobody here can honestly say that they knew 2002 was in the bag at all points. All Scotty's saying is that it's freaking hard to pass all those tests two years in a row. I too don't see the big deal.

Exactly. I live for this stuff, love the fact that everyone hates us cause we're so freaking good and only got better this offseason.

That's about where I am...I actually think his 2007-08 regular season was pretty much even with 2006-07, maybe even marginally better...I think because of his age, people are quick to hit the "done" button when he's playing bad, as in the Dallas series, but hey, sometimes it's just a slump. Only time will tell for sure which it is, but I'm willing to give a guy with his resume the chance to prove that it was just a bad couple weeks and nothing more.

Yes. He had a bad playoffs, I won't argue that point, but he's still effective in his role, particularly on the PK. Oh, and he's expressed willingness to be the 7th D if need be, so the idea that he's holding the kids back is BS. If Meech/Ericsson/Quincey beat him out, they'll get the regular minutes on the 3rd pair, plain and simple. And the price is right too. So thumbs up from me, although in the interest of full disclosure, I'll point out that I'm a huge Cheli fan.

Interesting you mention that. Here's what Ritch Winter was up to last time we heard from him, scheming to get ads on goalie jerseys: MLive Blog

It's often used in the context of players taking less to re-up with the team for whom they've been playing, as that city has become his "adopted" hometown. I don't really understand the logic either, it might apply to a guy like Lidstrom at this point, but for some guy who got traded (didn't choose to go there) and played there for 30 games (I'm talking about Hossa if you can't tell), it's a ridiculous statement to make.

Sweet vid...thanks for the reminder of how sick Bure was, too often overlooked by people when talking about all-time greats. Our guy isn't too shabby either!

How does Pittsburgh have the right to crap on ANY other city, as with the nightlife/arena comments? Just enjoying the meltdown from a couple hours away...

Forgot to add my 2 cents to the topic: Phoenix and Florida SUCK. So I'm going to give their fans a little bit of a pass. I believe in supporting your team no matter what, but in reality, it usually doesn't work like that unless you're in Toronto or Montreal. Besides, we have to grow the game, right? I'm surprised nobody's called out the Devils yet. Until this Cup, they were basically co-most successful over the last 15 years with us. And nobody cares about them. It's one thing for a crappy team to not draw, but when it's a team with 3 Cups since 1995? Ouchie.

Second all this...the Jacks were well supported but just had problems at the top. The Barons were a train wreck from day 1. And now with the Monsters (well-run, knows a couple things about marketing), they had a solid first season at the gate despite a crap team that was killed all year by the Avs' injuries. It'll take a while to undo the Barons' attempts to murder hockey here, but it'll get there. As for the NHL, probably not right now. It might have worked 10 years ago, it might work 10 years from now, just not at this moment. Cleveland can support 3 major teams, not 4. So basically, an NHL team would have to come in when the Cavs are weak and back to drawing 8K per in the post-LeBron era and would have to be successful early (Cleveland's a good sports city generally, but the lack of championships has made it very bandwagon-ish in a lot of ways).

This has it about right, Hossa was dangerous pretty much every shift he took. I too ended up making him my focal point, with Crosby second. Fleury basically won game 5, but wasn't that great other than that, right up to when he crapped the eventual Cup winner into his net. I said from the second Pittsburgh got Hossa that it was a good trade if they win the Cup this year, but a bad one if they don't. They didn't win the Cup and now have zilch to show for Army/Christiansen/Esposito. I really don't get where they thought they'd realistically be able to re-sign him. With the cap as it is right now, you can realistically carry 3 huge-money players (for us, Lidstrom, Hossa, Datsyuk right now, Lidstrom, Zetterberg, Datsyuk next year). 4 probably puts you in Lightning hell. I think they have to be a little pissed that they bailed on Malone as early as they did. If they'd known that Hossa was gone in advance, they probably keep Malone. And I don't get the bitterness from their side at all. He's not Sergei Fedorov. They didn't smuggle him from behind the iron curtain, he didn't spend over a decade and win 3 Cups and a handful of indiviudal awards there. He was a rent-a-player. His Wings tenure will end up being longer than his Pens one, and should he leave after this season, Cup or not, I'll say "thanks for giving your best shot at it." We know what the rules are, what's on the table. They should have too. I think that about covers all the subtopics going on here...

I was at a game in I think late Jan./early Feb. of 2004 where Raycroft in his great rookie year with Boston, shut us out. Stopped something like 25 shots in the first period alone, we were ALL OVER them early. Still one of the great single-game goaltending performances I've ever seen in the NHL. I HAVE to think that's still in there somewhere, and a change of scenery might help--if I were to take a chance on a guy, it's him. Not Emery.

I agree...we do have great leadership, but some people are beyond being fixed. First time Lids, Ozzie or whoever tries to be a leader with him, he'll be trying to fight them or something. Leadership can correct some work ethic issues, teach you how to win, things like that. It cannot fix a guy like Ray Emery, period. I'm 100% confident that we'll be fine going in with Osgood-Howard. If there were a decent 2nd goalie candidate out there, I'm not saying I wouldn't be interested, but there's not. Especially not Ray Emery. Verdict: No. Way. In. Hell.

It's an interesting move to say the least. I was under the impression that TB was one of the stronger Sun Belt franchises and didn't need to hire a guy with all of three years of NHL experience 15 years ago for marketing purposes. Maybe Kelly Hrudey will come out of retirement to help with their goaltending issues.

As the guy two above hinted, I think it all depends what you expect out of Ozzie. I don't know if I'm comfortable with Howard starting half of the games just yet, but if you can get 60 starts from Ozzie, then I'm ok with it going in with just Ozzie/Howard. The point here is that we're easing Howard in, not throwing him to the fire.

Surprised there isn't more discussion about this part, particularly as it relates to one Pavel Datsyuk, he of a long-term contract that most would consider team-friendly. Hopefully the IIHF's position cuts the legs off of this in a hurry.

I tend to think that Bettman is unfairly blamed for a LOT of things and tend to defend him from a lot of the "thanks a lot Buttman, you $&!@" kind of stuff that's almost Pavlovian in response to anything negative surrounding the NHL or the Wings. That said, this is absolutely beyond defense. Not so much the league's original position, which I happen to agree with, but their heavy-handed response now. Acting irrationally with an owner/ownership group isn't really the best thing for his job security either.

It's hockey when there's no other hockey. Why fight it? After this and the first couple days of free agency, it's a loooong couple months to camp.

I'll exclude Wings stuff, since it's mostly the obvious stuff already cited. Here's my highly personal non-Wings top 5: Kings over Leafs in the 1993 conference final. I had a friend at the time who was from TO and kind of a prick about the Leafs beating the Wings that year. So I enjoyed it immensely when the Kings turned the tables on his team. Rangers winning the Cup in 1994. I was still in my age of innocence as a fan, when I'd be happy about long droughts ending. Admittedly, I'd probably root against them today. Fun team to watch though. Whalers trade Pronger for Shanahan. At the time, Pronger was sort of looking like a flop, although he had shown flashes of being a douchenozzle. Shanahan was one of my favorite players, so as a fan of the Whale, that was a happy day for me. Game 6, Stars vs. Sabres, 1999. My brother is a Stars fan, and I was rooting against him. We came to blows a couple times before I decided to watch the game upstairs while he stayed downstairs. After Hull's goal/no goal (depending on what side you take), I just went downstairs, said "congratulations," and left. Penguins winning the lottery and drafting Crosby. I like the Pens, and obviously this was a major piece of the resurrection of the franchise.

Little Ball of Hate. Yeah, ok, I know he's an EXTREME longshot at best, but I had to toss him a mention as my favorite Whaler ever, not to mention a former Wing. 500 goals, 1000 points, 2400 PIMs...not an entirely bad career. It's just a shame that he didn't play for high-profile/good teams (Wings, Rangers, even Dallas) until the end of his career.

Exactly. Lest we forget, Datsyuk and Zetterberg were once considered playoff chokers. They must not have had heart then either. Malkin was great until the CFs, my thought it that he just ran out of gas playing that many games. He'll adjust. Actually the whole idea of "Lindros-ing" Malkin has actually grown on me, and grab a buttload of decent to good players and picks. Hey, you never know either...Forsberg actually ended up having a better career than Lindros anyway. But just on Malkin vs. Hossa...all things being equal, I'd keep Malkin because he gives you the ability to run two great scoring lines out there (a line's only as good as its center), where Hossa would just be Crosby's finisher. With Hossa, you run more of a risk of being the new Senators, with all of your good players/cap space playing on the same forward line.

Not even just the Z thing, but the Crosby-Lidstrom thing. Compare/contrast how the Pens did with Crosby hurt vs. how the Wings did with Lidstrom hurt. I too missed the timestamp and almost went off on some of you. Whoops.

Dan Cleary for his badass forechecking. One of the ultimate "doesn't show up on the scoresheet" plays is jamming someone's breakout, especially if you're shorthanded and able to kill time without even possessing the puck. Hank's great at it too obviously, but this is an "underrated" thread. I thought about giving the Lilja and/or Samuelsson answer too, both are better than they get credit for, at least on here. Especially Lilja.

Not exactly the way I felt about it at the time...but being able to laugh about it now kicks serious ass. And so does the video, nice work on that!